So out of curiosity I did a search on eBay for Star Wars legion... and are people nuts with these prices?
There is one guy selling a crashed Falcon for 800 bucks. EIGHT HUNDRED BUCKS.
A Polish auction has the core set for $700, and frankly... they aren’t that nicely painted. Certainly not seven hundred dollars nice.
There are a bunch like this. I don’t get it. Why on earth are the legion prices so high?
I contact a local guy about painting my new core set. Wanted 330 dollars Canadian to start and probably more. Basically it was $10 an hour plus assembly and basing. I think he figured each figure would be about an hour or more. There’s another guy who a friend told me charges $20 a figure. So is it extreme maybe. But people pay it.
It’s all in the price of buying the minis and supplies to paint them. I agree some seem to go extreme with their prices. But if you want pre painted it’s going to cost. I’d look up people who do it as a profession, if you’re looking for painted.
As for the falcon. It might be 3-D printed and the person wants a pretty penny for their work.
Just my thoughts.
Actual models painted I can get overprice. However the price on promo stuff is insane. I sold some old clear x wing Dice. Only difference is that they are transparent. I got about 11 times the retail price for a normal dice pack. Not complaining, I got a bunch of new legion models and more 😋
You have to understand, when you ask someone to paint miniatures for you, you are asking for skilled work. It's basically like commissioning a painting. It requires time, skill and materials. I would be taking a pay cut at $10 an hour for painting miniatures and my regular job is way easier. And then I'm supplying my own paints, brushes, etc. It's not unreasonable to charge well above, especially if you are good at it.
Art is always seriously undervalued for the amount of work that goes into it.
I agree with @ImhotepMagi , I don't think the prices are insane for fully painted & based miniatures.
I've been working on my own set of Legion minis since May; for the time I've put into what I have painted (and looking at all that I still have to paint) I would want some serious cash to commission paint someone else's minis. Some things I would say are worth paying more for-based on the complexity of painting. Royal Guards and Wookiees, for instance, are extremely easy and I could realistically knock out a few sets a day. But well detailed rebel troops, those take time...even my Stormies took a long time to properly finish and they're not even based yet!
I guess the big difference would come down to how they are painted: are they painstakingly meticulously painted to include every detail or do they look good at table-distance?
As for 3D printing, I have a coworker that has zero interest in Star Wars miniatures gaming but owns a 3D printer. He's getting into the business of printing and selling terrain because the ROI (return on investment) is astronomically high. The biggest thing with 3D printing is waiting and giving the printer the hours it needs to print, and he's at work when it's running getting a paycheck - so it's like double money. Based on everything he's shared with me about the process, if you're going to buy 3D printed terrain (even if it is completely painted) just buy a 3D printer, download Thingiverse designs, and do it yourself-it's thousands of times cheaper in the long run.
Edited by ZealuxMyr1 minute ago, ZealuxMyr said:As for 3D printing, I have a coworker that has zero interest in Star Wars miniatures gaming but owns a 3D printer. He's getting into the business of printing and selling terrain because the ROI (return on investment) is astronomically high. The biggest thing with 3D printing is waiting and giving the printer the hours it needs to print, and he's at work when it's running getting a paycheck - so it's like double money. Based on everything he's shared with me about the process, if you're going to buy 3D printer terrain (even if it is completely painted) just buy a 3D printer, download Thingiverse designs, and do it yourself-it's thousands of times cheaper in the long run.
True! I have a friend that's been tooling around with his 3D printer and asked if I wanted him to print up anything. I found a little radar dish on Thingiverse that I thought might look good on one of my repurposed "hamburger container" bunkers - might give it a little look of realism, you know?!
He printed it up and it looks really good. I asked him how much I owed him. His reply: "Eh, it's only a nickel's worth of plastic."
I gave him a dime as down payment for the next little item I might find and want printed.
Yes. The bifurcation of incomes has made some people perfectly willing to pay insane prices for things.
I've seen single, nondescript Star Wars lego figures going for $30k. Since they had several available and was in broken English shipping from Elbonia or somewhere, my best guess is, it was a money laundering operation.
