Hi FFG

As in title I want to report a few points why the original FFG X-Wing squad builder has a bad reputation.

In fact, me and many players I know in the German community preferrably use ANY other squad builder than the original.

I just looked inside the original one and altogether it's quite well, but still there are some things annoying, so I still use other 3rd party apps.

Pro: What I like

- I trust on the original to be up to date concerning point costs

- I just found the new (?) organized play variants, which I consider VERY interesting

- The app (iOS) is quite comfortable to use

- I like the card database and card preview

Cons: What I dislike

- Due to I'm a German player I prefer the original English version, because the German translation very often is awful

- In the app (iOS) there is no possibility to change language to English, German is default

- I could use browser version, but there are two scrolling bars that make usage uncomfortable (iPad mini)

- I cannot look at upgrade cards in saved squads, I have to "Edit" to watch them

As for me this is not too much, is it? Maybe in next update? I'd very much like to make the original squad builder app my favorite.

Well you could say the official app subverted our expectations

It is a testament to what would be considered professional quality in the tech industry and how that is more like a state of buyer beware. Here you have an app that a developer was paid for to develop. Now how much time and money this developer be it individual or team could be a determining factor, but it is safe to say a decent sum of money for such a project. So for quite some time, we have had 3rd party apps that did the exact same thing but were made for free, therefore officially an amateur project. However the unofficial amateur 3rd party apps were (and still are) superior to the professionally made official squad-building app in nearly every way. I am not sure if ASB has custom formats where you can turn on or off ships/pilots/upgrades but as far as list building and keeping up with the official formats go they are right on target and sometimes even more up to date than the official app. It is almost like money makes something worse.

So in the name of brevity there could be some simple reasons to why. As it has been pointed out on this board, it is not a revenue generating product therefore needs to cost as little as possible. So to save money a time constraint was placed on the project. Sure the amateur 3rd party developers didn't get any money, but they were not put on a clock and can develop their app at their leisure. The professional has a project, a deadline, a specified requirements, and a list of other projects/proposals, and other things to ensure business continues after the contract, and bills are paid. Also this interactive division of FFG is relatively new so the experience might not be there. Whereas the developers of things like YASB have been working on it for years so they have better knowledge on how their code works.

Still it is not unreasonable to expect better from FFG. Especially when so much of 2nd edition relies heavily on this product. Maybe in a year they will work out all the issues and clean up the UI. But for now everyone is content on using the 3rd party apps and pretend that this app doesn't exist (yet).

On 1/3/2019 at 7:35 AM, Marinealver said:

it  is not  a revenue generating p  roduct ther  ef    or  e nee  ds to cost as  little  as possibl  e

But really it is. It is simply a part of X-Wing 2.0 as much as an X-Wing model, an upgrade card or an attack die. You’re paying for the app through physical purchases, which now generally cost more than 1.0 equivalents. The official “app” is simply shoddy and low quality for a paid for product. I keep returning to it but there have been no discernible improvements other than bug fixes. I expect the same quality from the app as the rest of FFG’s products. That is high, very high.

10 hours ago, Sasajak said:

But really it is. It is simply a part of X-Wing 2.0 as much as an X-Wing model, an upgrade card or an attack die. You’re paying for the app through physical purchases, which now generally cost more than 1.0 equivalents. The official “app” is simply shoddy and low quality for a paid for product. I keep returning to it but there have been no discernible improvements other than bug fixes. I expect the same quality from the app as the rest of FFG’s products. That is high, very high.

Oh I agree, what other point is there to go into 2nd edition other than the replace the now bloated card based list building system which FFG had resorted to pretty much changing everything printed on the card to make it piratically useless. This is why I am fine with numbers changing and certain upgrades and pilots (but not models) being taken out, and less irritated on all the nerf herders who will no doubt be demanding for point increases. It is built in the core system. However that system currently is fundementally flawed, and it has to do with the bugs and clunky UI of the app.

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 2:57 AM, Sasajak said:

But really it is. It is simply a part of X-Wing 2.0 as much as an X-Wing model, an upgrade card or an attack die. You’re paying for the app through physical purchases, which now generally cost more than 1.0 equivalents. The official “app” is simply shoddy and low quality for a paid for product. I keep returning to it but there have been no discernible improvements other than bug fixes. I expect the same quality from the app as the rest of FFG’s products. That is high, very high.

Same here. And I keep being underwhelmed by the lack of function and lack of response to "what players want."

It really keeps me thinking "is this a game I'll even care about in another year?"

8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Same here. And I keep being underwhelmed by the lack of function and lack of response to "what players want."

It really keeps me thinking "is this a game I'll even care about in another year?"

I still think a lot of this is older players comparing it too much to other builders they use. As someone who never used any of the other builders, the main app works well, once they ironed out the initial bugs. There are things they may want to add eventually, but newer players who aren't comparing it to other squad builders are unlikely to even notice.

10 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I still think a lot of this is older players comparing it too much to other builders they use. As someone who never used any of the other builders, the main app works well, once they ironed out the initial bugs. There are things they may want to add eventually, but newer players who aren't comparing it to other squad builders are unlikely to even notice.

Well, this boils down to "ignorance is bliss," which, while true, might not be something to aspire to.

The bloomin' thing needs to be able to let players print a list. And a list you can use to play. . .not just cards and points. I would be fine if it exports it to a PDF that I then print--that functionality is almost there, but then falls short.

