9 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

2/2/3 ships and a complete lack of initiatives higher than 4 on your double-reposition ships feels like power creep to you?

A 2/2/3 ship that could be (effectively) 3/3/3 when landed on a rock (if they can take Trick Shot)

Which is why I suspect the stat line. Intentionally landing on a rock could be extremely powerful. Imagine a 2/3/3 stat line with their ability. Being able to intentionally go on a rock could make them turrets that are nearly impossible to hit. I’d imagine that it felt too powerful on a swarm ship when testing.

I could be wrong, but I see it being very powerful… in the right hands.

13 minutes ago, Matanui3 said:

2/2/3 ships and a complete lack of initiatives higher than 4 on your double-reposition ships feels like power creep to you?

The Calculate sharing and the Vulture's ability to utilize, instead of having to avoid, most obstacles worries them I think.

2 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

A 2/2/3 ship that could be (effectively) 3/3/3 when landed on a rock (if they can take Trick Shot)

I'm willing to be wrong, but my gut tells me that Vultures, Tri's and Hyenas won't have access to the Talent slot which should mitigate this.

RE: Pricing of the Beeblebrox:

I'd first thought that the Init 1 pilot probably would be over 40, to prevent 5x lists, but looking again, it only has Calculate and not Focus actions. Given that it's not a full focus, I can kinda see it going 40 or under. I'd expect the other generic (looks like Init 3, probably talented, no clue on whether it's Focus or Calculate), to certainly be over 40.

It's a really interesting ship, points-wise. It has the same action bar as a Starviper, but without bent barrel rolls, the same red dice, and essentially the same hit points. It can give a bit of a sense of how much a green die is worth. Init 3 talented Starviper is 48 points. If the middle-generic Belballub is 41-42, being down a green die, I don't think that's too out-of-line.

Compared to a T-65 X-Wing, the action bar is a good deal better than the S-Foils, at the cost of a hull. The dial is also a little worse. Lack of a 1-straight is always awkward, but it does have two white hard turns (and a 3rd which is red), three non-red banks, and goes up to speed 5. It's blues aren't great for sustained linking, but it doesn't have to give up a red die to link actions like the X-Wing does. If comparing the price of this to a Starviper gives some indication of the value of green dice, comparing this to an X-Wing or Kihraxz gives some sense of the value of linked actions.

I'm also supposing that Impervium Plating is "fairly priced" like the Special Forces Gunner is fairly priced. My gut says that it'd be worth 4-6 points, about what an extra hit point is worth. With Imperv, an Init 3 talented/focus generic Belballub would be better than a Red Vet X-Wing, right? So 44 points or more? Hrm. I'm kind of talking myself into a 3-point Impervium.

• 38 Init 1/Calculate Generic
  • With a 38 point Autopilot generic, that'd bring it to 41, so you couldn't run 5 with Imperv. That kinda makes sense to me.
• 41 Init 3/Focus/Talent Generic
• 44-ish for either non-Grievous Limited pilot
  • This one is a lot squishier, since those aren't easy pilot abilities to price out.
• 46 for Grievous
  • Someone might think this is high, but from his action bar alone, he's basically Kullbee Sperado, and he gets a fairly strong reroll ability, too. With a 3-point Impervium, he'd be 1 point more, 2 points less without. That seems right to me.

9 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

44-ish for either Init 3 Limited pilot

• This one is a lot squishier, since those aren't easy pilot abilities to price out. 

Sear is I2, though I think his/her ability is worth them being at 44pts even with them being I2. I mostly agree on the rest, there isn't enough of a difference between our points of view for me to argue.

Captain Sear:

35 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

• 38 Init 1/Calculate Generic
  • With a 38 point Autopilot generic, that'd bring it to 41, so you couldn't run 5 with Imperv. That kinda makes sense to me.
• 41 Init 3/Focus/Talent Generic
• 44-ish for either Init 3 Limited pilot
  • This one is a lot squishier, since those aren't easy pilot abilities to price out.
• 46 for Grievous
  • Someone might think this is high, but from his action bar alone, he's basically Kullbee Sperado, and he gets a fairly strong reroll ability, too. With a 3-point Impervium, he'd be 1 point more, 2 points less without. That seems right to me.

These overall seem more right than most of the other suggestions in the thread.

I still would take the under before the over, on these.

50 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

• 38 Init 1/Calculate Generic
  • With a 38 point Autopilot generic, that'd bring it to 41, so you couldn't run 5 with Imperv. That kinda makes sense to me.
• 41 Init 3/Focus/Talent Generic
• 44-ish for either Init 3 Limited pilot
  • This one is a lot squishier, since those aren't easy pilot abilities to price out.
• 46 for Grievous
  • Someone might think this is high, but from his action bar alone, he's basically Kullbee Sperado, and he gets a fairly strong reroll ability, too. With a 3-point Impervium, he'd be 1 point more, 2 points less without. That seems right to me.

