Okay, so to be up front, I'm having a hard time with the current edition. I'm using this exercise (multiple write-up attempts) to better wrap my head around the design.

Feel free to criticize or offer alternate versions of the school (both help me to learn).

Attempt #1: Daidoji Harrior Sabateur School [Bushi, Shinobi]

Harriers mainly served as scouts, saboteurs, and surveillance experts and were expected to be able to negate the advantage of fifty or more enemy soldiers. The Harriers willingly sacrificed their honor and their lives in order to protect the Crane. While their tactics rarely reduced the enemy numbers, they were effective in reducing enemy morale before a battle.

Rings: +1 Air, +1 Water
Starting Skills (choose five): +1 Command, +1 Fitness, +1 Labor, +1 Martial Arts [Melee], +1 Martial Arts [Ranged], +1 Skulduggery, +1 Tactics
Honor: 40
Techniques: Kata, Rituals, Shuji
Starting Techniques:
- Kata: <> Veiled Menace Style
- Kata (choose one): Striking as Air, Striking as Water
Sabateur (School Ability): Once per scene, as a downtime activity, you may sacrifice a number of points of honor up to your school rank to sabotage an object, trap an area, or entrench a landscape. During the next combat scene each opponent present receives strife equal to twice the honor points sacrificed.

This school is based loosely on the 3e core rulebook school. Where I've greatly deviated is the actual "Sabateur" school ability, where I've tried to create a unique mechanical benefit to the core identity of the school, rather than a generic bushi/shinobi build. I've struggled to populate each school rank with Kata/Shuji, as many didn't seem appropriate, and there is a very limited selection available. I've given explanations for each rank below

Rank 1:
Martial Skills (Skill Group)
Labor
Skulduggery
Smithing
Rank 1 Kata (Technique Group)
Cadence (Shuji)
<> Veiled Menace Style (Kata)

The Rank 1 "Iron Feather" ability from 3e is similar to the "Veiled Menace Style" kata. The "Smithing" skill is used to construct traps, the "Labor" to entrench. Cadence is meant to be used with hand signals while scouting.

Rank 2:
Trade Skills (Skill Group)
Command
Martial Arts [Melee]
Martial Arts [Ranged]
Rank 2 Water Shuji (Technique Group)
Lighting Raid (Shuji)
Pelting Hail Style (Kata)

At Rank 2, the "Command" skill ties in nicely with the "Lightning Raid (Fire)" and "Slippery Maneuvers (Water)" shuji. Both seem thematically appropriate. The "Pelting Hail Style" synergizes with their "Sabateur" school ability to add even more strife to their opponents.

Rank 3:
Martial Arts Skills (Skill Group)
Courtesy
Skulduggery
Smithing
Rank 3 Kata (Technique Group)
Skulk (Ninjutsu)
<> A Samurai's Fate (Shuji)

The Rank 3 "Vengeful Ghost" ability from 3e is almost identical to the "Skulk" ninjutsu technique. I'm not sure how I feel about "A Samurai's Fate" shuji being in here, but there wasn't anything better that I could find, and it kind of ties in with the Harrier sacrificing their lives.

Rank 4:
Scholar Skills (Skill Group)
Command
Martial Arts [Melee]
Martial Arts [Ranged]
Rank 4 Air Shuji (Technique Group)
Breath of Wind Style (Kata)
Crashing Wave Style (Kata)

At Rank 4, the "Wolf's Proposal Air Shuji" allows the more experienced Harrier to hide their dishonorable nature. I'm not 100% sold on the "Breath of Wind Style" or "Crashing Wave Style" kata being present, but I couldn't find anything that worked better.

Rank 5:
Martial Skills (Skill Group)
Courtesy
Skulduggery
Rank 5 Kata (Technique Group)
Silencing Stroke (Ninjutsu)
Buoyant Arrival (Shuji)

This rank is just a mess, in my opinion. I really struggled to find anything thematically appropriate, and it felt like I was just retreading old ground, while tacking on a Ninjutsu technique for lack of anything better.

Rank 6: ...

I don't have a clue where to even start with this capstone ability...

Attempt #2: Daidoji Harrior Skirmisher School [Bushi, Shinobi]

Daidoji Harriers are expected to turn the tide of conflicts nearly single handedly, as Crane commanders are instructed to count one Harrier able to negate the advantage of fifty or more enemy soldiers. The Harriers are not assassins, and do not poison or murder unwary opponents, but feel that attacking armed and readied enemies is always honorable, no matter if the Daidoji is noticed or not. A Harrier strikes from the shadows, cutting down his foes before they can respond.

