1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:Aside from that one dumpster fire thread a couple of weeks ago, we've mostly done okay without them. Mostly.
That feels like MONTHS ago now.
Will this year never end?......
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1 hour ago, Bucknife said:That feels like MONTHS ago now.
Will this year never end?......
It will.
In about 6 months.
Why are people in such a hurry for a points update?
It's not as though there's going to be any live events for the foreseeable future.
The most it's really going do is give the people responsible for the unofficial squad builders and online programs more work.
17 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:Why are people in such a hurry for a points update?
Change.
Even if you lose a Pilot because it's then to expensiv, or an upgrade. It will change the Lists, the meta and fresh up thing!
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Edited by Dragon_KingX-Wing Vassal League. It's the best X-Wing there is, IMO. Most of the folks in my division are waiting for new points to drop before starting games this season.
34 minutes ago, Dragon_King said:Change...
But without any love events or tournament s on the horizon for the foreseeable future, would that not be change for the sake of change alone?
Certainly a lot of the events that were planned for the current points and Hyperspace legal ships and upgrades were cancelled or postponed, so the expected data for future revisions from these Eve TD is simply not there.
16 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:X-Wing Vassal League. It's the best X-Wing there is, IMO. Most of the folks in my division are waiting for new points to drop before starting games this season.
Fair enough, but how long do they plan on waiting? Another week? A month? A season? Do they realise it could be a long time?
Even if FFG have collected the data they want on the current points and inclusions and are in a position to make the changes, they may choose with withhold them until Organised Play is in a position to announce a restart, until they are able to confirm a roadmap for upcoming releases or any number of other variables.
1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:Why are people in such a hurry for a points update?
It's not as though there's going to be any live events for the foreseeable future.
The most it's really going do is give the people responsible for the unofficial squad builders and online programs more work.
If all I can do is think about X-Wing, thinking about new points is more interesting than thinking about old points.
But yeah, no rush.
57 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:But without any live events or tournaments on the horizon for the foreseeable future, would that not be change for the sake of change alone?
Certainly a lot of the events that were planned for the current points and Hyperspace legal ships and upgrades were cancelled or postponed, so the expected data for future revisions from these Eve TD is simply not there.
There may not be FFG official events, but there are plenty of us still playing. Vassal and TTS league are pretty popular. Gold Squadron has had several large international TTS tournaments.
The bigger rub I see is that the pool of data for informing the changes is smaller than normal. Discords/Struts and Boba/Slave 1 seems to have unambiguous "these need addressed" signs on them, but other than that, I don't know what they would change. Perhaps they have done some playtesting for changing slots or something for ships that they knew were weak back at the last points change, but other than that *shrug*.
3 hours ago, 5050Saint said:Discords/Struts and Boba/Slave 1 seems to have unambiguous "these need addressed" signs on them, but other than that, I don't know what they would change.
Change what's in Hyperspace so that cyclical hyperspace vs. extended argument can come back. 
3 hours ago, 5050Saint said:Discords/Struts and Boba/Slave 1 seems to have unambiguous "these need addressed" signs on them,
Wait are Discord Missiles actually being used to strong effect? 😃
21 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:Wait are Discord Missiles actually being used to strong effect? 😃
People finally figured out, despite the initial confusion in how they function and the flock of gulls calling it useless because it can be rolled off of or pulled off by an ally, that chip damage on a shielded and easy crits on unshielded targets and area control from them is decent. I think people have issue with the current overall cost for a TFD with Discords and Struts now, though they also probably don't like "wasting" attacks to get rid of discords.
Edited by Hiemfire5 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:People finally figured out, despite the initial confusion in how they function and the flock of gulls calling it useless because it can be rolled off of or pulled off by an ally, that chip damage on a shielded and easy crits on unshielded targets and area control from them is decent. I think people have issue with the current overall cost for a TFD with Discords and Struts now, though they also probably don't like "wasting" attacks to get rid of discords.
Turns out spending a calculate for a nearly guaranteed damage is pretty good (since your I1 Trade Federation Drone could be init killed anyway).
As a Separatist player, I'd prefer if they dropped the price of struts to 0 and bumped the price of the Trade Fed Drone and Techno Union Bomber 1 point to compensate. I don't like having struts/nostruts available for list tetris. Further, the last thing I want to do after explaining to my opponent all the words on my cards is to tell them that those words only apply to some of my ships.
5 minutes ago, QQMoore said:Turns out spending a calculate for a nearly guaranteed damage is pretty good (since your I1 Trade Federation Drone could be init killed anyway).
Yep. Though I'm sure we may have someone show up shortly who will preach the efficiency and effectiveness of ESCs over Discords if they catch wind of this discussion.
5 minutes ago, QQMoore said:As a Separatist player, I'd prefer if they dropped the price of struts to 0 and bumped the price of the Trade Fed Drone and Techno Union Bomber 1 point to compensate. I don't like having struts/nostruts available for list tetris. Further, the last thing I want to do after explaining to my opponent all the words on my cards is to tell them that those words only apply to some of my ships.
Can't say I disagree. It'd definitely stream line allot.
