In my opinion the point cost of the Lancer does NOT feel too expensive other than maybe Ventress.

In the past I thought swapping the firepower 3 front arc with the firepower 2 turret, but now I am thinking of another route.(although I really feel the ship was always more about its turret...it even used to have a ship specific mod slot to do so)

The lancer has the dial of a small ship, what if she had a reposition action? While boost would be nice, the lancer is already the fastest ship in X-Wing(5 forward large base) and there are already a few large bases with boost.

Maybe give the lancer a non-stressful barrel roll to complete the large base that has the maneuverability of a small base feel?

Assuming we can change stuff on the card, the obvious answer is linked actions. It has the most amazing dial on a big ship in the entire game (being the only big ship left in the game with blue turns, Kanan crew and Outrider obviously excepted), but no way to generate stress on itself other than one K turn.

If it had focus linked... well, anything... it would be light years better.

Swapping the values of the guns around would also be good.

It's too expensive, but it also is a lot more fast and tanky than it is dangerous, and its shield ratio makes it bad at jousting despite the 3-forward primary. Right now, it's mostly just a more expensive Punishing One but with a better dial, and the Jumpmaster isn't really great as-is.

Cheaper would be good, but it still wouldn't have great damage output or support abilities, it'd just be kinda tanky. Needs some illicit upgrades that are half decent for it, or some upgrade slots added (Gunner? Torp?). Being able to run Dengar Asajj or Vet Turret Gunner Sabine would help it out, I think.

I was assuming the card can be changed because the Lancer has not been re-released yet.

The biggest things I can see are

-with its blue maneuvers it wants something stressful that gives it advantage

-it has great maneuverability so as much as I hate to admit, it doesn’t need it’s turret as much as other ships(although the turret is more firepower than it’s front arc in the lore)

-gunner slot? Hello? Why do so many scum ships lack a gunner slot while the tie striker and tie bomber and tie punisher don’t even have access to a turret, but have a gunner.

-armada’s lancer is a bomber, I wonder if that flavor can come into X-Wing and I don’t necessarily mean bombs.

2 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

-gunner slot? Hello? Why do so many scum ships lack a gunner slot while the tie striker and tie bomber and tie punisher don’t even have access to a turret, but have a gunner.

Most of the Scum ships are flown by characters that work independently and their canon representations show them being operated by a single pilot with no crew. The Lancer follows this pattern (both on-screen and in-game).

The lancer needs to be cheaper. giving it a crew slot would help. needs a way to abuse that awesome dial. scum has superior ship options for cheaper cost so it falls into the category of 'Why should I take this ship when anther ship is cheaper and does the same thing?". it doesnt have a point of difference and large base ships in general arent as strong as they were in 1.0. I think giving it a linked action that lets it rotate its turret would help a lot. its badly in need of some action economy.

If Jakku Gunrunner gets the expected points increase then Ketsu Onyo might see some play (he already does but just barely). With shadowcaster title he seems like pretty good control.

In a way giving Asajj force capabilities really hurts her price and denies her of faction specific force upgrades... a bit too expensive for what she does and left out in the cold

some way to do a double tap would be good. 3 dice primary followed by 2 dice turret attack. could be an added ability of the title card or give it a modification slot and add a specific card for this ship called gyroscopic repositioning?

if thats too powerful (it wouldnt be if was priced correctly) you could just get a free turret reposition action when u hit (from a primary attack)

9 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

some way to do a double tap would be good. 3 dice primary followed by 2 dice turret attack. could be an added ability of the title card or give it a modification slot and add a specific card for this ship called gyroscopic repositioning?

if thats too powerful (it wouldnt be if was priced correctly) you could just get a free turret reposition action when u hit (from a primary attack)

Double tap does not fix the Lancer, as Kavil in the Y-Wing can do that for cheaper at higher initiative, with a small base.

How about Banshee title to somehow buff firepower that way you can use shadowcaster title if you want CC or banshee title for offense.

It might also be interesting if it’s health pool went more toward shields kinda wierd that a ship this big has the same shield strength as X-Wings maybe 4 shields and 6 hull? Give Scum 1 ship with a bit of crit protection?

even in the lore this ship is basically a freighter size interceptor “ the Lancer was designed to chase down fleeing cargo vessels and outrun other patrol ships .”

If any ship should have had the ability to get a target lock outside of range 3 and not at range 1, it should have been this one.

