On 12/31/2018 at 2:00 AM, Okapi said:

I think the Black Sun Enforcer is probably the single most underrated pilot in the game. I've never seen anyone but me play one, but when I've used it my opponents have nearly always been genuinly surprised at how dangerous and tough it can be. The linked actions combined with the angled roll makes it uniquely squirrely. Even if you can't know exactly where your opponent will end up, you can reasonably guess where they can't shoot you, and, using your superior maneuverability, get there. Or just block them. It doesn't need upgrades, but if you're feeling confident, patient and have the points to spare, FCS can be pretty good.

Black Sun Enforcers are a solid choice for a decent fighter that comes in under 50pts. I think the reason people overlook the generic Starvipers is because you’ve got Guri on the top end looking really good.

11 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Black Sun Enforcers are a solid choice for a decent fighter that comes in under 50pts. I think the reason people overlook the generic Starvipers is because you’ve got Guri on the top end looking really good.

That's where the shockingly good balancing of the 'Vipers come in though. Guri is great, but she is also expensive. A +16 point surcharge for +3I and a great ability is expensive, but fair. I haven't tried Dalan or Xizor, but I like the fact that they are a whole 8 points cheaper than Guri.

Now if FFG could only differentiate Deathrain/Redline, Echo/Whisper, Kad/Teroch the same way, the I4 pilots might just see some play.

4 hours ago, Okapi said:

That's where the shockingly good balancing of the 'Vipers come in though. Guri is great, but she is also expensive. A +16 point surcharge for +3I and a great ability is expensive, but fair. I haven't tried Dalan or Xizor, but I like the fact that they are a whole 8 points cheaper than Guri.

Now if FFG could only differentiate Deathrain/Redline, Echo/Whisper, Kad/Teroch the same way, the I4 pilots might just see some play.

I like the strikers for the same reason (albeit in reverse) - Duchess is cheaper despite having the 'gold standard' I5, because high initiative manoeuvring is basically all she has going for her; by comparison Countdown and Sabbac have scarily good pilot abilities and cost more despite a point lower initiative.

8 hours ago, Okapi said:

That's where the shockingly good balancing of the 'Vipers come in though. Guri is great, but she is also expensive. A +16 point surcharge for +3I and a great ability is expensive, but fair. I haven't tried Dalan or Xizor, but I like the fact that they are a whole 8 points cheaper than Guri.

Now if FFG could only differentiate Deathrain/Redline, Echo/Whisper, Kad/Teroch the same way, the I4 pilots might just see some play.

I’ve really begun to enjoy Dalan. Guri’s an absolute monster, and is the top-end pick if you want a powerhouse Viper. But Dalan is tricksy, and more apt at using the linked actions. I had him using Daredevil, Adv Sensors, and Afterburners in a game and it worked out quite nicely. Athough stress tends to limit what you can do every other turn. There’s something really crazy about having Dalan start with a Daredevil 1-turn Boost, 3-speed blue straight, and then take a stress to turn back to his original facing.

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 5:56 PM, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Most underrated pilots?

my picks...

Scum: 4-LOM (honorable mention: Unkar Plutt)

Rebels: AP-5 (honorable mention: Chewbacca)

Imperials: Omicron Group Pilot (honorable mention: Echo)

First Order: Lt. Tavson (???)

Resistance: ??? (???)

I don't think 4-L0M is underrated... I think lots of people know hes really good.

Honestly other than the Sigma Squadron I don't really think there ARE any underrated pilots any more. At this point we've had going on 6 months to test all the wave 1 stuff, we KNOW what's good and what's not.

First of all: 4-LOM ist far away from "underrated"

Scum: Koshka Frost with 0-0-0 (honorable mention: Krassis Trelix with Ion Cannon)

Rebels: Braylan Stramm (honorable mention: Cassian Andor)

Imperials: Valen Rudor with Squad Leader. 32 Points for actions and even coordination in the engagemant phase. Nobody plays him in that way? Strange. (honorable mention: Storm Pilot Sq Ace)

First Order: Starkillerbase Pilot (honorable mention: Backdraft without Gunner)

Resistance: ??? (???)

