So the other day I was listening to a podcast, and it seems the general consensus is that Frags, on Snows, are really not very good, and you are better off going with Impact. This got me thinking: is there a unit in the game who could maximize what the Frag brings to the table, and the best answer I could give would be Z6 Trooper squads.

For 67 points, the Z6 Frag costs the same as a Fleet, has access to solid range 3, has the great Nimble keyword, and is just as devastating at range 1. Look here:

Z6 Frag (5 man): 5.75 hits

Fleets w/Scatter (5 man): 4.75 w/Pierce 1

This makes their damage at range 1 very comparable against red defense dice targets, but the Z6 will do better the worse the defender's dice are.

Anyways, while the Fleets still hit hard at range 2, their obvious weakness is the lack of range 3 (and a weaker keyword).

So, if you are willing to spend 67 points on a core trooper, is it just better to slap a Frag on a Z6, or am I crazy? Has anyone tried this? Thanks!

Only downside is you have to be at range 1 of something to toss that grenade in order to get the benefit of the surge.

Aside from that it seems like a great plan!

I feel like a Scatter Fleet group would be better at distance 2 over the Frag Z-6 at the same range.

1 hour ago, OccasionallyCorrect said:

Only downside is you have to be at range 1 of something to toss that grenade in order to get the benefit of the surge.

Aside from that it seems like a great plan!

Very true, but with Luke, Vader, Wookies, Guards, and several other units that want to get close, this makes your 'juicy' Rebel trooper squads much less juicy. I guess what I am trying to say is that you may not have to force a range 1 since so many units are trying to force it on you, giving you a cheap and deadly counter to those units.

Two questions:

How do you get them there without losing several and being suppressed? Why don't they work on Snow troopers again?

They do work on snows, but all they do is convert to crits instead of normal hits. You can probably get more effectiveness out of gaining a squad full of impact. That said, the frags have that nice Red die, so it could still be pretty solid.

3 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Two questions:

How do you get them there without losing several and being suppressed? Why don't they work on Snow troopers again?

1. I see these upgrade as a more 'defensive' upgrade. You aren't trying to get to Range 1, but rather there is so much stuff in the game now trying to force close engagements, when they do, you make them pay

2. You lose too much versatility for a marginal gain in infantry killing power. With Impact Grenades, the Snows become really good at killing whatever is in their way, with Frags, it really is just overkill on Infantry, and not very helpful against armor. It's one of those things that looks great on paper, but in reality is not very good. Also, I think a big part of the Frags cost is tied up in their Surge: Crit, which doesn't really help when you already have Surge: Hit, which is why I think they could work on Z6s. Just a theory.

4 hours ago, SirCormac said:

1. I see these upgrade as a more 'defensive' upgrade. You aren't trying to get to Range 1, but rather there is so much stuff in the game now trying to force close engagements, when they do, you make them pay

2. You lose too much versatility for a marginal gain in infantry killing power. With Impact Grenades, the Snows become really good at killing whatever is in their way, with Frags, it really is just overkill on Infantry, and not very helpful against armor. It's one of those things that looks great on paper, but in reality is not very good. Also, I think a big part of the Frags cost is tied up in their Surge: Crit, which doesn't really help when you already have Surge: Hit, which is why I think they could work on Z6s. Just a theory.

surge to crit is always better then surge to hit: hits can still be deflected off or bodyguard off, while crits can'.t also against armor crits are awesome, while yes most units have the surge to hit, it comes down to the unit and preference, with snows i think frags would be okay but the either frag or concussion grenade really benefit units that hit with multple dice like IRG, wookies and fleets. drop one of the minis attacks for 1 grenade and still have alot of dice to throw.

2 hours ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

surge to crit is always better then surge to hit: hits can still be deflected off or bodyguard off, while crits can'.t also against armor crits are awesome, while yes most units have the surge to hit, it comes down to the unit and preference, with snows i think frags would be okay but the either frag or concussion grenade really benefit units that hit with multple dice like IRG, wookies and fleets. drop one of the minis attacks for 1 grenade and still have alot of dice to throw.

Snowtroopers make the most sense of all the corps units because they can double move and still attack.

That and the extra hit 25% hit chance over a black die (impact/concussion) or extra 50% over the base white dice is probably worth 5 points.

Red dice = 7/8; 4.375 hit/crit

Black dice = 5/8; 3.125 hit/crit

White dice = 3/8; 1.875 hit/crit

That’s excluding the heavy weapons slot, of course.

The only reason to put impact grenades on the snowtroopers is if you think they’re going to go up against a vehicle. And if you believe that, why not just bite the bullet and get Stormtroopers with a launcher to deal with the problem at range 4?

Yeah o was thinking you want your snow troopers in range 1 anyway, so red dice with a surge is super reliable damage.

