I really think that BB-8 needs to cost less or have one more charge 8 points for just a boost option is kinda meh. Don't get me wrong I like it but...It needs more or needs to cost at least 1 to 2 points less. Let me know what you guys think.

When supernatural reflexes costs 12 BB-8 is hugely over costed but I think he’s been costednin line with the post January points revisions.

I play Resistance a lot and can never justify bringing BB-8. He costs the same as advanced sensors but requires you to reveal a blue and only has two charges. Both of the BB astros are about 2 points over costed maybe 3 for BB-8

I think if an extremely good mechanic like this feels slightly "meh" or "frustrating" to use/fit in lists its a sign thats its possibly properly balanced. Supernatural should have 2 charges as well and go up in cost.

1 hour ago, Dreadai said:

When supernatural reflexes costs 12 BB-8 is hugely over costed but I think he’s been costednin line with the post January points revisions.

You're also paying extra for a pilot who can take a force upgrade. Sup. Reflexes might be "cheap" compared to BB-8 but it has to go on a costlier pilot.

1 hour ago, Caduceus01 said:

I play Resistance a lot and can never justify bringing BB-8. He costs the same as advanced sensors but requires you to reveal a blue and only has two charges. Both of the BB astros are about 2 points over costed maybe 3 for BB-8

Advanced sensors doesn’t allow another action after the move, though.

1 hour ago, Matanui3 said:

Advanced sensors doesn’t allow another action after the move, though.

Yeah but it’s a pretty close comparison otherwise. Advanced Sensors also allows you to do any action you want before moving and doesn’t require a blue move

I think it would be fine at it's current price if it did not require a blue maneuver.

58 minutes ago, Incard said:

I think it would be fine at it's current price if it did not require a blue maneuver.

Or if you were able to use them while stressed without having to pay an additional 8 points for primed

5 hours ago, Caduceus01 said:

I play Resistance a lot and can never justify bringing BB-8. He costs the same as advanced sensors but requires you to reveal a blue and only has two charges. Both of the BB astros are about 2 points over costed maybe 3 for BB-8

But unlike Advanced Sensors, BB-8 doesn’t keep you from taking your normal action during your activation. So you can burn a charge, perform a boost/roll prior to maneuver, and then after maneuvering still take a focus/lock. Or a Focus to Roll linked action if you took a Boost with BB-8.

3 hours ago, Caduceus01 said:

Yeah but it’s a pretty close comparison otherwise. Advanced Sensors also allows you to do any action you want before moving and doesn’t require a blue move

Getting two actions is a Big Deal. Repositioning and still getting your focus is the main reason Push The Limit was so strong it had to be removed.

The other thing BB units allow is to pre-move position on ion moves. Not a common thing ion except that once a game you might do it to yourself. Being able to get boost/barrel roll before your 1 straight and a focus is really really good.

1 hour ago, Dreadai said:

The other thing BB units allow is to pre-move position on ion moves. Not a common thing ion except that once a game you might do it to yourself. Being able to get boost/barrel roll before your 1 straight and a focus is really really good.

Yeah Poe and Black One love BB when this scenario happens.

While it would be nice to have an additional charge, certainly, I suspect BB-8 is probably costed about right.

For comparison, named Rebel Astromechs get a points increase for an additional charge over the generic, but the ability it provides remains the same.

BB-8 has a point increase to provide additional flexibility by allowing you to either boost or barrel roll rather than only having the option to barrel roll.

I'd agree, however, that the requirement for a blue manoeuvre should be removed or at least changed to blue or white...

13 hours ago, Caduceus01 said:

Yeah but it’s a pretty close comparison otherwise. Advanced Sensors also allows you to do any action you want before moving and doesn’t require a blue move

That's like saying apples are close to oranges so they are the same.

BB 8 on Poe allows for crazy action economy and allows him to be stress free. Also I should add allows him to get full modded shots.
Boost/BR, energy to focus or TL, move, clear stress focus or TL.

Maybe an additional charge would be OK, but upgrades need to be costed for all pilots that can take them.

Even independently from the Supernatural Reflexes comparison, it does feel a bit overcosted.

If we need to compare it to anything, i’d compare it to afterburners. Which costs the same but conditionally lets you reposition after moving as a free action, also with 2 charges.

The thing is however that even Afterburners don’t see that much play, except maybe on Vader, and therefore seems overcosted as well.

And in contrast to BB-8, Afterburners don’t take away a heavily contested Astromech slot either. There is nearly always a cheap useful astromech that you can fit in. And in Poe’s case one could argue for Black One plus R2 astro at also 8 points, for a pretty unmolested shield recharge.

