Say that I have Lieutenant Tavson equipped with Electronic Baffle, and he's stressed. At the end of the turn, I decide to use the Baffle to remove the stress and take a damage. If I then use his ability to perform an action like Focus, do I get to carry that focus token over into the next round? Here's my rationale for doing so...

1. Per the rulings for the end phase, first ships remove their green and orange tokens, then recover charge tokens (standard and force) as is relevant. Both of these are game effects.
2. The Ability Queue states that game effects always take place before ship/upgrade effects.

Following those two rules, AFTER I've removed my green/orange tokens for the round, and recovered one of my ship charges (among any others I may have), I can baffle, remove a stress (or an ion, or lock!), then after receiving the damage, spend the charge I just recovered to (for example) perform a Focus or Reinforce action. Since the step requiring ships to remove round tokens has already passed, I hold the token until the subsequent end phase (unless spent earlier). The same could be true for assigning a Jam token to an enemy ship, or coordinating a similar action to another friendly ship.

Does this seem kosher to you folks?

It is the way it reads out to me.

Shame, I was hoping you could be sneaky and trigger baffle in between removing tokens and recovering charges. But I agree you'd do both before resolving baffle.

END PHASE
The End Phase is the fifth phase of the round.
During the End Phase, all circular tokens are removed from all ships.
Then, each card with a recurring charge icon recovers one charge.

Since you mentioned you can remove a lock with baffle, you wouldn't even need to perform a stop before hand, you can have a friendly ship lock Tavson and remove that instead. Too bad baffle isn't Hyperspace legal.

Seems about right to me.

It's far from a free token for You - cost you a point of damage and one of your charges. But it should stick.

I'm more concerned with fiddling with the enemy ships. I think both players should be past their "remove tokens" stage by the time the scenario triggers, but I might be wrong and it might be down to the Player Order to call if Jamming makes any sense.

8 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

Seems about right to me.

It's far from a free token for You - cost you a point of damage and one of your charges. But it should stick.

I'm more concerned with fiddling with the enemy ships. I think both players should be past their "remove tokens" stage by the time the scenario triggers, but I might be wrong and it might be down to the Player Order to call if Jamming makes any sense.

End Phase

The End Phase is the fifth phase of the round . During the End Phase, all circular tokens are removed from all ships. Then each card with a recurring charge icon recovers one charge.

• After this phase, the criteria for winning the game are checked.
• If the game did not end, the Planning Phase of the next round begins.

Ability Queue

The ABILITY QUEUE is used to resolve the timing of multiple abilities that trigger during the same timing window. Abilities are resolved from the front of the queue to the back of the queue. These abilities are added to the back of the ability queue using the following rules:

1. If both players have abilities that triggered from the same event, the abilities are added to the ability queue in player order.
2. If a player has multiple abilities that triggered from the same event, that player chooses the order that those abilities are added to the ability queue.
3. If resolving an effect from the ability queue triggers additional effects, they are added to the front of the ability queue using the above rules.

See Appendix for 2 examples of the ability queue.

• If there are game effects that share the same timing window as a player's ability, the game effect is resolved first.
  • For example, if a ship performs a red barrel roll and the ship has an ability that triggers after it performs a barrel roll, the ship gains a stress token before the other ability is resolved.

Looks like all circular tokens are gone when Baffle triggers.

I guess the question is, does the end phase continually check for round tokens to remove (this seems unlikely)? Or, does the End phase remove tokens once, at the start of the End phase, then ignore round tokens until the NEXT End Phase begins?

this is turning into a tongue twister...

51 minutes ago, ryfterek said:

It's far from a free token for You - cost you a point of damage and one of your charges. But it should stick.

I'm more concerned with fiddling with the enemy ships. I think both players should be past their "remove tokens" stage by the time the scenario triggers, but I might be wrong and it might be down to the Player Order to call if Jamming makes any sense.

I see it as situational at best, when you really need to get that red token off of your Upsilon for the next turn. But it's also a way to get two pre-activation actions onto a friendly ship via Coordinate (like barrel rolling Blackout from behind the asteroid he's hiding behind at the end of one turn, then giving him focus before he T-Rolls), or getting rid of a troublesome target lock that Lone Star has on Dark Helmet (only one man would dare give me the raspberry...)