This looks pretty close to right for me as well. Though I think Impervium will be more like 5 points than 3.

Same reply to all of @Hiemfire @svelok and @GeneralVryth : Fair enough.

...I still think BB-8 is emulating a certain non-thumb finger in that gif...

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Same reply to all of @Hiemfire @svelok and @GeneralVryth : Fair enough.

Ok, seriously, do people see BB-8 giving a thumbs up or the middle finger. I always thought it was more of a middle finger gesture

Its one of those questions like “why doesn’t jello melt” level of necessity to answer, but that same sort of intense preoccupation for at least 10 minutes

9 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Ok, seriously, do people see BB-8 giving a thumbs up or the middle finger. I always thought it was more of a middle finger gesture

Its one of those questions like “why doesn’t jello melt” level of necessity to answer, but that same sort of intense preoccupation for at least 10 minutes

With the context that that clip is from, both are equally plausible. What you perceive by what BB-8 is doing, thumbs up or flipping the bird, depends on how you perceive the little guy. As a cheerful and fuzzy (personality wise) sidekick, or a smarmy and dependable smart ***.

26 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Ok, seriously, do people see BB-8 giving a thumbs up or the middle finger. I always thought it was more of a middle finger gesture

Its one of those questions like “why doesn’t jello melt” level of necessity to answer, but that same sort of intense preoccupation for at least 10 minutes

From the fact that he went along with Finn and was reacting to Finn's thumbs-up, I always assumed it was a thumbs-up. It honestly never occurred to me that it could be anything else.

34 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Ok,  seriously, do people see BB-8 giving a thumbs up or the mi  dd  le fin  ger. I always thought it was more of a middle finger gestu  re 

I find it best to assume astromechs are being vulgar (and thus bleeped out).

9 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

I find it best to assume astromechs are being vulgar (and thus bleeped out).

Well 3PO did once tell R2 to “watch your language” so anything’s possible...

BB-8 is a lovely puppy of a droid, he's totally giving a thumbs up.

R2-D2 and Chopper? Those are some foul-mouthed droids, though. Luke criticized R2 for cussing on a sacred island, for example.

15 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

RE: Pricing of the Beeblebrox:

I'd first thought that the Init 1 pilot probably would be over 40, to prevent 5x lists, but looking again, it only has Calculate and not Focus actions. Given that it's not a full focus, I can kinda see it going 40 or under. I'd expect the other generic (looks like Init 3, probably talented, no clue on whether it's Focus or Calculate), to certainly be over 40.

It's a really interesting ship, points-wise. It has the same action bar as a Starviper, but without bent barrel rolls, the same red dice, and essentially the same hit points. It can give a bit of a sense of how much a green die is worth. Init 3 talented Starviper is 48 points. If the middle-generic Belballub is 41-42, being down a green die, I don't think that's too out-of-line.

Compared to a T-65 X-Wing, the action bar is a good deal better than the S-Foils, at the cost of a hull. The dial is also a little worse. Lack of a 1-straight is always awkward, but it does have two white hard turns (and a 3rd which is red), three non-red banks, and goes up to speed 5. It's blues aren't great for sustained linking, but it doesn't have to give up a red die to link actions like the X-Wing does. If comparing the price of this to a Starviper gives some indication of the value of green dice, comparing this to an X-Wing or Kihraxz gives some sense of the value of linked actions.

I'm also supposing that Impervium Plating is "fairly priced" like the Special Forces Gunner is fairly priced. My gut says that it'd be worth 4-6 points, about what an extra hit point is worth. With Imperv, an Init 3 talented/focus generic Belballub would be better than a Red Vet X-Wing, right? So 44 points or more? Hrm. I'm kind of talking myself into a 3-point Impervium.

• 38 Init 1/Calculate Generic
  • With a 38 point Autopilot generic, that'd bring it to 41, so you couldn't run 5 with Imperv. That kinda makes sense to me.
• 41 Init 3/Focus/Talent Generic
• 44-ish for either non-Grievous Limited pilot
  • This one is a lot squishier, since those aren't easy pilot abilities to price out.
• 46 for Grievous
  • Someone might think this is high, but from his action bar alone, he's basically Kullbee Sperado, and he gets a fairly strong reroll ability, too. With a 3-point Impervium, he'd be 1 point more, 2 points less without. That seems right to me.

Pretty close overall from what I'm thinking, but I'd probably adjust the i1 down to 36. I'm not sure if 5 of these with Impervium shouldn't be allowed since they only have a calculate and the blues to clear the stress from linked actions like you mentioned aren't good. Granted I also think Impervium is in that 4-6 pt range so that still might not allow 5 in a list if it's higher than 4 anyway. Another wrench is that we don't know if the i3 generic isn't also a droid pilot that has calculate either, but since we don't know that card, i'd just put it in the range of 38 - 41. Tambor and Sear are probably 41 - 43 so just a bit less, more likely Sear is the higher of the 2 because his wide spread crack shot ability for his friendly ships is strong and not just for his benefit.