Anyways, the fluff doesn't show turret gunner capabilities, only a copilot. What it does say curiously... " The ship's primary armament was comparatively light, but a state of the art fire control system - the MK.IV Fire Control System - made them incredibly potent. Beyond this, the craft held a number of hard points for customization, allowing for upgrades and improvements to its systems and weapons."

Sounds like a sensor slot at the least (although two might really give it a unique identity better) is proper. Lose one illicit slot. D rop title by 2.

Not being able to use shadow caster title out of primary arc is what hurts it more than anything else. Understand bumping primary down out of arc though.

4 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

Double tap does not fix the Lancer, as Kavil in the Y-Wing can do that for cheaper at higher initiative, with a small base.

Y-Wing doesnt have 8 shields and 2 agility and a crazy good dial. actually feels like Asajj should be higher initiative than 4 tho.

FFG isnt gonna overahaul the lancer. at most they will give it some single buff to make it more playable. maybe they will just make it cheaper?

6 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

If any ship should have had the ability to get a target lock outside of range 3 and not at range 1, it should have been this one.

Anyways, the fluff doesn't show turret gunner capabilities, only a copilot. What it does say curiously... " The ship's primary armament was comparatively light, but a state of the art fire control system - the MK.IV Fire Control System - made them incredibly potent. Beyond this, the craft held a number of hard points for customization, allowing for upgrades and improvements to its systems and weapons."

Sounds like a sensor slot at the least (although two might really give it a unique identity better) is proper. Lose one illicit slot. D rop title by 2.

Not being able to use shadow caster title out of primary arc is what hurts it more than anything else. Understand bumping primary down out of arc though.

problem with giving it a new upgrade slot (sensor or gunner) is its already too expensive

1 minute ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Y-Wing doesnt have 8 shields and 2 agility and a crazy good dial. actually feels like Asajj should be higher initiative than 4 tho.

FFG isnt gonna overahaul the lancer. at most they will give it some single buff to make it more playable. maybe they will just make it cheaper?

If they choose to make it cheaper its goint to have to drop 10 points in price and gain a gunner slot...

BUT, you can’t give the lancer a gunner slot because if you do the title would make you give 2 tractor tokens if you have veteran turret gunner, and 3 if you can line up ketsu’s pilot ability which would be painfully overpowered.

Also extremely expensive. Good and expensive is... fine.

2 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

If they choose to make it cheaper its goint to have to drop 10 points in price and gain a gunner slot...

BUT, you can’t give the lancer a gunner slot because if you do the title would make you give 2 tractor tokens if you have veteran turret gunner, and 3 if you can line up ketsu’s pilot ability which would be painfully overpowered.

yeah. tractor tokens r brutal but they could deal with that thru points easily enough. increase the title to 10 or something similar. Asajj at 84 has costed her out of the game. You can currently take Boba Fett with Marauder for 83! Even if Han gunner gets nerfed up to 8-10pts, Boba is gonna get drafted b4 Asajj because he is just superior damage dealer and has init 5 with a tanky reroll ability. My thinking on Asajj is u gotta put like 100pts on her b4 she is good enough to play. Compare with Boba who still eats lots of squad points but u can still team him up with 2-3 really decent pilots eg. Palob+ 4-LOM and/or Jakku, Palob+Kavil.

some linked actions is really what it needs.

evade >>> calculate (red)

target lock >>> calculate (red)

focus >>> rotate turret action (red)

linked actions giving stress would allow its dial to essentially cancel stress the next turn

6 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Assuming we can change stuff on the card, the obvious answer is linked actions. It has the most amazing dial on a big ship in the entire game (being the only big ship left in the game with blue turns, Kanan crew and Outrider obviously excepted), but no way to generate stress on itself other than one K turn.

If it had focus linked... well, anything... it would be light years better.

Swapping the values of the guns around would also be good.

Pretty much this. The lancer needs a way to generate stress.

Any kind of linked action would have been great, but there are potentially other options. They'd clearly be amazing with Han Solo Gunner, if they had a gunner slot. How about a configuration something like... "Adaptive Gyroscopes : In the end phase, you may perform a Red Rotate Action." That'd both be a means to take advantage of the dial, as well as make the arc a little less painful. Spending an action to get a 2-dice shot kinda hurts. Having an end-phase rotate gives options, but also forces early decisions which can be counter-played against.

