So for most of use we hoped when Hyperspace Format was announced it was going to be the bridge between 2nd edition and extended format, instead it just replaced second edition and is used for FFG premier level tournaments held by OP. But enough about that I am here to work on a new competitive format. One that does bridge the gap between 2nd edition and Extended. The premise is simple, every model will have a legal pilot playable in the format. To prevent overpowered ships from extended they will be restricted to one maybe two pilots (similar to the playing favorites variant). That way the bulk of the format will be from 2nd edition. As for upgrades, I will likely just pull from the Hyperspace legal pool and call it good. I plan on this being a community format so any input will be appreciated. After we get all the factions I'll put out the custom format with all the legal pilots. So on to rebel pilot selection.

• T-65 X-wing
  • All Pilots
• BTL-A4 Y-wing
  • All Pilots
• RZ-1 A-wing
  • Green Squadron Pilot [3]
• A/SF-01 B-wing
  • Blue Squadron Pilot [2]
• UT-60D U-wing
  • All Pilots from Saw's Renegades
• Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter
  • *Han Solo [6]
  • Outer Rim Smuggler [1]
• YT-2400 Light Freighter
  • *"Leebo" [3]
• E-wing
  • *Corran Horn [5]
• HWK-290
  • *Kyle Katarn [3]
• BTL-S8 K-wing
  • *Esege Tuketu [3]
• Z-95 Headhunter - Scum & Villainy
• ARC-170 Starfighter - Republic
• VCX-100 Light Freighter
  • Lothal Rebel [2]
• Attack Shuttle
  • *"Zeb" Orrelios [2]
• Sheathipede-class Shuttle
  • *AP-5 [1]
• TIE/ln Stolen Fighter - Galactic Empire
• Auzituck Gunship
  • Kashyyyk Defender [1]

So I chosen the Rebels first because it provides a good demonstration of my plan for the format. As you see all pilots from 2nd edition is legal, while ships that are hyperspace legal have 2 pilots (one unique and one non-unique) legal which is my plan for the Resistance and 1stOrder factions in this format (I can extend it further for those factions if needed). As for pilot selection I try to pick pilots that I think best fit the role. For example the A-wing I think works best having multiples of so I selected a generic ship. While the E-wing has always been more of an Ace so a unique pilot is selected. I also am using this as a way to keep the power from extended in check. Ships that are notorious for being above the power curve like the K-wing has a unique pilot selected and one of the weaker unique pilots. For extended ships that span multiple factions I simply chose one of those factions that the ship fits best and is left out of the other factions. As you see there are 3 ships crossed out mainly because they fit better in other factions. All three ships already have 2nd edition expansions either announced or are already out. As for the HWK-290 I decided it should go with the Rebels for now as everything is changeable in 2nd edition custom formats.

So what do you think about this pilot selection? I will be making 3 more posts on this new format. One for Empire, one for Scum & Villainy, and the Resistance and 1st Order will be placed in the same thread. After a consensus is reached I will go to the Custom Format tab in the App and publish the format for everyone. So is there a pilot you think should be in it, or a ship that might need a boost, or a pilot that is too good and needs to be taken out? Please comment below.

26 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

To prevent overpowered ships from extended they will be restricted to one maybe two pilots

Take a look at the overpowered ships in extended and count how many different pilots they are using

18 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Take a look at the overpowered ships in extended and count how many different pilots they are using

Those are the pilots that won't be in the format.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Those are the pilots that won't be in the format.

Guess nobody's going to play TIE Phantoms or scum Y-Wings then.

Actually, as long as X-Wings, etc get all of their I5s, things you remove said pilots from will probably drop off the face of the earth.

5 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Those are the pilots that won't be in the format.

I say this as someone who will probably never use this format anyways, but when you get down to it what is it you are trying to solve? I mean if it's just about toning down particularly broken/undercoated pilots, abilities, and combos couldn't that just be achieved by a ban list? Why remove so many other pilots from extended when the bulk of which are fine or overcosted (and so only get played rarely anyways)? I guess I don't understand the need for a true middle ground between Hyperspace and Extended. While I don't agree with the desire for Hyperspace to be primary format, I understand the desire to have a format that is mostly re-released ships. Extended is everything by default, and has pitfalls in some key areas because there hasn't been any price updates since release.

I guess my question is, if Extended was perfectly balance would there be a need for this? If so what is it?

8 hours ago, GeneralVryth said:

...what is it you are trying to solve?...

Banning models which is a terrible way to run a miniatures game. I know many players out there insists that you can simply treat X-wing miniatures as a card game with rotations and such but as for hyperspace which literally says you can't play with that model, even if it is one you bought from FFG that is a recipe for disaster and a much greater Negative Play Experience than a broken meta.

The largest arguments is that Extended is too big to balance properly, and that it is too in accessible to new players requiring them to get both a 1st edition expansion and a conversion kit. So the by keeping the format majority of 2nd edition ships while retaining options previously available from 1st edition. Lets face it, you can tell by the many forum posts that Hyperspace format has split the player base as much as The Last Jedi has split the fan base . So yes there is a problem that needs to be solve. Many players don't look at aspects of game design and think only of the meta . They can't get their minds wrapped around what makes ________ so good, only that _______ is too good to be let in the first place.

Anyways save your debates on if we need another competitive format for the release thread. This thread was a discussion on what rebel pilots should and should not be allowed. I see that I shouldn't have expect proper feed back so I'll have to accelerate and just release the next threads about Empire, Scum, and Resistance & 1stOrder so the format can be made. It is clear that FFG doesn't have the best idea for a competitive format, so at least there is a tool (a bit of a cumbersome and rickety one) so the community can step in and at the very least show OP what would make a good competitive format.

