Sorry if this has been discussed but I couldn’t find it. When does a ship take a stress when it performs a red coordinate? After the other ship completes its action or before. RAW looks like the 3rd step of coordinate is for the chosen ship to act. Example:

upsilon with hux coordinates to another upsilon, second upsilon chooses to coordinate a focus action to the hux carrier. Since the second upsilon is still performing it’s action, hux shouldn’t be stressed yet (after performing a red action take a stress token) and can therefore take a focus. Then both ípsilons are stressed (as per hux). Just trying to see if my understanding of 2.0 red actions is correct.

I'm dubious, there's a strong argument that the Coordinate is complete as soon as you select the ship(s) which are being targetted, per the RR for what is counted as a completed Coordinate.

Also, why are you using Hux on only a single target anyway?

Coordinate (Rules reference page 8 )

Quote

Pilots can coordinate to assist their allies. When a ship performs the coordinate
action, it coordinates. A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to
coordinate by performing the following steps:
1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.
3. The chosen ship performs one action.

It's not 100% clear but i think the stress is received after the chosen ship performs one action (or attempts to perform an action but fails) because of the step 3 is still part of the coordinate.

I’m not I just didnt want to over complicate it by mentioning a third upsilon getting a coordinate target lock.

this should work, since the ship equipped with hux gets the stress from the red coordinate action it's performing after the other ship have performed the coordinated coordinate, which is after the ship being targeted by the coordinated coordinate performs the coordinated action (in this case the hux carrier performing a focus action). O_o

COORDINATE
Pilots can coordinate to assist their allies. When a ship performs the (coordinate) action, it coordinates. A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to coordinate by performing the following steps:
1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.
3. The chosen ship performs one action.

3 hours ago, Bigocto said:

I’m not I just didnt want to over complicate it by mentioning a third upsilon getting a coordinate target lock.

Just to point out... when you use General Hux, every ship you coordinate has to do the same action. Meaning, you could have Hux red-coordinate his two Upsilon buddies, who can then mutually coordinate Hux right back, letting Hux perform a focus/lock? But you can't Hux to let the first ship coordinate, while the second locks.

It's all very confusing.

Ahhhh I forgot about that! Thanks. Still curious about coordinating a coordinate as I could just use coordinate as my declared action for hux and have the third ship coordinate an action to either of the other 2. End result would be 3 stressed ships and two actions before 2 of the ships activate. (All depends on stress timing)

2 hours ago, meffo said:

this should work, since the ship equipped with hux gets the stress from the red coordinate action it's performing after the other ship have performed the coordinated coordinate, which is after the ship being targeted by the coordinated coordinate performs the coordinated action (in this case the hux carrier performing a focus action). O_o

COORDINATE
Pilots can coordinate to assist their allies. When a ship performs the (coordinate) action, it coordinates. A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to coordinate by performing the following steps:
1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.
3. The chosen ship performs one action.

That’s what I was thinking... basically u aren’t COMPLETEING actions until EVERY subsequent coordinate has completed since the third step of coordinate is to perform an action.

New question about coordinate chaining, say I have Sai and a decimate with dauntless title (and the crew with white coord). If the deci bumps can he then coordinate to Sai who then coordinates back so the deci gets a coordinate action and Sai gets that action and a tl from the deci?t

Edit:lt sai with title for the tl after coordinate

15 minutes ago, Oberron said:

New question about coordinate chaining, say I have Sai and a decimate with dauntless title (and the crew with white coord). If the deci bumps can he then coordinate to Sai who then coordinates back so the deci gets a coordinate action and Sai gets that action and a tl from the deci?t

yes, dauntless lets the deci have a coordinate action when it bumps, sai then gets to perform a coordinate action from the coordination from the deci, who gets to take an action thanks to the coordinate from sai. the deci has already coordinated, so cannot perform the same action again. end of chain. the deci could focus or reinforce after being coordinated, though, which would give sai a free focus or reinforce from his ability.

the lambda doesn't have the lock action, sadly.

1 hour ago, meffo said:

yes, dauntless lets the deci have a coordinate action when it bumps, sai then gets to perform a coordinate action from the coordination from the deci, who gets to take an action thanks to the coordinate from sai. the deci has already coordinated, so cannot perform the same action again. end of chain. the deci could focus or reinforce after being coordinated, though, which would give sai a free focus or reinforce from his ability.

the lambda doesn't have the lock action, sadly.

