Hi all, searched around first but couldn't find this one.

I know abilities that say "may" let you have the option of doing it or not, but does this apply to general triggers like "Reap:" and such?

Wondering because of Kindrith Longshot:

Elusive/Skirmish

Reap: Deal 2 Damage to a creature

Does she fire an arrow into the air and hit herself if she's alone on the board? I've been playing it as such with the current rules. Terribly self-destructive young lady...

I believe you are playing it correctly.

You think she's self destructive, you should see the Horseman of Famine go out there alone...(not saying I have, I've just heard stories)

The 12 power Brobnar dragon has a similar effect. On Fight or Reap, you gain an aember and deal 5 damage to a creature. If he's alone on the table, he starts using fire breath on himself.

The Horseman are an interesting case. If possible, when playing against the Horsemen, I try not to play creatures unless I need to. The Horsemen need enemy creatures to thrive.

If you can, you must. I had someone disconnect online after playing a Turn 1 Smaaash...

10 minutes ago, Rabbitball said:

If you can, you must. I had someone disconnect online after playing a Turn 1 Smaaash…

really don't understand why that ability wasn't worded to say another creature.

Just now, Mace Windu said:

really don't understand why that ability wasn't worded to say another creature.

Magic has now placed ending "feel bad" plays as a design consideration. The earliest incarnations of Sliver creatures gave all Slivers (friendly and enemy) their bonus; the most recent versions only give friendly Slivers their bonus. But just as Keyforge is built to end the need for acquiring the cards for a perfect deck, so it also is designed to reward people for knowing what cards do. If you carelessly drop a Smaaash as your Turn 1 play going first, you suffer the consequences by having him stun himself. If you reap with a Bigtwig when there are no enemy creatures, figure out which friendly creature you're stunning. If you don't want the "feel bad" play, don't make it. If that means you can't reap with a creature this turn, deal with it. Preventing that reap may be part of the plan the opponent had all along; why deny them their tactical reward?

3 minutes ago, Rabbitball said:

Magic has now placed ending "feel bad" plays as a design consideration. The earliest incarnations of Sliver creatures gave all Slivers (friendly and enemy) their bonus; the most recent versions only give friendly Slivers their bonus. But just as Keyforge is built to end the need for acquiring the cards for a perfect deck, so it also is designed to reward people for knowing what cards do. If you carelessly drop a Smaaash as your Turn 1 play going first, you suffer the consequences by having him stun himself. If you reap with a Bigtwig when there are no enemy creatures, figure out which friendly creature you're stunning. If you don't want the "feel bad" play, don't make it. If that means you can't reap with a creature this turn, deal with it. Preventing that reap may be part of the plan the opponent had all along; why deny them their tactical reward?

Oh im well versed in the ways of magic having played for over 20 years, my point was that SMAAAAASH's ability isn't so insanely amazing that it needs a drawback of hitting himself or a friendly creature if your opponent doesn't have any creatures out.

12 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

Oh im well versed in the ways of magic having played for over 20 years, my point was that SMAAAAASH's ability isn't so insanely amazing that it needs a drawback of hitting himself or a friendly creature if your opponent doesn't have any creatures out.

No, it doesn't need it. I can see most of the things that have a potential feel bad would have been just fine had they been worded to prevent accidental misfire. To me, the fact that they weren't made that way is a signal from either the designer or the publisher (possibly both) that the Crucible is a rough world where you need to be on your toes and running your deck on autopilot can sometimes get you in trouble.

2 hours ago, Rabbitball said:

No, it doesn't need it. I can see most of the things that have a potential feel bad would have been just fine had they been worded to prevent accidental misfire. To me, the fact that they weren't made that way is a signal from either the designer or the publisher (possibly both) that the Crucible is a rough world where you need to be on your toes and running your deck on autopilot can sometimes get you in trouble.

Not there is a ton of theme surrounding this card game in the first place, but creatures stunning themselves when coming into play has no thematic sense at all...

2 hours ago, msieder said:

Not there is a ton of theme surrounding this card game in the first place, but creatures stunning themselves when coming into play has no thematic sense at all...

Well, Smaaash! gets so excited to get out there and fight because he knows his presence is stunning. He understands that when he approaches the battlefield someone will freeze up at the very sight of him. He pledges himself to Archons knowing they will take full advantage of this.

So when his Archon calls on him he knows it's tilly time. He rushes out to the battlefield only to find it is empty. This doesn't make any sense. He is BROBNAR! He was born and bred to fight! His very presence is shocking to his opponents. Why would his Archon deploy him when there is no one for him to wow? He is stunned that his Archon would do this...

Makes sense to me. Lady Maxena is a little tougher to figure out but give me some time...

13 minutes ago, TheSpitfired said:

Well, Smaaash! gets so excited to get out there and fight because he knows his presence is stunning. He understands that when he approaches the battlefield someone will freeze up at the very sight of him. He pledges himself to Archons knowing they will take full advantage of this.

So when his Archon calls on him he knows it's tilly time. He rushes out to the battlefield only to find it is empty. This doesn't make any sense. He is BROBNAR! He was born and bred to fight! His very presence is shocking to his opponents. Why would his Archon deploy him when there is no one for him to wow? He is stunned that his Archon would do this...

Makes sense to me. Lady Maxena is a little tougher to figure out but give me some time...