57 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Banning models which is a terrible way to run a miniatures game. I know many players out there insists that you can simply treat X-wing miniatures as a card game with rotations and such but as for hyperspace which literally says you can't play with that model, even if it is one you bought from FFG that is a recipe for disaster and a much greater Negative Play Experience than a broken meta.

The largest arguments is that Extended is too big to balance properly, and that it is too in accessible to new players requiring them to get both a 1st edition expansion and a conversion kit. So the by keeping the format majority of 2nd edition ships while retaining options previously available from 1st edition. Lets face it, you can tell by the many forum posts that Hyperspace format has split the player base as much as The Last Jedi has split the fan base . So yes there is a problem that needs to be solve. Many players don't look at aspects of game design and think only of the meta . They can't get their minds wrapped around what makes ________ so good, only that _______ is too good to be let in the first place.

Anyways save your debates on if we need another competitive format for the release thread. This thread was a discussion on what rebel pilots should and should not be allowed. I see that I shouldn't have expect proper feed back so I'll have to accelerate and just release the next threads about Empire, Scum, and Resistance & 1stOrder so the format can be made. It is clear that FFG doesn't have the best idea for a competitive format, so at least there is a tool (a bit of a cumbersome and rickety one) so the community can step in and at the very least show OP what would make a good competitive format.

I wasn't trying to start a debate. Understanding what you are trying to do and why is key to being able to make informed suggestions. My only concern now with your goal, is you're concerned about Extended being too big to balance, and so are trying to make it smaller, which makes sense. However, you don't have control over what the point changes will be, and if there are large changes it could drastically change around what the "unbalanced" options are in Extended and by extension which ships/pilots you should allow. Something you will need to think about how you plan to address.

As to your request, in general I would suggest having one generic and one unique for every model unless there is an explicit balance concern for the ship itself (which I think is rare). So with that in mind I would add:

• A-wing - Arvel Crynyd
• B-wing - Braylen Stramm
• All Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter Pilots (they are all going to be Hyperspace legal)
• E-wing - Rogue Squadron Escort

I don't know the K-wing or Auzituck Gunship well enough to speak to them

I don't know if the YT-2400 should be Leedo or Dash since each has it's own insanity.

Finally for the VCX-100 I would use one of the unique pilots, ideally the most balanced and well known from Rebels which I haven't watched yet to be able to comment on.

Banning the only competitive pilot == banning the model

1 hour ago, gadwag said:

Banning the only competitive pilot == banning the model

Not quite, you can still take the model, it just won't be the top meta build so most people won't take it. In a ban, it is not allowed whatsoever. However the idea behind the format isn't to ban the only competitive pilot for a model but picking sub-optima pilots for models that are too good. Take the Interceptor for example, right now Soontir isn't the terror that he once was, but as far as competitive builds Soontir seems like the logical choice for TIE Interceptor pilots. as you can see HERE

2 hours ago, GeneralVryth said:

...

As to your request, in general I would suggest having one generic and one unique for every model unless there is an explicit balance concern for the ship itself (which I think is rare). So with that in mind I would add:

• A-wing - Arvel Crynyd
• B-wing - Braylen Stramm
• All Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter Pilots (they are all going to be Hyperspace legal)
• E-wing - Rogue Squadron Escort

...

Well there is a little bit of a balance concern, as with the wave 2 factions most of their ships have not been rereleased but all of them are hyperspace legal (giving the format 7 extended ships). However if there is a ship that is underperforming such as A-wings I could add a pilot that will make it better, the trick is not to add in the pilot (like 1st edition Biggs).

But as for B-wings and A-wings do you think they work better as an Ace (highly upgraded unique pilot build) or better in groups (generic duplicate builds)?

13 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Not quite, you can still take the model, it just won't be the top meta build so most people won't take it. In a ban, it is not allowed whatsoever.

What's the difference?

Can you actually explain to me what the practical difference is? If you know well and good that banning a certain pilot will mean no one takes the model, then what benefit is there to 'allowing' the model?

I also don't see how you're not effectively just creating a ban list, no matter how you might try and dress it up otherwise.

6 hours ago, GuacCousteau said:

What's the difference?

Can you actually explain to me what the practical difference is? If you know well and good that banning a certain pilot will mean no one takes the model, then what benefit is there to 'allowing' the model?

I also don't see how you're not effectively just creating a ban list, no matter how you might try and dress it up otherwise.

I'm not banning models, practical difference is you can take the model in the game. You can't play B-wings in Hyperspace, even if it is just the prototype pilot.

In competitive play, banning the competitive pilot(s) for a ship is equivalent to banning that ship. If the prototype b-wing pilot was legalised in hyperspace, it wouldn't be worth taking compared to an X-Wing.

Don't get me wrong: banning powerful pilots will certainly make the meta very different in your format. If that's what you're going for, then that's great. But be aware that (just like in extended) there will be certain ships that people never fly in your format because they are too weak.

Once you've finished creating your lists of allowed pilots, I recommend that you collect them all together in one thread - putting it across separate threads makes it much easier for players to see all the information at once and reduces spam on the forum.

1 hour ago, gadwag said:

...

Once you've finished creating your lists of allowed pilots, I recommend that you collect them all together in one thread - putting it across separate threads makes it much easier for players to see all the information at once and reduces spam on the forum.

That is the plan. I'm just trying to get some feed back before I release the first draft and it will be available on the app. Version 0.2.0 or something like that.

As for these threads again just trying to see which pilots are too strong which ships need the best pilots they can get and which ships are better en-mass.