The title let's Sai target lock, forgot to add that but isn't the focus of the situation.

Please remember this part of the Co-Ordinate.

The action is successful the moment the chosen ship is in range. Therefore, stress is immediately received, as, regardless of what the Co-Ordinated ship does, the initial Co-Ordinate has succeeded.

Similarly, if you attempt to Hux Co-Ordinate, and you are completely out of range, you still take the stress as you attempted a Red Co-Ordinate.

It's like a U-Wing, without Tactical Officer, the Co-Ordinate is red, and you receive the stress when attempting it, regardless of whether it's successful or not, or a pilot using Squad Leader, etc.

19 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

Please remember this part of the Co-Ordinate.

The action is successful the moment the chosen ship is in range. Therefore, stress is immediately received, as, regardless of what the Co-Ordinated ship does, the initial Co-Ordinate has succeeded.

Similarly, if you attempt to Hux Co-Ordinate, and you are completely out of range, you still take the stress as you attempted a Red Co-Ordinate.

It's like a U-Wing, without Tactical Officer, the Co-Ordinate is red, and you receive the stress when attempting it, regardless of whether it's successful or not, or a pilot using Squad Leader, etc.

I agree if u fail u def get stressed but the rules reference doesn’t use “successful” as a trigger. The trigger for stress on red actions is “fail” or “after performing”. I don’t see any reason u would take the stress upon declaring a ship as a target as that is only the first step out of three under the coordinate action. Not sure if that’s what u were saying or if u were just warning about the stress if the action fails, but it is a good reminder.

11 minutes ago, Bigocto said:

I agree if u fail u def get stressed but the rules reference doesn’t use “successful” as a trigger. The trigger for stress on red actions is “fail” or “after performing”. I don’t see any reason u would take the stress upon declaring a ship as a target as that is only the first step out of three under the coordinate action. Not sure if that’s what u were saying or if u were just warning about the stress if the action fails, but it is a good reminder.

Ok, sorry, my wording was slightly off.

1) Measure Range from the Co-Ordinating ship to any Friendly Ships.

*no stress here*

2) Choose another friendly ship at Range 1-2

*no Stress here*

3) The Chosen ship performs one action

*Stress received here*

The trouble with attempting to loop Co-Ordinates here is trying to insert an action in that infinitesimal moment between performing the red action and receiving the stress.

Well, if whichever ship uses Hux gets Co-Ordinated by a ship both end up stressed, meaning that a further Co-Ordinate would bounce off both the Hux carrier AND the ship that Co-Ordinated it, meaning it can only perform 1 action in that gap. Seeing as both ships would have been successful in the initial Co-Ordinate. Therefore, a "second" Co-Ordinated ship would need a completely different ship, outside the chain to Co-Ordinate to, to avoid wasting the Co-Ordinate on a stressed ship.

Does that sound a little better?

Ship 1 Hux

Ship 2 Generic Upsilon 1

Ship 3 Generic Upsilon 2

Ship 4 Generic TIE/FO

Hux to 2+3

2 to Hux

Both 2 and Hux are stressed

3 to either fail if FO is out of range, or waste on Hux/2 because they are stressed.

That seems a bit clearer.

But couldn’t u resolve 3 first. Declare coordinate as action hux to a coordinate. Select 1st ship ship 3 (for consistency) to coordinate a focus to ship 2, ships 3 has completed its chain and now takes a stress, select 2nd coordinate target as per hux ship 2 (who shouldn’t be stressed yet as it performed a white focus action) coordinate hux a white focus and ship 2 takes a stress. Hux coordinate action is now complete, takes a stress. Activate the other 2 ships, perform green. Ship 3 focuses and ship 2 jams. All three now have a focus, hux has stress, the other two don’t.

But, regardless of ability, the Co-Ordinate is completed when the first ship completes its Co-Ordinate... Just because you can double up doesn't mean you avoid stress for the whole thing, surely. Otherwise, there is the first points increase to Vader levels for First Order.

The whole point of the Red Action addition is to prevent this very thing. Otherwise, this edition is getting just as bad as it was previously, and we have all wasted a load of money, and we should have stuck with 1.0.

I mean, hey, you can't even run 4 ships with 3 Upsilon and Hux, too many points, even at the lowest Initiatives available.