R3 or R4 also seem more viable on most Resistance pilots, and M9 does really cool things for cheaper than BB-8

With the way BB offers reposition before maneuvering, I’d say the best thing to compare it to is Advanced Sensors. Supernatural Reflexes is really good and expensive, but comes with the already surcharge of just being a force user. Advanced Sensors sits at about the same level.

Maybe seven points. Just ONE would be sensible.

Compare to afterburners - same charge limit, similar number of moves you can trigger it off, same price - you get boost or barrel roll, but don't get the "even if stressed" allowance.

25 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Compare to afterburners - same charge limit, similar number of moves you can trigger it off, same price - you get boost or barrel roll, but don't get the "even if stressed" allowance.

Yeah, agreed. They are comparable. But BB-8 takes up an astro slot which is a big thing, and both upgrades are on the rather pricey side for what they do.

I don’t see Afterburners picked a whole lot. Maybe also because in general it is often more efficient to keep ships lean to be point efficient, unlike in 1.0

Personally, I kind of wish the BB-type droids were recurring charges, but took multiple charges to use their effect. Leia crew is a good example: spend three charges, turn all your red moves white. BB-8 would spend 3 (or 4!) charges, give you a boost or barrel roll, and eventually recover the charges. There's still a strong aspect of saving the charges for when you need them, but potentially more uses over a long game. Realistically, it might even be used fewer times in a normal game, but there's potential. (Bah! Jessika Pava kind of monkey-wrenches this...)

As is... I guess things are fine. I wish the generic BB Astromech was 4 points, so you could fly 4x T-70 with them, that'd be cool. Not sure it'd be better than the other options, but I like the idea of it. But it's really easy to want upgrades I like to be cheaper.

22 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I think if an extremely good mechanic like this feels slightly "meh" or "frustrating" to use/fit in lists its a sign thats its possibly properly balanced. Supernatural should have 2 charges as well and go up in cost.

This isn't really true. While 1.0 isn't always a great analog, the original BB-8 was a 2pt droid (2.0 equivalent of 4) with effectively infinite charges and saw almost no play outside of niche builds. Bear in mind that was also a period where Primed Thrusters was 1pt, so even while stressed you could still BB it up.

If you look at the current BB's, 5pts for a situational Barrel roll twice...all the meh. Even at 3, I'm not sure how much I'd bother with them. I actually has a lot of limitations:

1. Doing a Blue maneuver, not that bad in the grand scheme of things, but you'd really want the hard 2 to be blue for it to be really great (which ironically requires a different astro)

2. Can't do it while stressed, I mean technically you can if you want to also equip Primed Thrusters, but that's a lot of points and boradly not worth it.

3. Limited charges. This is where this thing dies for me. I have 2 uses that can only barrel roll, have to be done on blues and can't be done while stressed (ironic because that's when I'm doing the most blues) unless I'm taking an 8pt upgrade.

Even for 5, that's basically trash. It's a 1.0 BB-8 that costs slightly more and that I can only use twice, but unless you were running intensity Poe or some weird PTL shenanigans, you never used that card. and BB-8 being 8 and having no additional charges is head scratchingly bad. Like, yeah you could compare BB-8 to Afterburners, but how many lists are we seeing that are bothering with afterburners? They're overcosted, not properly balanced and they certainly don't provide what I'd even approach calling an "extremely good mechanic". Then again, I'd probably put that label on most of the astros. Almost none of them see real play which is impressive considering how many there are an how many ships can use them, which is highly indicative that FFG missed the mark on how much players would value these abilities.

In the voice of Robert Muldoon: “They should all be moved to the systems phase!”

Like @theBitterFig said it's really easy to want upgrades I like. Personally I think a lot of the fix talk right now is due to a certain longing for some of the 1e abilities that no long exist in 2e. Not necessarily a bad thing but stop and think about all the b******g there was with token stacking, the need for strong aces with a good initiative bid, which still exists, a lot of post maneuver relocation, etc. Think about all the times you PS killed. Not a lot of fun.

The game is still young, in 2e terms, so you never can tell what changes are coming. A little patience, please.

8 hours ago, ForceM said:

Yeah, agreed. They are comparable. But BB-8 takes up an astro slot which is a big thing, and both upgrades are on the rather pricey side for what they do.

I don’t see Afterburners picked a whole lot. Maybe also because in general it is often more efficient to keep ships lean to be point efficient, unlike in 1.0

Afterburners also can’t be used in conjunction with Advanced Sensors, and some ships (like A-Wings or Interceptors) really don’t need it at all.