I also think it could be a hair cheaper (like 2 points to start, see from there). In 1e, a low-upgrade generic Lancer was clearly better than a low-upgrade generic Firespray. Now, even at 2 points more, I think the Firespray is a good deal better. Better shields, reinforce, boost, a still solid dial. The fact that the blues are a little worse on the Firespray doesn't really matter, since the Lancer doesn't really get stressed.

I was really thinking a while what I miss on the lancer. The dial is so good, such a fast ship. Nearly too fast for the others of the scum fleet.

Have been using Ketsu as a jouster, mobile arc pointed forward for those tractor tokens. I like how it played, much more interesting than this gunship style of first edition.

What I was missing was some action economy. Tried to compensate with predator, but still... Sometimes you want to have this evade token, but then you have one reroll - maybe.

It is un-fixable. The 2-attack mobile arc, a single k-turn option, and no re-position make it un-competitive at almost any points costing. They killed it just like they killed the Jumpmaster. Expect a future scum ship that is very similar and will cost you $40-$50.

23 hours ago, Dengar5 said:

It is un-fixable. The 2-attack mobile arc, a single k-turn option, and no re-position make it un-competitive at almost any points costing. They killed it just like they killed the Jumpmaster. Expect a future scum ship that is very similar and will cost you $40-$50.

So scum are most likely getting a Jump-Lancer 6000 with 3 dice 720 firing arc?

I really hope it has two torpedo slots and a title that costs 3 and adds one extra attack dice at range 1-3.

10 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

If Jakku Gunrunner gets the expected points increase then Ketsu Onyo might see some play ( he already does but just barely). With shadowcaster title he seems like pretty good control

Someone never looked closely at the crew card... She.

32 minutes ago, Dengar5 said:

It is un-fixable. The 2-attack mobile arc, a single k-turn option, and no re-position make it un-competitive at almost any points costing. They killed it just like they killed the Jumpmaster. Expect a future scum ship that is very similar and will cost you $40-$50.

Rather extreme hyperbole here. Once they get more upgrade options (Illicits!) plus a possible points reduction, Lancers are bound to end up in a better place. Might be better to at least wait until the points update in January before crying that they killed anything, even the Jumpmasters at the right price would be worth using at the very least as tanky turret+torp boats or support (Manaroo).

Has anyone tried Hate+Maul Asajj? It's no 1.0 Timewalk Asajj, but having 3 Force bank with possible Evade and 2+ Force regen anytime she does takes damage seems rather annoying to try to bust through.

I tried the Lancer out earlier this week (for the first time in v2, after flying it tons in v1). I was up against three Zealot Fangs and a stock Bounty Hunter Firespray. I ended up in the arcs of them and the Lancer melted in two turns. Having to spend an action to correct the turret arc cost me initially, and then not being able to do much of anything after helped it die pretty quickly after. I'm tending to agree that it needs something to capitalize on the blue options on the dial, like the linked Focus that's been suggested. Or a return of the Gyroscopic turret and/or a gunner or crew slot.

Something. It just doesn't feel right at the moment. In future, I'd drop the Lancer from the list and just take Fenn in the Fang along with some other upgrades. The Lancer, as it is, feels like a very expensive liability right now.

Just now, Enigami said:

Rather extreme hyperbole here. Once they get more upgrade options (Illicits!) plus a possible points reduction, Lancers are bound to end up in a better place. Might be better to at least wait until the points update in January before crying that they killed anything, even the Jumpmasters at the right price would be worth using at the very least as tanky turret+torp boats or support (Manaroo).

Has anyone tried Hate+Maul Asajj? It's no 1.0 Timewalk Asajj, but having 3 Force bank with possible Evade and 2+ Force regen anytime she does takes damage seems rather annoying to try to bust through.

I did try Asajj with Hate on the second go with the list. It's okay, but up against the same triple Zealot Fang, it was just taking too much damage all at once to do anything. I haven't entirely given up on that option though.

19 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

So scum are most likely getting a Jump-Lancer 6000 with 3 dice 720 firing arc?

I really hope is has two torpedo slots and a title that costs 3 and adds one extra attack dice at range 1-3.

I'd rather a dual Missile slot, Turret slot, Gunner slot, Crew slot, Full Rear Arc 3 Primary, 2 Sloop, 3 Tallon, & 4 K Large base with white Reload, Boost, Focus, and Lock. A config that expands the secondary weapon ranges out to 3 and into 1 too.