Grievous is the difficult one of this group because while his ability is good, the i4 does hurt getting his ability to proc. Graz at 47 seems like an potential comparison point. In terms of stats Graz has 1 more hull and a shield to hull trade. Dials between the Kihraxz and Belbullab have similarities, but the Kihraxz's is a bit better with a 3rd turn around and 1 bank blues. Between their abilities when each of them are active Grievous provides better 3 dice consistency while Graz has a higher ceiling from the extra dice. To get those abilities active, Grievous can't be in any firing arc of his target. So if it's a rear or turret arc, his ability is turned off. Graz on the other hand has to be in the back half of his target's base to add the die. Although Graz does get the additional defense die along with the offensive die. I don't think there's a clear cut "better" ability between the two. The final piece to the puzzle to consider is the slots available. Obviously we don't know, but we can speculate. The Belbullab is unlikely to have missiles or torps according to ship cross section images. It's also unlikely to have 3 mod slots, but I guess could have 2 if they felt like it (assume 1 for now). Illicit I'm going to assume isn't part of the Belbullab either. What the Belbullab is going to have is the Tactical Relay slot, which for the Separatists could be a high value or the upgrade cards themselves might just be higher cost. With all that in consideration, I'd say Graz is potentially still a few points too expensive anyway, which leads me to put Grievous around 44-46. I'd hope 46 is the highest he'll be.

On 1/10/2019 at 10:45 AM, Hiemfire said:

Sear is I2, though I think his/her ability is worth them being at 44pts even with them being I2. I mostly agree on the rest, there isn't enough of a difference between our points of view for me to argue.

Captain Sear:

Sear looks like the linchpin for an effective vulture swarm.

I wonder if they will tweak the tournament rules to allow 9 ships.

9 minutes ago, aswitcher said:

Sear looks like the linchpin for an effective vulture swarm.

I wonder if they will tweak the tournament rules to allow 9 ships.

Vultures are probably the reason the upper limit on ships in a squad is 8.

12 minutes ago, aswitcher said:

Sear looks like the linchpin for an effective vulture swarm.

I wonder if they will tweak the tournament rules to allow 9 ships.

resuable crackshot on a swarm and you want a 9th ship?

actually if u have crackshop on that ship already you get potential to double crackhot in the same attack. yikes.

What people seems to forget talking about vultures are energy-shell charges, and the fact vultures will have missile slot. Not sure on pricing, but vulture with energy shell will be cheaper compared to Tie Bomber with barrage. You will most likely be able to fit 5 Shell vultures + Sear into list, and that is lots of red coming your way in alpha.

30 minutes ago, Redblock said:

What people seems to forget talking about vultures are energy-shell charges, and the fact vultures will have missile slot. Not sure on pricing, but vulture with energy shell will be cheaper compared to Tie Bomber with barrage. You will most likely be able to fit 5 Shell vultures + Sear into list, and that is lots of red coming your way in alpha.

true. 3 dice proton torp that can be recharged as an action. stripping calculate tokens and jamming is hard to pull off unless ur using old teroch.

energy shell charges will be cheap i think... 3-5pts

I wonder why Energy Shells got 'action reload this' rather than just... giving a white reload...

This implies pretty heavily that something in CIS might have torp/device, torp/missile, or multiple torps. Which is interesting.

17 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

BB-8 is a lovely puppy of a droid, he's totally giving a thumbs up.

R2-D2 and Chopper? Those are some foul-mouthed droids, though. Luke criticized R2 for cussing on a sacred island, for example.

And C1-10P? Definitely.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I wonder why Energy Shells got 'action reload this' rather than just... giving a white reload...

This implies pretty heavily that something in CIS might have torp/device, torp/missile, or multiple torps. Which is interesting.

Or, you know, the designer of the energy shells forgot you could add actions to upgrades.

E: or forgot that 'reload' is 'take a disarm token to regain a charge' rather than just 'regain a charge'.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I wonder why Energy Shells got 'action reload this' rather than just... giving a white reload...

This implies pretty heavily that something in CIS might have torp/device, torp/missile, or multiple torps. Which is interesting.

28 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Or, you know, the designer of the energy shells forgot you could add actions to upgrades.

E: or forgot that 'reload' is 'take a disarm token to regain a charge' rather than just 'regain a charge'.

A reload action would let you reload other stuff too. They could never give a CIS ship both a missile and a torp/device slot without allowing it access to reload. It would just be extremely design limiting for no particular reason.