33 minutes ago, ConomeOnTheVine said:

In the same vein that 'same type' isn't clear, it could also arguably refer to red or orange tokens, so that if the ship initially gained a stress, you could assign an ion token. Or if they gained a jam, you can assign a tractor.

Please just stop and accept Thannison doesn't work with lock tokens, since you should copy all aspects of the token.

same type is not very clear, no, but i would be very surprised if "round", "square" or any color would be considered to be a type of token. it's pretty clear he works with locks. the RR says locks are red tokens - and thanisson states "red or orange token". do you have any references that says he wouldn't work with locks or that you should copy all aspects of the token - and not just the type?

On 1/7/2019 at 3:48 PM, nitrobenz said:

I know In competitive settings everyone typically brings their own components, but why wouldn't Locks be shared according to the rules?

Because lock tokens are numbered and therefore ship-specific.

3 hours ago, meffo said:

same type is not very clear, no, but i would be very surprised if "round", "square" or any color would be considered to be a type of token. it's pretty clear he works with locks. the RR says locks are red tokens - and thanisson states "red or orange token". do you have any references that says he wouldn't work with locks or that you should copy all aspects of the token - and not just the type?

"same type" is not clear, but it's definitely a reasonable assumption (assuming is of course not good) that it's just the same color, not necessarily the exact same kind of token it just gained. hence, any red token should be fine.

2 hours ago, ConomeOnTheVine said:

"same type" is not clear, but it's definitely a reasonable assumption (assuming is of course not good) that it's just the same color, not necessarily the exact same kind of token it just gained. hence, any red token should be fine.

That depends on how specific you - or more precisely, your local TO - defines "same type."

• Does that mean...
  • Any red or orange token,
  • Another token of the same color,
  • Another token of the same variety (ion, stress, lock), but precise details (lock number) may vary, or
  • The exact same token (including lock number)?
• If there are any decisions to be made (which token, etc), are those choices made by...
  • The controlling player,
  • The enemy player,
  • Or is it random?
• And if you can assign another target lock, who decides which side is face up (since you could theoretically choose to assign a lock for your opponent?)

7 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

That depends on how specific you - or more precisely, your local TO - defines "same type."

• Does that mean...
  • Any red or orange token,
  • Another token of the same color,
  • Another token of the same variety (ion, stress, lock), but precise details (lock number) may vary, or
  • The exact same token (including lock number)?
• If there are any decisions to be made (which token, etc), are those choices made by...
  • The controlling player,
  • The enemy player,
  • Or is it random?
• And if you can assign another target lock, who decides which side is face up (since you could theoretically choose to assign a lock for your opponent?)

The most straightforward answer is that Thannison doesn't instruct you to make a choice, therefore the correct interpretation is the one that doesn't require one. The second token assigned should be identical in every way to the first.

10 hours ago, Maui. said:

Because   lock tokens are numbered and therefore ship-specific. 

In 2.0 there is a white and black side to each market and associated Lock token. You absolutely can share a set with your opponent where one uses white numbers/locks and the other uses black.

5 hours ago, ConomeOnTheVine said:

5 hours ago, ConomeOnTheVine said:

• If  there are any decisions to be made (which token, etc), are those choices made by...
  • The controlling player,
  • The enemy player,
  •  Or is it random?
• And if you can assign another target lock, who decides which side is face up (since you could theoretically choose to assign a lock for your opponent  ?)  

The most straightforward answer is that Thannison doesn't instruct you to make a choice, therefore the correct interpretation is the one that doesn't require one. The second token assigned should be identical in every way to the first.

Or it is assigned at random...

Mix all the locks up and grab one, then flip for color. If it's not associated with a ship on the board it's a dud, otherwise somebody has a new Lock.

Honestly, there's no clear precedent and it's not covered by the rules. If you think you're going to use this then you should reach consensus before the game or check with the TO before the event.

I would like to see this brought up at enough events that FFG has to make a ruling we can use as precedent the next time something like this comes up. I don't much care what the ruling is, I just want it to be clear and applicable to future interactions!

10 hours ago, ConomeOnTheVine said:

"same type" is not clear, but it's definitely a reasonable assumption (assuming is of course not good) that it's just the same color,  not necessarily the exact same kind of token it just gained. hence, any red token should be fine.

that's not a reasonable assumption at all based on the rules reference. check out the section about tokens on page 18. you can also look at the section called "inflict" on page 12. it's very clear that "type" refers to just that, the type of token, meaning ion, stress, tractor and lock are all different types of tokens. lock token is a type of token.

8 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

• If there are any decisions to be made (which token, etc), are those choices made by...
  • The controlling player,
  • The enemy player,
  • Or is it random?
• And if you can assign another target lock, who decides which side is face up (since you could theoretically choose to assign a lock for your opponent?)

the decision is made by the player that controls the effect. any other way of going about it would be highly irregular.

using your opponents locks is certainly an interesting part. i'm not sure whether it should be allowed, or if the locks in some way belong to that player and that should prevent you from using them.

2 hours ago, nitrobenz said:

Honestly, there's no clear precedent and it's not covered by the rules. If you think you're going to use this then you should reach consensus before the game or check with the TO before the event.

I would like to see this brought up at enough events that FFG has to make a ruling we can use as precedent the next time something like this comes up. I don't much care what the ruling is, I just want it to be clear and applicable to future interactions!

i 100% agree with this. i don't think a ruling from an event is good enough, though. this needs to be clarified in the rules reference.

On 1/12/2019 at 2:56 AM, meffo said:

i 100% agree with this. i don't think a ruling from an event is good enough, though. this needs to be clarified in the rules reference.

Or that Official rulings thread

Really interesting topic.

I've been reading The RR for a while.now, and this is how I see it:

Ship 1 locks enemy.

Ship 2 with Thannison is at r0-1. As The enemy has acquired a red token (a lock token) , You (ship2) asign another token of The same type. (Another lock token)

There.is a chance that it is ship 2 The one assigning The token. In this case, Ship 2 wouldn't be locking, or acquiring a lock... b ut if it were asigning a lock token, it would be a lock with The same .number of ship 2. And then de would have an enemy with a lock from ship 1 and a second lock from ship 2 whixh would allow rerolling to.both ships.

The example of Kagi justifies my reasoning, no ship locked him, But as he took the locks from friendly ships, he ends being locked by the enemies.

Thannison is still quite a good crew member or a challenging foe in short range. (Even if locks don't work as I'm saying)

(Editted to correct a wrong statement)

Nothing says ship 2 is assigning the token.

Please point to what does.

12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nothing says ship 2 is assigning the token.

Please point to what does.

Oh,god .. You're right. Ship 2 isn't assigning The additional token. (Just re-read thannison again)

Enemy is gaining it... Out of nowhere ...

Then i suppose it is either

A- ship 1 places lock token , another lock from ship1 appears and then is discarded (unless you're cable.to maintain 2 locks)

B- ship 1 places lock token, another lock from nobody, appears on The enemy... Non usable, but still it would be a ship with a red token (if it was of.any relevance for gameplay)

C- (my improbable theory from before that would make P.O.Thannison a beast, )

Still we'll have to.wait for clarification.