If I were to paint a core set to my own rather low personal standard it would cost... $100? I can do it in a couple hours, and $50 an hour is about right. Once you deduct supplies, taxes, and eBay fees I'm looking at making 50% of whatever I charged. Maybe if I did some math and stuff I'd figure out I was wrong and he price could vary up or down a bit. I would advise anyone against spending $100 to get my level of army painting however. I'm cheap and I'm fast, you know the other side of that situation. I'm not good.
All people are at least a little bit insane. they are dangerous. just try to sidestep the truly derailed and you'll be fine that's my advice, and unlike that ebay crashed falcon it was free
Edited by Geressen
I know he doesn't do it, but i'd love to know what the "hero figure rate" would be for a Sorastro level paint job. Just done an Ashoko Tano (figure from IA) according to his guide and its pretty **** good if is say so myself (still only 20% of what Soratsro produces 🙂 ) - but only cause I followed his video almost to the letter. so in some ways the value is in the instructions / tutorials.
2 hours ago, Sparty1701 said:I know he doesn't do it, but i'd love to know what the "hero figure rate" would be for a Sorastro level paint job. Just done an Ashoko Tano (figure from IA) according to his guide and its pretty **** good if is say so myself (still only 20% of what Soratsro produces 🙂 ) - but only cause I followed his video almost to the letter. so in some ways the value is in the instructions / tutorials.
A buddy of mine was talking to Sascha Herm about a commission, and I think he was charging in the realm of 200 bucks for a figure. Now, he is the absolute pinnacle of painting, a famous master who is maybe a level above Sorastro (who does AMAZING work) but... it ain't cheap:)
And yeah, there are plenty of good deals. And I know that commission painting isn't cheap. But if you look at some of the other painted minis on ebay... a unit of 35 Napoleonic figures, painted to a serious pro standard and with all the bells and whistles of a Napoleonic figure (more belts than you can imagine!) will run 300 bucks. So how on earth people can offer a Legion core set for double that, with an acceptable but not amazing paintjob, and then expect it to sell... I don't know, it seems foolish.
Now, there are some good deals there for sure... but some of them... not so much.
I don't think it is insane or unreasonable to put a price on time and effort. Some people believe that because things are not "massed produced" or not "professionally" done, that they should only cost pennies on the dollar. THAT is unreasonable. Anyone who collects or sells anything knows that things are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.
I have painted over 200 Imperial Assault miniatures and over 100 Legion miniatures. (See my threads) They were painted and stored away. Never used. For me, painting miniatures is an escape and a labor of love. I enjoy bringing them to life. My painting style is reminiscent of the Kenner/Hasbro line.
Playing Imperial Assault or Legion will not be easy as we are moving to the Blue Ridge mountains in Virginia. I actually planned on selling my fully painted Legion miniatures as well as the Imperial Assault box sets and expansions on eBay starting them off at the MSRP and let people decide how much they feel they are worth. Although there are quite a few customs I have made. (again see my threads) I can then buy more miniatures and keep doing what I enjoy most about this hobby.
Edited by C3POFETTOn 1/2/2019 at 6:48 AM, Lord Ashram said:There is one guy selling a crashed Falcon for 800 bucks. EIGHT HUNDRED BUCKS.
Is he selling it for that much or is he asking that much? That is, has anyone apparently placed a bid in that range?
I’ve bought some painted Legion and Imperial Assailt figures and units on eBay, and while of course I’ve paid more than the MSRP for the figure or unit, I’ve not even landed in the same ballpark as some of the listings I see sometimes, and as you say, the paint jobs, while usually better than my level, often aren’t all that impressive.
On the other hand, I have seen painted minis with high prices and said to myself “that’s an absolutely reasonable price for that paint job,” even if it was outside the realm of what I’d be willing to spend.
Edited by LStyer8 hours ago, C3POFETT said:Some people believe that because things are . . . not "professionally" done, that they should only cost pennies on the dollar.
I’m a bit curious what you mean by “not ‘professionally’ done” in this context.
If you mean literally, “This was painted as a hobby, not a job,” then, yeah, I don’t see why that would have anything to do with whether the price is reasonable.
But if you mean “not ‘professionally’ done” as a measure of quality, it seems pretty relevant to the question of whether the price is reasonable.
I suspect he means that a lot of people who paint for money do it as a "side gig", and some even have the temerity to enjoy doing it. Combined, these factors seem to make people believe it's not "real" work and so doesn't deserve real pay.