Yeah, it's because we don't have clarification on the word "during". Same general lines of argument as the Autopilot Drone thing from wave 1.

On 12/29/2018 at 8:03 AM, emeraldbeacon said:

I guess the question is, does the end phase continually check for round tokens to remove (this seems unlikely)? Or, does the End phase remove tokens once, at the start of the End phase, then ignore round tokens until the NEXT End Phase begins?

I would argue that it does indeed continually check for tokens to remove because it is not a "start of the phase" or "end of the phase" effect, nor is it mentioned explicitly that this only happens once.
Granted the "then --- recover charge ---" would trigger again but the text on token "During the End Phase, each card with a recurring charge symbol recovers one charge." kinda covers for that one.

Thinking back to 1e, there was a somewhat similar case. The Illicit Cloaking Device could break, and force the discard of a cloak token "at the end of each round" (note that this text isn't the same as "in the end phase"). If it did, and the ship was equipped with a Stygium Particle Accelerator, it was ruled in the FAQ that the now-decloaked ship would keep the Evade token from SPA into the next turn.

That's by no means binding on Tavson, but certainly it doesn't lead us to doubt folk's initial impression that the Tavson trick worked.

MINOR NECROMANCY...

Have there been any relevant rulings, or consensus on this matter? When Tavson baffles, do the round tokens he generates (focus for self, jam for enemies, coordinate for others) stick around past the end of that round?

1 minute ago, emeraldbeacon said:

MINOR NECROMANCY...

Have there been any relevant rulings, or consensus on this matter? When Tavson baffles, do the round tokens he generates (focus for self, jam for enemies, coordinate for others) stick around past the end of that round?

the TO ruling for phoenix was that "during end phase" abilities resolve before tokens are removed and charges are recovered

no clue what the ruling for Toronto is

4 hours ago, svelok said:

the TO ruling for phoenix was that "during end phase" abilities resolve before tokens are removed and charges are recovered

no clue what the ruling for Toronto is

there was quite a bit i didn't like about the contents of that document. it's good that they put it out ahead of time, though. can't seem to find it now.

it's worth noting how they ruled certain interactions - and this is one of them. they certainly didn't go with RAW though.

RAW tavsons tokens stick around if he uses electronic baffle, since that happens after the timing where the tokens are removed. also, if quickdraw baffles and performs a bonus attack, her charge is spent until the next end phase and neither she nor the defender has any tokens to modify attack or defence dice with (unless you also baffle with tavson and coordinate quickdraw, or if you're shooting a moldy crow with focus tokens left over).

On 2/2/2019 at 12:15 AM, meffo said:

...her charge is spent until the next end phase and neither she nor the                def  ender has any tokens to modify attack or defenc  e dic  e...

QuickDraw may have Target Lock...

Has there been any update on the order of the end phase in regards to Tavson & Baffle?

17 hours ago, pitchfork06 said:

Has there been any update on the order of the end phase in regards to Tavson & Baffle?

nothing official, no.

On 4/13/2019 at 4:07 PM, meffo said:

nothing official, no.

Anything yet ?

8 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Anything yet ?

to my knowledge, no. game effects still trigger before player effects during the end phase according to RAW.

recurring charges are restored, round tokens removed etc., before baffle can trigger. tavson would be able to baffle, coordinate a focus or evade, for example - and that token wouldn't be removed until the end phase of the following round, unless it's spent or removed by some other effect before that.

On 8/12/2019 at 2:11 PM, meffo said:

to my knowledge, no. game effects still trigger before player effects during the end phase according to RAW.

 recurring charges are restored, round tokens removed etc., before baffle can trigger. tavson would be able to baffle, coordinate a focus or evade, for example - and that token wouldn't be removed until the end phase of the following round, unless it's spent or removed by some other effect before that.

This!

Since game effects (removing the tokens) would trigger BEFORE any abilities or upgrades so RAW... the aforementioned scenario works.