So - we have an event this weekend, and - since it's Yavin-themed and there are pretty limited options - I wondered if I might try a full-sized TIE swarm, something I've not used in a long time.

Mandating 8 TIE fighters in a Galactic Empire squad does drop the options down dramatically (no Howlrunner or Iden Versio, for starters), but I can see a few ideas, and would value people's thoughts.

• 8 x Academy Pilots comes to 184 points - not enough for a 9th TIE fighter but enough for a fair handful of upgrades or better pilots. Broadly, my first thoughts are three-fold: an 'offensive' swarm, a 'defensive' swarm and one which is narratively pleasing but probably not all that great in game*
• Offensive Swarm
  • Academy Pilot x 4
  • Black Squadron Ace (Ruthless) x 4
  • The Academy Pilots are the front line, looking to block and trap an opponent to set up range 1 ruthless shots on targets with no defensive tokens. So goes the plan, anyway.
• Defensive Swarm
  • Del Meeko
  • Valen Rudor (Squad Leader)
  • Academy Pilot x 6
  • Much as Baron Von Ineptitude annoys me, he is a nice, cheap way of toughening up a TIE squadron - whoever gets shot at first gets a co-ordinated evade action (or barrel roll action if it can dodge the arc of fire) before subsequent shots can come in. Meeko's ability could be very useful if facing the Millennium Falcon or Y-wings - once a target is damaged, Del Meeko's aura provides a slight toughness boost to the entire squad.
• Narrative Swarm
  • "Night Beast"
  • Obsidian Squadron Pilot x7
  • Obsidian 2 through 9 (since "Howlrunner" is Obsidian Leader) is an appealing concept. Technically, Obsidians might be a benefit - they match initiative with Grey and Blue Squadron, and out-shoot Academy Pilots, but the benefit is pretty minor. Also, this squad has a further 6 points to spend, but I'm not sure what to buy with it. The only real options are Electronic Baffle and Static Discharge Vanes, neither of which sound too amazing.

* Which I kind of feel tempted to take - Yavin is supposed to be a more narrative event, after all - but at the same time I'm irked because so far as I know Obsidian Squadron weren't there, instead being at Bespin (and presumably Hoth)

Ruthless

7 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Ruthless

Yeah. Lacking howlrunner, the Ruthless swarm seems like the simplest to fly (a good thing as I'm very out of practice). It has a detectably better damage potential and doesn't constrain me to fly in any sort of formation. I'm worried I'll chew through my own squad pretty fast, but, hey, that's why the academy class sizes are so large, isn't it?

I do think that the Ruthless swarm will be most straightforward

Even if the tie classic was 22 pts or lower you can't have more then 8 ships in a list.

28 minutes ago, Blademaster72 said:

Even if the tie classic was 22 pts or lower you can't have more then 8 ships in a list.

If it is a casual event and not a tournament more than 8 ships might be permitted if that is how the gaming group set the event up. I'm sure @Magnus Grendel is well aware of the tournament formats' limitations on squad building.

On topic: I'm liking the Ruthless Swarm more than the other two. As a side not, wasn't it Black Squadron (Vader's personal squadron iirc) guarding the Deathstar?

4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

As a side not, wasn't it Black Squadron (Vader's personal squadron iirc) guarding the Deathstar?

It was. My other option (which is marginally less swarmy) is a 7-ship all-black-squadron force - Mauler Mithel, 5 x Black Squadron Aces with Ruthless, and either Wampa or Squad Leader Valen Rudor (Who has apparently replaced Backstabber on Vader's left wing*, given his artwork)

I also wondered about Vader, Mithel, Rudor and "Wampa" as a squad, but that seems a bit short on numbers given that it's 3/4 TIE fighters, and lots of varying abilities and pilot skills for a player getting back into the game after a 6 month hiatus seems like a bad plan.

* Thus making Baron Von Incompetence, appropriately enough, arguably responsible for the destruction of the Death Star by flying into his boss for no good reason.

I'd go with Rudor over Wampa in the 7 ship Black Squadron swarm. Wampa feels like he's going to be a priority target that will get init killed to me. Clutsy as his flying is Rudor's reactive coordinate could very easily keep your other guns on the table long enough to clench the win. You also can get Ruthless on Mithel.

“Mauler” Mithel (32)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Valen Rudor (28)
Squad Leader (4)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

36 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I'd go with Rudor over Wampa in the 7 ship Black Squadron swarm. Wampa feels like he's going to be a priority target that will get init killed to me. Clutsy as his flying is Rudor's reactive coordinate could very easily keep your other guns on the table long enough to clench the win. You also can get Ruthless on Mithel.

“Mauler” Mithel (32)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Black Squadron Ace (26)
Ruthless (1)

Valen Rudor (28)
Squad Leader (4)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Actually, if I took Wampa the idea was Swarm Tactics on Mithel. That means Wampa should get his shot off early enough to actually get to use his charge. Personally I think I prefer the list as shown, though.

One other nice thing is that Rudor is I3, the same as Black Squadron Aces - meaning a 6-TIE block can chop and change their movement and firing order as needed.

Meanwhile Mithel can fly loose on his own, exploiting (if he can) his I5, and act as a flanker.

On 1/10/2019 at 10:11 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

* Thus making Baron Von Incompetence, appropriately enough, arguably responsible for the destruction of the Death Star by flying into his boss for no good reason.