As an Epic player, I really don't want to have to source that many cards for a Wednesday night kitchen table game. Rounding up dials and ships is already plenty of prep work. The electronic component should make it easier to play; not the same or worse. That's why the other builders are successful.

On 1/13/2019 at 2:32 PM, Darth Meanie said:

The bloomin' thing needs to be able to let players print a list. And a list you can use to play. . .not just cards and points. I would be fine if it exports it to a PDF that I then print--that functionality is almost there, but then falls short.

As an Epic player, I really don't want to have to source that many cards for a Wednesday night kitchen table game. Rounding up dials and ships is already plenty of prep work. The electronic component should make it easier to play; not the same or worse. That's why the other builders are successful.

And as much as I agree with you, it will never happen because ffg is just as invested, if not more invested, in selling you cards than they are in selling you miniatures.

If you want a game that isn’t about selling you product, I can attest that Gaslands is pretty fun (and is in the beta testing phase for a 2.0 of its own, to simplify some of the rules and get all the expansion rules into the core book).

I will keep on playing my xwing, because I enjoy the game and I have my ships. I can’t wait for epic 2.0 (though I’m worried about if it will be a thing). But just being brutally honest - there is exactly zero percent chance ffg would ever make easy print outs of cards in a list to facilitate faster gaming setup.

4 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

And as much as I agree with you, it will never happen because ffg is just as invested, if not more invested, in selling you cards than they are in selling you miniatures.

FFG is invested in tournament play. Which requires you to show up with cards and miniatures. Also, you can't buy cards without a mini, so the whole thing is a moot point from a "required to purchase" point of view.

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If you want a game that isn’t about selling you product,

Actually, this is exactly the opposite of my point. I have bought the product, and I would buy more product , if FFG's keystone component actually worked well and had the functionality many people want.

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But just being brutally honest - there is exactly zero percent chance ffg would ever make easy print outs of cards in a list to facilitate faster gaming setup.

Yeah, probably.

But to what end? So that 3rd party products can remain superior to yours?? That just makes FFG look like a boob.

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I will keep on playing my xwing, because I enjoy the game and I have my ships. I can’t wait for epic 2.0 (though I’m worried about if it will be a thing).

And same here. But I have taken a giant step away from this game from a year ago. I am not really all that interested in its success because it still does not cater to Epic, Missions, or Narrative play. More than ever it feels like a game that is for one style of play only (even if it now has 2 pools of ships to choose from), and I have no interest in going to Worlds.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

FFG is invested in tournament play. Which requires you to show up with cards and miniatures. Also, you can't buy cards without a mini, so the whole thing is a moot point from a "required to purchase" point of view.

Actually, this is exactly the opposite of my point. I have bought the product, and I would buy more product , if FFG's keystone component actually worked well and had the functionality many people want.

But to what end? So that 3rd party products can remain superior to yours?? That just makes FFG look like a boob.

Yes, but ffg has learned if they limit card inventory, they end up selling more duplicates of a model that tournament players have no intention of fielding. Thus, they think they can force that same tournament mentality on the rest of us - no extra copy or means to facilitate that copy for you without the extra ships.

I don’t agree with them, I just see what they’re doing.

The end goal of FFG is to maximize selling of their product. They must have concluded through some calculus that folks like you or I are on the fringe and any loss of sales there is minimal compared to the increase elsewhere from the single format only playerbase.

As long as FFG is focused on tournament play, this will be the case. In the mindset of tournament play, money spent on the app is a waste as long as it lets try hards know the point costs and slots, it’s good to go.

Again, don’t agree with it. I just see how it’s going.

4 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Yes, but ffg has learned if they limit card inventory, they end up selling more duplicates of a model that tournament players have no intention of fielding.

Nice business model. Let's force people who don't want to buy our product to be obliged, meanwhile neglecting players like @weisguy119 who clearly spend a ton of money to play toy space ships just for fun.

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no extra copy or means to facilitate that copy for you without the extra ships.

Except for all the online images (available from their own newsfeeds, no less), resale markets, online builders, and online card designers.

Yeah, other than those 4 other sources (most of them free), they TOTALLY have a lock on the card market. 😂

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Thus, they think they can force that same tournament mentality on the rest of us

They must have concluded through some calculus that folks like you or I are on the fringe and any loss of sales there is minimal compared to the increase elsewhere from the single format only playerbase.

Ah well.

All I can say is that for my part, the less my game looks like X-Wing Miniatures, the less I need FFG.

I haven't converted to 2.0, I can't play Epic right now (officially), and I still have to write my own missions. Since the app doesn't work like I need it to, it's just one more step away from me needing any sort of official product.

9 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

And as much as I agree with you, it will never happen because ffg is just as invested, if not more invested, in selling you cards than they are in selling you miniatures.

...

Well that is sort of debatable because FFG is not selling cards. Heck the app takes the value of the cards away (though it still baffles me why they insists on upgrade cards being required at tournaments). Also the customer service has shown that cards are not a major expense. HEck you used to be able to show a proof of purchase for an X-wing raider expansions, claimed your Emperor Palpatine was lost or damage some how, and FFG Customer Service would ship you the upgrade free of charge. So FFG is not selling us cards, at least not for X-wing miniatures. Destiney, Arkham Horror, and Key Forge, yeah they are selling cards.