Red dice are awesome and basically its less than a point a guy. I never thought of the frags as defense though, so nice idea there

2 hours ago, Derrault said:

Snowtroopers make the most sense of all the corps units because they can double move and still attack.

That and the extra hit 25% hit chance over a black die (impact/concussion) or extra 50% over the base white dice is probably worth 5 points.

Red dice = 7/8; 4.375 hit/crit

Black dice = 5/8; 3.125 hit/crit

White dice = 3/8; 1.875 hit/crit

That’s excluding the heavy weapons slot, of course.

The only reason to put impact grenades on the snowtroopers is if you think they’re going to go up against a vehicle. And if you believe that, why not just bite the bullet and get Stormtroopers with a launcher to deal with the problem at range 4?

the one that makes the most sense is fleet troopers fully upgraded they have 1 of two combos:
with scatter gun 8 white dice, 2 red dice and 1 grenade dice pierce 1

or

barrage trooper 10 white dice, 1 black dice, and 1 red grenade dice (this will be frags for them as barrage already ignore cover), blast

that is per attack at range 1 no matter how weak the unit is or small

while snowtroopers flame trooper 5 white dice, 1 black per mini (weaker as game goes along) and 1 red grenade dice (frags with the flammer makes the most sense), blast
while the ion snowtroopers get: 6 white dice , 1 black dice, and 1 grenade dice your choice as they don't get blast with their ion gun like fleets do.
yes for armor the rocket is better with impact 3 but you can't shoot and move with the rocket or even aim and shoot with it.

for overall dice throwing and having a more dice to hit with fleets win. but the whole shoot and move twice, snows always won that as they are the only ones that can do that.

for overall combo for units that work really good its either snow or fleets it comes down to what you prefer either shoot and move or throwing more dice.

btw IRG are set as this : 6 black 1 grenade
D.T. we can't tell till we know the oppisite side of the grenade launcher
Rebel troopers z6: 6 white 4 black and 1 grenade (which is alot of dice specially blacks)
rebel trooper ion: 4 black, 2 red, 1 grenade

wookies: 2 black 3 white 1 red, 1 grenade, pierce 1

and no i didn't count impact on any of these as at range 1 impact grenades will always be the best

On 12/31/2018 at 6:33 AM, buckero0 said:

Two questions:

How do you get them there without losing several and being suppressed? Why don't they work on Snow troopers again?

The Snowtroopers already presumably have a Flamethrower, so you already have blast. So all the Concussions do is give you a black die. You are be better off with Impact grenades. They give you black dice AND Impact.

Concussion are only useful on troops that don't have blast. Impact grenades are useful on everybody. Frags are useful on everybody.

Going back to the OP, the two best features of the Rebel Trooper squad are Range 3 and the Z-6 trooper, frags don't really enhance them that much. If you take grenades your chief concern is armor, so best to go with Impacts, even if it's an 'all-or-nothing' approach. That said, the Z-6 is pretty good at critting vehicles anyway.

On 1/1/2019 at 4:11 AM, azeronbloodmoone said:

the one that makes the most sense is fleet troopers fully upgraded they have 1 of two combos:
with scatter gun 8 white dice, 2 red dice and 1 grenade dice pierce 1

or

barrage trooper 10 white dice, 1 black dice, and 1 red grenade dice (this will be frags for them as barrage already ignore cover), blast

that is per attack at range 1 no matter how weak the unit is or small

while snowtroopers flame trooper 5 white dice, 1 black per mini (weaker as game goes along) and 1 red grenade dice (frags with the flammer makes the most sense), blast
while the ion snowtroopers get: 6 white dice , 1 black dice, and 1 grenade dice your choice as they don't get blast with their ion gun like fleets do.
yes for armor the rocket is better with impact 3 but you can't shoot and move with the rocket or even aim and shoot with it.

for overall dice throwing and having a more dice to hit with fleets win. but the whole shoot and move twice, snows always won that as they are the only ones that can do that.

for overall combo for units that work really good its either snow or fleets it comes down to what you prefer either shoot and move or throwing more dice.

btw IRG are set as this : 6 black 1 grenade
D.T. we can't tell till we know the oppisite side of the grenade launcher
Rebel troopers z6: 6 white 4 black and 1 grenade (which is alot of dice specially blacks)
rebel trooper ion: 4 black, 2 red, 1 grenade

wookies: 2 black 3 white 1 red, 1 grenade, pierce 1

and no i didn't count impact on any of these as at range 1 impact grenades will always be the best

Stormtroopers with grenades are (assuming full squad):
1. with Impact 5 black + 1 black per enemy mini; blast, Impact 5
2. with Frags 5 red + 1 black per enemy mini; blast, surge to crit