Cigarette fell down, had to pick it up and screwed the steering (lesson: don't smoke while flying)

Seriously though, good luck on your endeavor! I think I couldn't handle 8 ships

I played against 4 academies and 4 BSAs with crack shot the other day... (no glory, I had 2 Delta Defenders and a Scarif Base Pilot)

Was a handful. Main reason being that the Academies didn't die fast enough to clear board space. The Ruthless version might've helped me out a bit there, but the increased damage they put out could've made things harder sooner....

It was a close game because half points on various TIEs added up quite fast. If you're Ruthlessing, you might be helping your opponent that way as well.

Just a thought.

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 10:56 AM, Cuz05 said:

I played against 4 academies and 4 BSAs with crack shot the other day... (no glory, I had 2 Delta Defenders and a Scarif Base Pilot)

Was a handful. Main reason being that the Academies didn't die fast enough to clear board space. The Ruthless version might've helped me out a bit there, but the increased damage they put out could've made things harder sooner....

It was a close game because half points on various TIEs added up quite fast. If you're Ruthlessing, you might be helping your opponent that way as well.

Just a thought.

It does and I did. I ended up using the Mithel/Rudor squad as listed, and gave away quite a lot of half-point kills over the course of the day. That said, if you're taking 6 x copies of Ruthless in a squad, you're clearly not planning on getting your deposit back on the TIE fighter, and most importantly it worked - by a combination of extremely jammy dice, people not appreciating just how brutal an automatic blank-to-hit on spec is, and Rudor's ability turning out to be really good in practice, I somehow managed to win.

Rather satisfyingly, the last shot of the last game was Mauler Mithel destroying the last surviving Black Squadron Ace with damage from Ruthless to add an extra hit to his attack roll on Luke, which killed him after he only rolled a single evade. That kind of summed up the afternoon.

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:45 PM, flooze said:

Cigarette fell down, had to pick it up and screwed the steering (lesson: don't smoke while flying)

But how will Baron Rudor look pretentious and not-at-all-cool if he doesn't?

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It does and I did. I ended up using the Mithel/Rudor squad as listed, and gave away quite a lot of half-point kills over the course of the day. That said, if you're taking 6 x copies of Ruthless in a squad, you're clearly not planning on getting your deposit back on the TIE fighter, and most importantly it worked - by a combination of extremely jammy dice, people not appreciating just how brutal an automatic blank-to-hit on spec is, and Rudor's ability turning out to be really good in practice, I somehow managed to win.

Rather satisfyingly, the last shot of the last game was Mauler Mithel destroying the last surviving Black Squadron Ace with damage from Ruthless to add an extra hit to his attack roll on Luke, which killed him after he only rolled a single evade. That kind of summed up the afternoon.

But how will Baron Rudor look pretentious and not-at-all-cool if he doesn't?

Just remember that, like Biggs, one BSA can (if in the correct position) soak down all of the damage from Ruthless from that Init since they aren't removed till after everyone at that init has fired.

10 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

But how will Baron Rudor look pretentious and not-at-all-cool if he doesn't?

Well that is the problem. Looking cool is not for everyone 😉

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Just remember that, like Biggs, one BSA can (if in the correct position) soak down all of the damage from Ruthless from that Init since they aren't removed till after everyone at that init has fired.

A nice trick - and one I'll have to remember - but I was trying to go for 'lightly on fire' for everyone rather than inflict kills if I didn't have to. Overkill is not a bad plan if someone on 1hp left is in the right spot, though.

1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

A nice trick - and one I'll have to remember - but I was trying to go for 'lightly on fire' for everyone rather than inflict kills if I didn't have to. Overkill is not a bad plan if someone on 1hp left is in the right spot, though.

Yah, read through your write up. Its an option if you need to get that one ship dead asap and it wouldn't kill your chances at winning to loose a 2 die. It also fit beautifully fits the name of the talent. Nothing say Ruthless like an entire squad blasting through one of their own to get to their target.

I've been wanting to ask what Squad Leader on Rudor actually gets you? Other than an action on one of the other TIEs and a stressed Rudor, that is. It seems like it'd be just as beneficial putting some other EPT (pick one to taste) on him.

9 minutes ago, underling said:

I've been wanting to ask what Squad Leader on Rudor actually gets you? Other than an action on one of the other TIEs and a stressed Rudor, that is. It seems like it'd be just as beneficial putting some other EPT (pick one to taste) on him.

That extra action has a very good chance of keeping a ship on the table and firing allowing for the squad to Focus and have the Evade token go where it is needed most.

16 hours ago, underling said:

I've been wanting to ask what Squad Leader on Rudor actually gets you? Other than an action on one of the other TIEs and a stressed Rudor, that is. It seems like it'd be just as beneficial putting some other EPT (pick one to taste) on him.

15 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

That extra action has a very good chance of keeping a ship on the table and firing allowing for the squad to Focus and have the Evade token go where it is needed most.

This. To work through what happens:

• During your standard action, Rudor focuses, just like everyone else.
• Once the engagement phase starts, your opponent shoots at whichever TIE fighter they want to kill (for the sake of argument, "Howlrunner").
• After "Howlrunner" defends at range 1 of Rudor, he gets an action. She will probably survive but is likely to have spent her focus token and maybe taken damage.
• Pick your red co-ordinate action (granted by squad leader) and co-ordinate "Howlrunner" a free action. "Howlrunner" performs an evade action.
• Your opponent wants to continue shooting at "Howlrunner" with the rest of their squad to kill her, but between shot #1 and shot #2, she's suddenly gained an evade token, making shot #2 much less effective.

It's not as powerful as Iden Versio's "make that 4-critical-torpedo-go-away" but it can be done repeatedly on subsequent turns rather than being a one-use , it's cheaper, and if you're so inclined you can field both of them.