There's an objective answer according to the tournament data collected by List Fortress and sorted by the Krayts.

Zeb Orellios
Night Beast
Kad Solus

The 3 pilots that had the highest number of top cut finishes and the lowest number of tournament appearances.

On 12/28/2018 at 11:47 PM, hargleblarg said:

Rebels: Han/Lando falcon.

Though expensive, the old yt actually still does a lot of work when built well. Both Han and Lando enjoy R2D2 crew as Han can reroll hit results and Lando has the action econ to flip any crits turned up by R2. This, combined with their ability to big boost out of arcs, makes them extremely surviveable. The biggest thing holding them back is not their high cost, but the lack of an effective wingman. Luke is the only viable ship rebels have to fly with the lovable rogues at the moment, but fitting both with sufficient upgrades is difficult.

I've seen a few people say similar things, but I've still not actually seen any evidence of it.

Rebel Han and Lando haven't won anything. They haven't appeared in any even vaguely successful lists. I haven't seen anyone get any success with them at game nights. When I've run them, they were very hard to use. Now, I'm a shoddy player so the last one isn't the best gauge. But I do understand when I've lost a game because I played badly and when I lost a game because something in the list or builds didn't work. Han and Lando both felt like the latter.

On 12/28/2018 at 11:47 PM, hargleblarg said:

Lando has the action econ to flip any crits turned up by R2. This, combined with their ability to big boost out of arcs, makes them extremely surviveable.

For example, both of these things depend on actions and you don't get any if you're blocked. Which is extremely easy to do.

1 hour ago, Tvboy said:

There's an objective answer according to the tournament data collected by List Fortress and sorted by the Krayts.

Zeb Orellios
Night Beast
Kad Solus

The 3 pilots that had the highest number of top cut finishes and the lowest number of tournament appearances.

I'd be careful about things like that.

That sort of data can be really deceptive if you have a small sample size. Ratios can get really inflated.

Have those pilots actually appeared in a statistically significant number of lists? If someone stuck Night Beast in as cheap filler, for example, in an otherwise strongish list and had a really favourable run to the top cut in terms of match ups, then it would only have appeared in one list (really low number of tournament appearances) but a 100% top cut conversion rate.

Obviously then saying "every time Night Beast has been used, he's made it to the top cut" would be extremely misleading.

I'm not sure what a statistically significant sample size would be without doing some work, but a starting point might be it's appeared at least once in a majority of all tournaments so far (i.e >50%) and flown by 3 or more different players.

25 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

I've seen a few people say similar things, but I've still not actually seen any evidence of it.

Rebel Han and Lando haven't won anything. They haven't appeared in any even vaguely successful lists. I haven't seen anyone get any success with them at game nights. When I've run them, they were very hard to use. Now, I'm a shoddy player so the last one isn't the best gauge. But I do understand when I've lost a game because I played badly and when I lost a game because something in the list or builds didn't work. Han and Lando both felt like the latter.

That's kind of my point though. Han and Lando are extra surviveable because they can dance out of arcs, but without a wingmate that can do the same, all that happens is the other half of your list gets cut down fast while Lando/Han often survive to see you lose to time. The absence of a suitable wingmate is a bigger problem for them then the ship chassis itself.

To your other point that they're easy to block, that's true only if you move predictably. Also, Han doesn't mind getting blocked as much since he can keep getting Han-modded rerolls.

On 12/31/2018 at 5:00 AM, Okapi said:

I think the Black Sun Enforcer is probably the single most underrated pilot in the game. I've never seen anyone but me play one, but when I've used it my opponents have nearly always been genuinly surprised at how dangerous and tough it can be. The linked actions combined with the angled roll makes it uniquely squirrely. Even if you can't know exactly where your opponent will end up, you can reasonably guess where they can't shoot you, and, using your superior maneuverability, get there. Or just block them. It doesn't need upgrades, but if you're feeling confident, patient and have the points to spare, FCS can be pretty good.