I usually despise the term(it's pretty much exclusively used by fanboys and corporate white knights to shut down entirely valid criticisms), but if someone expects to pay a painter less money to turn out good quality on tiny intricate miniatures than they would for a bloke to come around and slap a couple of coats of off-white on a wall with a roller, I'd say "entitled" is exactly the right word.
As for this crashed Falcon, you don't actually link it so we can judge. If it's just a lump of plastic derived from a freely available thingiverse model then yes, that's a ridiculous asking price. If it's a custom piece of work, regardless of whether it's built from model kits or 3D modelled parts, and if it has a decent level of detail, then yeah I could see something like that meriting that kind of pricetag - I mean seriously, imagine how much it would cost you to go and commission one of the Weta Workshop or ILM guys to make you a custom terrain piece, just because someone has done the work unasked and then sought to sell it doesn't make their time and/or skill worth any less.
In terms of specifics... the Falcon terrain was perfectly nice, but it was definitely not 800 bucks (well, 700 dollar buy it now and 175 shipping) nice.
Ah, I found it. Here is the link.
i know nice scenery... this isn’t a Herb Gundt:). And I’m not trying to bash the guy or gal who did it... but I just get upset when people have an inflated sense of the worth of something.
And in terms of the term professionally done, in terms of minis it is usually an indication of quality.
Edited by Lord Ashram5 hours ago, Yodhrin said:I suspect he means that a lot of people who paint for money do it as a "side gig", and some even have the temerity to enjoy doing it. Combined, these factors seem to make people believe it's not "real" work and so doesn't deserve real pay.
Yeah, that has nothing to do with how much I’m willing to pay for a painted mini. That is probably, in part, because if I’m buying an already-painted mini I decide what I’ll pay based on the quality of the paint job, not on how long it took the painter.
All that said, if I’m looking at a mini painted at a level I could match, then I’ll consider how long THAT would take me, but I don’t value that time at my hourly rate for my job.
7 hours ago, LStyer said:I’m a bit curious what you mean by “not ‘professionally’ done” in this context.
If you mean literally, “This was painted as a hobby, not a job,” then, yeah, I don’t see why that would have anything to do with whether the price is reasonable.
But if you mean “not ‘professionally’ done” as a measure of quality, it seems pretty relevant to the question of whether the price is reasonable.
I meant purely as a hobby not a job. I do not knock anyones ability or effort painting miniatures. My experience is that people think personally crafted items should cost practically nothing for time and labor and I don't agree.
A measure of quality is in the eye of the beholder. I think my miniatures look great but someone may view my thread and think they are garbage. I don't paint and post for a pat on the back. If I want a pat on the back I need to grow longer arms. I enjoy being inspired by other community members threads and hope something I have done inspires others too.
39 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:In terms of specifics... the Falcon terrain was perfectly nice, but it was definitely not 800 bucks (well, 700 dollar buy it now and 175 shipping) nice.
It’s way beyond anything I could create, both in terms of my skill and my patience, so if I were looking for a crashed YT-1300, I’d probably pay a fair bit for it. But I have a hard time imagining I’d pay $875 for ANY single piece of terrain, categorically.
QuoteI just get upset when people have an inflated sense of the wort h of something.
I’m not even saying I don’t think it’s “worth $875,” just that even though I am part of the market for Star Wars terrain, I’m not part of the segment of the market that will drop close to a grand on a single piece of terrain. That has to be a pretty narrow category.
Edited by LStyer@Lord Ashram Did you read the description of the listing? The seller states the entire piece is hand crafted and sculpted, not a 3D print. They claim it took months to build and is essentially a diorama piece as a 2 foot by 2 foot terrain piece with alot more detail and terrain then just a hunk a junk for sale. They are willing to answer any questions and have a "Make an Offer" option on the listing so you can let the seller know what you think is a reasonable price.
It is a nice piece and this is a prime example of beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
12 minutes ago, C3POFETT said:My experience is that people think personally crafted items should cost practically nothing for time and labor and I don't agree.
I’m with you there.
13 minutes ago, C3POFETT said:A measure of quality is in the eye of the beholder.
In terms of small differences, sure, but I think there is a general consensus when it comes to broader categories ranging from “it looked better unpainted” to “looks pretty good” to “wow.”
1 minute ago, LStyer said:
In terms of small differences, sure, but I think there is a general consensus when it comes to broader categories ranging from “it looked better unpainted” to “looks pretty good” to “wow.”