Rings: +1 Air, +1 Water
Starting Skills (choose five): +1 Command, +1 Fitness, +1 Labor, +1 Martial Arts [Melee], +1 Martial Arts [Ranged], +1 Skulduggery, +1 Tactics
Honor: 40
Techniques: Kata, Rituals, Shuji
Starting Techniques:
- Kata: <> Veiled Menace Style
- Kata (choose one): Hawk's Precision, Soaring Slice
Opportunist (School Ability): When attacking an opponent who is Dazed, Disoriented, Incapacitated, or Prone, you may add a number of kept attribute dice set to advantage results equal to your school rank.

This school is based more closely on the 3e core rulebook school, where the build largely ignored the sabateur aspect, and instead focused on mechanical benefits of "attacking a foe from higher ground, while flanking, or if they are unaware of your presence". I've tried to synergize the school ability, starting kata, and rings to better attack foes suffering from conditions. I chose this rather than the "higher ground, flanking, unaware" to prevent abuse of this ability, since a grid isn't required for this edition and "flanking" could be the default option for a munchkin player.

Rank 1:
Trade Skills (Skill Group)
Martial Arts [Melee]
Martial Arts [Ranged]
Tactics
Rank 1 Kata (Technique Group)
<> Tactical Assessment (Kata)
Cadence (Shuji)

The "Tactical Assessment" kata, when used in Water stance, allows the terrain to have the obscuring quality for the first attack against you, which is great for setting up ambushes.

Rank 2:
Martial Arts (Skill Group)
Command
Labor
Skulduggery
Rank 1-2 Kata (Technique Group)
Slipper Maneuvers (Shuji)
<> Flowing Water Strike (Kata)

The "Slipper Maneuvers" shuji is similar to the "Tactical Assessment" kata, in that it adds the obscuring quality to the terrain again. The continued use of these similar abilities could be seen as "dishonorable" combat. The "Flowing Water Strike" kata allows the Harrier to quickly close distances. The "Labor" skill represents digging ditches, holes for calvary to catch horses' feet in, etc.

Rank 3:
Scholar Skills (Skill Group)
Command
Martial Arts [Melee]
Smithing
Rank 1-3 Kata (Technique Group)
<> Breath of Wind Style (Kata)
Skulk (Ninjutsu)

The "Breath of Wind Style" kata causes opponents to become Disoriented, which procs both the School Ability plus the "Veiled Menace Style" kata. The "Skulk" ability allows the Harrier to disappear after attacking if in obscuring terrain, while the "Smithing" skill is used for making traps.

Rank 4:
Social Skills (Skill Group)
Martial Arts [Melee]
Martial Arts [Ranged]
Skulduggery
Rank 1-4 Air Shuji (Technique Group)
Iron in the Mountains Style (Kata)
A Samurai's Fate (Shuji)

The "Iron in the Mountains Style" causes opponents to become Prone, which also procs the School Ability. The access to the Rank 4 Air Shuji gives the Harrier the chance to purchase "Wolf's Proposal" if they wish to appear more honorable. Using "A Samurai's Fate" allows your fellow Harrier's to temporarily ignore some critical strikes.

Rank 5:
Martial Skills (Skill Group)
Culture
Government
Skulduggery
Rank 1-5 Kata (Technique Group)
Buoyant Arrival (Shuji)
The Immovable Hand of Peace (Shuji)

Okay, so it looks like all Bushi have two of five Rank 5 Shuji abilities... Gotcha. I just chose two that looked like they may work with the build. The inclusion of "Culture" and "Government" skills represent the Harrier taking a leadership role and looking more at the "big picture".

Rank 6:
Move like Shadows (Mastery Ability): Your school ability now applies when flanking an opponent.

Rank 6 is basically permission to abuse that first ability, with 5 advantages on any attack roll against a flanked opponent. While is seems powerful, a 2v1 with Rank 5 characters likely isn't going to last long anyways.

This school build seems... uninspired... to me. It's basically a series of mechanical benefits that do a good job of recreating the 3e build (perhaps minus some of the skills at various ranks), but is basically just a hit-and-run shinobi. While this leaves any saboteur missions up for an exciting adventure, the inclusion of other party members will quickly prevent the stealthy approach.