FFG needs to employ you to write flavor text

You are too kind. You might not think so when you hear my Lady Maxena explanation...

6 hours ago, TheSpitfired said:

Well, Smaaash! gets so excited to get out there and fight because he knows his presence is stunning. He understands that when he approaches the battlefield someone will freeze up at the very sight of him. He pledges himself to Archons knowing they will take full advantage of this.

So when his Archon calls on him he knows it's tilly time. He rushes out to the battlefield only to find it is empty. This doesn't make any sense. He is BROBNAR! He was born and bred to fight! His very presence is shocking to his opponents. Why would his Archon deploy him when there is no one for him to wow? He is stunned that his Archon would do this...

Makes sense to me. Lady Maxena is a little tougher to figure out but give me some time...

This is exactly correct. Smaaash! must smaaash something! This game is extremely thematic.

7 hours ago, TheSpitfired said:

Well, Smaaash! gets so excited to get out there and fight because he knows his presence is stunning. He understands that when he approaches the battlefield someone will freeze up at the very sight of him. He pledges himself to Archons knowing they will take full advantage of this.

So when his Archon calls on him he knows it's tilly time. He rushes out to the battlefield only to find it is empty. This doesn't make any sense. He is BROBNAR! He was born and bred to fight! His very presence is shocking to his opponents. Why would his Archon deploy him when there is no one for him to wow? He is stunned that his Archon would do this...

Makes sense to me. Lady Maxena is a little tougher to figure out but give me some time...

Pretty much this. In the Warhammer 40k hobby, we have a saying. Forge the Narrative. In other words, anyone with half a bit of imagination should be able to come up with an explanation every time someone says 'but that doesn't make sense'.

15 hours ago, KrisWall said:

Pretty much this. In the Warhammer 40k hobby, we have a saying. Forge the Narrative. In other words, anyone with half a bit of imagination should be able to come up with an explanation every time someone says 'but that doesn't make sense'.

Maybe I was the only one who caught the sarcasm in this explanation?

6 hours ago, msieder said:

Maybe I was the only one who caught the sarcasm in this explanation?

I wasn't being sarcastic. I legit believe that the majority of these situations have believable in universe explanations.

I also don't think the comment I was responding to was sarcastic. A little tongue in cheek, maybe.

16 hours ago, KrisWall said:

I wasn't being sarcastic. I legit believe that the majority of these situations have believable in universe explanations.

I also don't think the comment I was responding to was sarcastic. A little tongue in cheek, maybe.

I was referring to the explanation of Smaaash stunning itself as being exactly as you said "tongue in cheek". Because it wasnt intended to make the fact smaash stuns himself "make sense". It doesnt make sense, it is actually pretty ridiculous.

18 hours ago, msieder said:

I was referring to the explanation of Smaaash stunning itself as being exactly as you said "tongue in cheek". Because it wasnt intended to make the fact smaash stuns himself "make sense". It doesnt make sense, it is actually pretty ridiculous.

Maybe he tripped over his electrified hammer when he couldn't find anyone to fry with it??

So Smaaash! can be explained pretty reasonably through being a big dumb oaf who goes barreling in and makes a mistake when there's no enemies to fight.

How do we explain the same thing for Lady Maxena?

Is Lady Maxena a female version of Smaaash! that was recruited by the Sanctum and then given a jetpack?

It's more like, you are the one ordering your creatures to do stuff. If you bring out smash or maxena, you are ordering them to do the action they've been trained to. When you say, ok maxena, it's time to stun something, she's going to look at you funny, but then be compelled to obey.

1 hour ago, CaptainIxidor said:

So Smaaash! can be explained pretty reasonably through being a big dumb oaf who goes barreling in and makes a mistake when there's no enemies to fight.

How do we explain the same thing for Lady Maxena?

Is Lady Maxena a female version of Smaaash! that was recruited by the Sanctum and then given a jetpack?

No, they were both given charged stun weapons that fire upon entering play. If there are enemies around, you can direct the stun beam, but the weapon's effect will fire...

1 minute ago, Rabbitball said:

No, they were both given charged stun weapons that fire upon entering play. If there are enemies around, you can direct the stun beam, but the weapon's effect will fire...

Perhaps they just need to touch something to be 'grounded' No one to touch/stun equals being stunned

2 minutes ago, dpuck1998 said:

Perhaps they just need to touch something to be 'grounded' No one to touch/stun equals being stunned

It hits nearby flesh. If the only nearby flesh is your own... 😏

You ever see a Looney Tunes where the antagonist (Coyote, Elmer Fudd, etc.) goes to swing a blunt weapon at what they think is the main character only to hit an anvil or a rock? The thing that happens after they strike the object is what I picture when Lady Maxena comes in and stuns herself. It's the best I can do.

I mean you could say the same thing, that Lady Maxena thinks so highly of herself that she is just as "stunned" as Smaaash! when she comes out and no one is out there. I wouldn't put it past a Sanctum knight who has proven so well that she is just as good a knight as any male knight out there.

Fun to speculate.

If you think of Sanctum as religious zealots, it all makes sense. As long as there are enemies to distract her, she's great, but without someone to fight, she just starts looking for people on her own side that don't live up to her high standards of purity and honor. And if she's alone, then clearly it's time for her to atone for her own sins with a hair-shirt and maybe some self-flagellation.