I agree. Are the "it looked better unpainted" people really putting their stuff on eBay?
3 minutes ago, C3POFETT said:Are the "it looked better unpainted" people really putting their stuff on eBay?
It’s not common, exactly, but since I’ve gotten onto my current Star Wars minis kick in connection to starting to run an Edge of the Empire campaign, I’ve been hitting the eBay listings for painted Legion and Imperial Assault minis pretty hard, and I’ve seen several listings that belong in that category.
32 minutes ago, C3POFETT said:@Lord Ashram Did you read the description of the listing? The seller states the entire piece is hand crafted and sculpted, not a 3D print. They claim it took months to build and is essentially a diorama piece as a 2 foot by 2 foot terrain piece with alot more detail and terrain then just a hunk a junk for sale. They are willing to answer any questions and have a "Make an Offer" option on the listing so you can let the seller know what you think is a reasonable price.
It is a nice piece and this is a prime example of beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Yup, thought so. Some people might not think that kind of piece is worth a lot of money, but they're wrong. Of course anyone can feel it doesn't hold sufficient value for them personally, but diorama works like this objectively require a lot of skilled work to complete, and the price being asked there is not unusual. Like I said - go to Weta Workshop or ILM and ask them to make you a highly detailed 2x2 diorama for 800 bucks.
This is exactly what I mean about folk having a really bizarre perception of what a "reasonable" price is. Just because you're not willing to pay it doesn't mean it's not reasonable, and most of the time when you really drill down and get folk who take that view to say what they do believe is "reasonable" it would work out as pennies an hour.
Edited by YodhrinOkay.
So, specifically about that Falcon piece... no, it is most assuredly not worth 800 bucks to any reasonable miniature collector.
Again, I've been painting miniatures and building scenery for nearly 40 years. I've been to gaming conventions for decades, have chit chatted minis with the Perry twins, maintain a hugely popular gaming blog, have done commission work, had my miniatures showcased in rule books, have sold and bought collections for thousands of dollars, and had my game room featured in a magazine. I'm not saying this to show off or brag (can anyone actually brag about toy soldiers?:)) ; I am merely establishing context and credentials. I think I am about as good a judge of the value of miniature related stuff, especially at the higher end, as anyone. A chunk of my crowd IS the "$1000 bucks on a single piece" crowd. And looking at that piece... I am well aware that it isn't a 3D printed piece (not sure how that got into the convo... it's obviously not 3D printed. I helped start a 3D printing miniature company, so I would get that), I appreciate the water effects... but it is most assuredly not worth that much. It looks like it is a chopped up Kenner toy; you can see the hinges on the cockpit still. The lichen used is sort of baseline Woodland scenics stuff of the cheapest quality, that will eventually get dry and brittle. The tree is decidedly eh (a tree that big from BTC, for example, would cost you MAYBE 60-80 bucks. MAYBE. And Doug does nice work.) The rocks around the crater of the crash are all huge, instead of varied as they should be. There is an unpainted lego gear sitting on it... like, it's not even shaded or weathered. You can have pros... like, SERIOUS professionals... build almost an entire TABLE for that much.
So sure; anyone can pay whatever they want for something. And I REALLY appreciate that piece, and ALL of the terrain people put their time and energy into. I do. In a world where we aren't discussing pricing and selling and commerce, I'd have zero issue with it, and I'd be SUPER happy to play on it and talk about it with the creator. But that doesn't mean the asking price is reasonable or reflective of the actual quality, in the same way that someone selling a beat up 87 Mustang with a buy it now of $42,000 isn't being reasonable or reflecting the actual quality, even if I do enjoy the car.
Anyway... I know this is a small argument, but...:)
Edited by Lord Ashram3 hours ago, C3POFETT said:@Lord Ashram Did you read the description of the listing? The seller states the entire piece is hand crafted and sculpted, not a 3D print. They claim it took months to build and is essentially a diorama piece as a 2 foot by 2 foot terrain piece with alot more detail and terrain then just a hunk a junk for sale. They are willing to answer any questions and have a "Make an Offer" option on the listing so you can let the seller know what you think is a reasonable price.
It is a nice piece and this is a prime example of beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
It is a chopped up Galactic Heroes Millennium Falcon.