I've noticed that it is easier to build a school if I outline the most essential kata/shuji, then have them either accessible at earlier ranks, or have them the only kata/shuji available at a particular rank, to help promote a more directed build. Same goes for skills at early ranks.

Yes... this thread has basically become a journal of my thoughts... 😄

So looking through the core rulebook again, many techniques fall into one of several categories:

- (Conflict roll). Once per scene, add a number of kept ring dice set to advantage results equal to your school rank. (Kaiu Engineer, Doji Diplomat)
- (Non-conflict roll). Add a number of kept ring dice set to advantage results equal to your school rank. (Asahina Artificer)
- (Non-conflict roll). Substitute school rank for skill group . (Kitsuki Investigator, Asako Loremaster)
- (Exchange) Once per round, exchange (school rank in fatigue, school rank in strife, 2x school rank in damage taken by ally, enraged condition) for another selection (Daidoji Iron Warrior, Akodo Commander, Matsu Berserker)
- (Exchange) Once per scene, exchange (2x school rank in selection) for another selection (Ikoma Bard)
- (Damage TNs) Once per round, reduce/increase severity of critical strike by school rank (Hida Defender, Kakita Duelist)
- (Damage TNs) Once per round, under specific conditions, increase severity of damage/deadliness by school rank (Shosuro Infiltrator)

These are probably the safest way to build a School Ability. I'll edit this post later when I go through the remainder of schools in more detail. In the meantime, my son wants the laptop to watch "those guys that drop stuff from the high tower" on YouTube.

1 hour ago, Shinjo Koetsu said:

Yes... this thread has basically become a journal of my thoughts... 😄

So looking through the core rulebook again, many techniques fall into one of several categories:

- (Conflict roll). Once per scene, add a number of kept attribute dice set to advantage results equal to your school rank. (Kaiu Engineer, Doji Diplomat)
- (Non-conflict roll). Add a number of kept attribute dice set to advantage results equal to your school rank. (Asahina Artificer)
- (Non-conflict roll). Substitute school rank for skill group . (Kitsuki Investigator, Asako Loremaster)

These are probably the safest way to build a School Ability. I'll edit this post later when I go through the remainder of schools in more detail. In the meantime, my son wants the laptop to watch "those guys that drop stuff from the high tower" on YouTube.

That's a useful observation on the school techniques.

You mean the mad Australians in How Ridiculous? There's a certain appeal, I admit...

14 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

You mean the mad Australians in How Ridiculous? There's a certain appeal, I admit...

Hahaha. That's the one.

6 hours ago, Shinjo Koetsu said:

So looking through the core rulebook again, many techniques fall into one of several categories:

- (Conflict roll). Once per scene, add a number of kept attribute dice set to advantage results equal to your school rank. (Kaiu Engineer, Doji Diplomat)
- (Non-conflict roll). Add a number of kept attribute dice set to advantage results equal to your school rank. (Asahina Artificer)
- (Non-conflict roll). Substitute school rank for skill group . (Kitsuki Investigator, Asako Loremaster)

- (Exchange) Once per round, exchange (school rank in fatigue, school rank in strife, 2x school rank in damage taken by ally, enraged condition) for another selection (Daidoji Iron Warrior, Akodo Commander, Matsu Berserker)
- (Exchange) Once per scene, exchange (2x school rank in selection) for another selection (Ikoma Bard)

- (Damage TNs) Once per round, reduce/increase severity of critical strike by school rank (Hida Defender, Kakita Duelist)
- (Damage TNs) Once per round, under specific conditions, increase severity of damage/deadliness by school rank (Shosuro Infiltrator)

These are probably the safest way to build a School Ability.

Updated to include more templates for creating new school abilities. Some of these (Hida Defender, for example) required a little more balancing than just "school rank" to reduction, but this is the basic progression.

9 hours ago, Shinjo Koetsu said:

attribute  dic  e set to adv  antag  e results

Do you mean Ring dice set to an opportunity result?

I like the first take on the school (with the saboteur vibe); it does require some work as the school ability is not standard (good job on the inventory of typical school abilities btw). A few things:

- Veiled Menace is both in the starting techs and in the R1 curriculum, so this is redundant

- The ability should be usable in skirmish and mass battle (for the latter, requiring a crew to help you trap large swathes is terrain); in mass battle, replace Strife by Panic for the cohort entering the terrain and you’re set.

- An idea for rank 6 would be to make the school ability deal damage / attrition in addition to Strife / panic. That can be nasty.