::Waves::

I've been on the BSE train for a while, nobody else I know has even put them on the table. I was messing with Boba plus two I4 Fangs, which btw are also really good for 50 points. I threw crack shot on them and had a stacked Boba, when my opponents had ships that were less than I4 or I moved after it's like having two mini-Fenns.

But after I tried the Fangs I noticed the cost on the Vipers and put a pair of them in and added some stuff to Boba, they were fantastic. Going from I4 on the Fangs to I3 on the BSE hurts a little but the trickiness of the curved barrel rolls made up for it because my opponents could never be quite sure where the Vipers would end up. Having the shield on top of the four hull is just icing.

Oh man, Muse with Pattern Analyzer and your talent of choice... Good gravy. I'm loving it.

On 1/4/2019 at 8:57 PM, Burius1981 said:

::Waves::

I've been on the BSE train for a while, nobody else I know has even put them on the table. I was messing with Boba plus two I4 Fangs, which btw are also really good for 50 points. I threw crack shot on them and had a stacked Boba, when my opponents had ships that were less than I4 or I moved after it's like having two mini-Fenns.

But after I tried the Fangs I noticed the cost on the Vipers and put a pair of them in and added some stuff to Boba, they were fantastic. Going from I4 on the Fangs to I3 on the BSE hurts a little but the trickiness of the curved barrel rolls made up for it because my opponents could never be quite sure where the Vipers would end up. Having the shield on top of the four hull is just icing.

I've been trying the generic StarVipers as well recently and they're honestly pretty buff. I've been surprised. It's been the I3 with Predator for me, and they're way better at actually using predator than the average generic would be because of those rolls.

But there's a big but, and that's that it's a very uphill struggle with them versus higher init with large numbers of repositioning options, particularly superkylo.

And they're hilarious when you compare them to the generic Phantoms. You should not be able to get a Phantom with Juke for the same cost as a Black Sun Enforcer with Predator.

I think Nightbeast is not underratet. For only 2 points more as an Obsidian he gains a extra Fokus. Even when he bumps. The same as in 1.0 he is really good. With the reduced number of Ini in 2.0 he can be a good choice for many squads with I2.

The extra good Obsidian.

My pick is the Alpha Squadron (TIE Interceptor). At 34 points it makes for a deadly heavy swarmer, disposably-cheap flanker or just capable filler. It dies just as easily as an Academy Pilot in theory, but being able to boost or roll and also get a focus or evade makes them a bit harder to kill in practice.

On 12/31/2018 at 5:37 PM, Kehl_Aecea said:

Resistance- Allo Astry. That guy has won me a few games already and I haven't seen him flown much. I usually strap an R2 to him and elusive to keep him alive while he t-rolls stress free.

Elusive won't recharge if you are using Ello's ability

For those flying echo: I also enjoyed flying her a lot in 1.0, but I find it hard to believe that her decloak shenanigans are enough to keep up with the nonsense that other ships can pull at i5/6. Advanced sensors guri, supernatural luke/kylo, BB astromechs, etc. Prove me wrong (I want to be wrong)! Also, what upgrades do you usually put on her?

2 hours ago, gadwag said:

For those flying echo: I also enjoyed flying her a lot in 1.0, but I find it hard to believe that her decloak shenanigans are enough to keep up with the nonsense that other ships can pull at i5/6. Advanced sensors guri, supernatural luke/kylo, BB astromechs, etc. Prove me wrong (I want to be wrong)! Also, what upgrades do you usually put on her?

People don't fly a lot of Scum round here, so I still haven't had to deal with Palob/4-LOM/Kavil. But against everything else Echo has generally been my star player.

The real trick, imo, is that she isn't the primary target in any of my lists. Once you're past the initial engagement, if Echo is in a decent flanking/supporting position, she can pretty much pick anywhere to be. So you can pick places that are difficult or impossible to cover, or that force difficult choices for the opposition. Then of course, she hits like anyone else.

I tend towards Juke + Collision Detector, but the upgrades aren't that crucial. It's more about what's in the rest of the squad and the areas of the board you put her in relation to everything else.