I can see where you are coming from, but, it doesn't seem right, to avoid stress until you are stacked up, thus negating the very reason actions are rather precious. This really does need attention if it does chain that way... Can imagine U-Wings or Lamdas doing exactly the same thing, without their tactical officers...

i'm sorry i'm not at my PC, so i can't easily snip the RR.

the stress is received after the action is completed, though. coordinating doesn't stop before the coordinated ship performs an action, so you can indeed coordinate a hux carrier right back and let the hux carrier perform an action before it gains the stress from the red coordinate action.

timing wise, it's actions within actions within actions. that's what RAW lets you do with coordinate. it's good, but far from broken, especially since you have to pay for it.

i don't know how good the upsilon shuttle is. it has four attack, a great action bar and 12hp, but a bad dial. will be interesting to see if people start flying more of them.

personally, the ship doesn't really do it for me. i prefer tie/fos or just fang fighters.

23 hours ago, Damo1701 said:

But, regardless of ability, the Co-Ordinate is completed when the first ship completes its Co-Ordinate... Just because you can double up doesn't mean you avoid stress for the whole thing, surely. Otherwise, there is the first points increase to Vader levels for First Order.

The whole point of the Red Action addition is to prevent this very thing. Otherwise, this edition is getting just as bad as it was previously, and we have all wasted a load of money, and we should have stuck with 1.0.

I mean, hey, you can't even run 4 ships with 3 Upsilon and Hux, too many points, even at the lowest Initiatives available.

I can see where you are coming from, but, it doesn't seem right, to avoid stress until you are stacked up, thus negating the very reason actions are rather precious. This really does need attention if it does chain that way... Can imagine U-Wings or Lamdas doing exactly the same thing, without their tactical officers...

So normally I would agree except the Hux coordinate is 1 action, not 2. The way ur describing it (taking a stress after choosing the first ship) implies the action is complete, that means u could NEVER choose another ship regardless of action chosen as hux is now stressed. Hux doesn’t allow u to coordinate multiple times. He allows u to coordinate once with multiple targets. Still one action.

On 12/31/2018 at 3:36 AM, thespaceinvader said:

I'm dubious, there's a strong argument that the Coordinate is complete as soon as you select the ship(s) which are being targetted, per the RR for what is counted as a completed Coordinate.

Also, why are you using Hux on only a single target anyway?

I'm with this--I don't think the target action nests into the coordinate.

Literally nothing else in the game nests like how some folks are suggesting coordinate does; specifically they rewrote the rules on ability queues to avoid chains like this.

The closest parallel i an think of is r3 astromech. 1 action, 2 target locks. If the target lock action was red u would still get 2 locks and the second lock isn’t an action.

13 hours ago, Bigocto said:

Hux doesn’t allow u to coordinate multiple times. He allows u to coordinate once with multiple targets. Still one action.

I'm not sure.

As I read it, Hux allows you to perform one co-ordinate action treated as red, and to co-ordinate two additional ships.

That's not adding extra rules to the initial co-ordinate action, that's "you may co-ordinate", which is the non-action equivalent of "you may acquire a target lock" or "you may gain 1 focus token".So you do one red co-ordinate action (which stresses you) then co-ordinate two other ships (which you can do even if stressed as they're not actions).

A ship gains its stress token after it performs a red action.

When a ship performs the Coordinate action, it coordinates. A coordinating ship is a ship that is attempting to coordinate by performing the following steps:

1. Measure range from the coordinating ship to any friendly ships.
2. Choose another friendly ship at range 1–2.
3. The chosen ship performs one action.

The chosen ship performing an action is within the scope of 'the ship co-ordinates' (it's step 3), so whilst I want to agree with @theBitterFig , I'm not sure I can - you get your stress after the action is complete, the co-ordinate action is complete after you co-ordinate, and co-ordinating includes the chosen ship performing an action.

The chosen ship can fail the action and it still counts - the 'chain of events' doesn't collapse back to the co-ordinating ship - but it still gets to attempt before the co-ordinator gets stress. Which, yes, technically means U-Wings or TIE Reapers can bounce red co-ordinates along a chain of ships if you really, really want to.

It's not really a useful effect for hux, since if any ship co-ordinated tried to co-ordinate an action back to hux, then every ship involved would. Which seems like a silly use of actions.

Dauntless/Tactical Officer/ST-321/Sai is a good example of it actually doing some good, though.