Back on the original topic:
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Edited by Hiemfire41 minutes ago, QQMoore said:As a Separatist player, I'd prefer if they dropped the price of struts to 0 and bumped the price of the Trade Fed Drone and Techno Union Bomber 1 point to compensate. I don't like having struts/nostruts available for list tetris. Further, the last thing I want to do after explaining to my opponent all the words on my cards is to tell them that those words only apply to some of my ships.
You could always not take struts on any of them! 
No? Okay, that's fair.
More seriously, I've heard your sentiment from several CIS players, and I'll say "I get it" but you folks still baffle me. Given the choice between a 20 point vulture vs. a 19+1 point Vulture, you choose the 20 point one. Baffling.
4 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:Given the choice between a 20 point vulture vs. a 19+1 point Vulture, you choose the 20 point one. Baffling.
I don't think anyone is unaware this would be a nerf
Dion sure sounded like he had "sources" that claimed new points would drop by this weekend. Hope so.
ESC are not hyperspace legal. I find that hyperspace has kind of won out amongst a lot of online players anyway.
36 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:Given the choice between a 20 point vulture vs. a 19+1 point Vulture, you choose the 20 point one. Baffling.
Theme.
Same goes for the B-Wing in my book, but I understand the can of worms there with the paywall. 😕
Really they should just add that card to all future prints of the B-Wing pack. It would be unprecedented but I feel like it's the right move. Or maybe they should have switched its reprint timing with the A-Wing's. I really don't understand so many things about how they rolled out the 2.0 reprints. It's almost like they're hurting their business on purpose... 😢
3 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:Theme.
36 minutes ago, svelok said:I don't think anyone is unaware this would be a nerf
Understood, but I've heard CIS players that they'd take a 21 point Vulture, but not a 19 point Vulture with 2 point Struts. It just baffles me. Doug Howe, STL Grand Champs Winner and Crossroad Classic winner, said this, and it hurt my brain. The man has my respect but also my confusion.
1 minute ago, 5050Saint said:Understood, but I've heard CIS players that they'd take a 21 point Vulture, but not a 19 point Vulture with 2 point Struts. It just baffles me.
The reason isn't because a 21-point Vulture with struts is by any means bad, but rather because a 19-point vulture is just far too much more economical to make the struts worth it.
Historical data says 21 might be a tad high even with struts. 20 with struts included seems more fair to me as long as ESC, Discord, etc. are well-priced.
Edited by ClassicalMoser1 minute ago, 5050Saint said:
Understood, but I've heard CIS players that they'd take a 21 point Vulture, but not a 19 point Vulture with 2 point Struts. It just baffles me. Doug Howe, STL Grand Champs Winner and Crossroad Classic winner, said this, and it hurt my brain. The man has my respect but also my confusion.
I think it is because the 19+2 opens more options as to where the points could be spent while the 21+0 doesn't pushing the struts from a choice to a "Well it's free, might as well". List optimization.
3 hours ago, SpiderMana said:Wait are Discord Missiles actually being used to strong effect? 😃
Given the long hate for Trajedy Stimulator, the fact that Vultures can spend 4 points to have a mine they can launch with perfect information has sparked astonishingly low levels of rage.
1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:Understood, but I've heard CIS players that they'd take a 21 point Vulture, but not a 19 point Vulture with 2 point Struts. It just baffles me. Doug Howe, STL Grand Champs Winner and Crossroad Classic winner, said this, and it hurt my brain. The man has my respect but also my confusion.
I think it'd just represent a better structure.
The main thing which convinced me on 0-point struts were the mixed strut/non-strut squads. These three vultures don't have them, these 4 do, and so forth. Makes bookkeeping kind of a nightmare for both players.
On top of that, I think it's just easier to have the final ships correctly priced when the struts are baked in. Without struts, it's kinda hard to ask folks to spend 20 or 21 points for a vulture, and yet, vultures at 19 points seem to be too strong, and need to go up in price. It's easier to justify a higher baseline price if they have higher baseline capacities--that is, free struts.
On 6/24/2020 at 1:38 PM, Hiemfire said:I think it is because the 19+2 opens more options as to where the points could be spent while the 21+0 doesn't pushing the struts from a choice to a "Well it's free, might as well". List optimization.
On that note, I'd love to throw away s-Foils on my T70s and pay 1-3 less points for them...
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I respect the designer's right to push optimization and flexibility where they think it fits best, but configs are an upgrade that I basically consider a second stacked ship ability.
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On that note, I wonder how TIE/ln's are gonna air out if their Droid competition do end up a 21 w/free struts?
Do we see TIE swarm again?
Hello crackwingers. Been awhile.
Yeah, I'm ready to get back to it. Even if it is a small scale with a couple of friends at home, let's do this.
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4 hours ago, Bucknife said:On that note, I wonder how TIE/ln's are gonna air out if their Droid competition do end up a 21 w/free struts?
Do we see TIE swarm again?
I definitely hope so. 22 points is surprisingly quite a bit cheaper than 23 when you multiply it across the swarm.
Still feel like Interceptors and maybe bombers could come down a little as long as Sloane gets adjusted.
Points expected today? Someone said by the end of the week...