55 minutes ago, Franwax said:

Do you mean Ring dice set to an opportunity result?

I like the first take on the school (with the saboteur vibe); it does require some work as the school ability is not standard (good job on the inventory of typical school abilities btw). A few things:

- Veiled Menace is both in the starting techs and in the R1 curriculum, so this is redundant

- The ability should be usable in skirmish and mass battle (for the latter, requiring a crew to help you trap large swathes is terrain); in mass battle, replace Strife by Panic for the cohort entering the terrain and you’re set.

- An idea for rank 6 would be to make the school ability deal damage / attrition in addition to Strife / panic. That can be nasty.

I really like those suggestions. I'll make that change tomorrow. Thanks!

I really like what you with the first attempt. (but i think your school ability should be in rank 6).

Thank you.

We can make a Title:

Status Award: +0
XP to Complete: 24
Vengeful Ghost (Title Ability):
Once per scene, as a downtime activity, you may sacrifice a number of points of honor up to your school rank to sabotage an object, trap an area, or entrench a landscape. During the next combat scene each opponent present receives strife equal to twice the honor points sacrificed.

Rank 2
Martial Skills / Skills Group

Fitness / Skill

Skulduggery / Skill

Tactics / Skill

Rank 1-2 Kata / Technique Group

♦ Skulk (Ninjustu) / Technique

Lighting Raid (Shuji) / Technique

Attempt #3: Daidoji Harrier __________ School [Bushi, Shinobi]

Okay, trying something different here. I'm focusing on the base school, with different "School/Mastery Abilities" added in later. This will hopefully direct the conversation in two different directions, focusing on skills/techniques separately from the school/mastery abilities.

Rings: +1 Air, +1 Water
Starting Skills (choose five): +1 Command, +1 Fitness, +1 Labor, +1 Martial Arts [Melee], +1 Martial Arts [Ranged], +1 Skulduggery, +1 Tactics
Honor: 40
Techniques: Kata, Rituals, Shuji
Starting Techniques:
- Kata: <> Tactical Assessment
- Kata (choose one): Striking as Air, Striking as Water
__________ (School Ability): Options listed at the bottom.

I changed the starting kata from "Veiled Menace Style" to "Tactical Assessment" to better represent ambushing in larger combats rather than assassinating. They still have early access to "Veiled Menace Style" at Rank 1. I've left out the School Ability to be discussed at the bottom.

Rank 1:
Trade Skills (Skill Group)
Martial Arts [Melee]
Smithing
Tactics
Rank 1 Kata (Technique Group)
<> Veiled Menace Style
Cadence (Shuji)

Trade Skills give access to Labor (ditch digging), Skulduggery (stealth), and Survival (when scouting), so this was important enough to be an entire skill group. The Tactics skill is important for rolling initiative and getting advantages to be able to use the "Tactical Assessment" kata in the first round (in Water Stance) to allow the Harrier to attack from obscuring terrain. As a bushi I wanted to give them one Martial Arts skill, and I chose Melee. Because I didn't want the non-"Skill Group" skills to all be from the same skill group, I chose Smithing (for building traps) rather than Martial Arts [Ranged]. Overall I'm pretty happy with the Rank 1 skills/techniques here.

Rank 2:
Martial Arts (Skill Group)
Command
Courtesy
Skulduggery
Rank 1-2 Kata (Technique Group)
Lighting Raid (Shuji)
Slipper Maneuvers (Shuji)

Access to "Slipper Maneuvers" allows the Harriers to retreat back into Obscuring Terrain, giving them access to hit-and-run tactics, while the "Command" skill lets them use it effectively. The Rank 1-2 Kata, combined with the Mart Arts Skill Group, really allows them to begin to individualize their fighting style. "Courtesy" is there only because they are Crane, and I needed something to fill the gap. Same goes for "Lighting Raid", which is a Fire Shuji... gap filler.

Rank 3:
Trade Skills (Skill Group)
Command
Martial Arts [Melee]
Sentiment
Rank 1-3 Kata (Technique Group)
<> Skulk (Ninjutsu)
Touchstone of Courage (Shuji)

Skulk allows the Harrier to begin to really improve on their hit-and-run techniques, disappearing back into the terrain. The "Trade Skill Group" allows them to increase their Skulduggery skill to better improve Skulk. The "Touchstone of Courage" shuji allows the Harriers to maintain their composure when facing 50-1 odds, and is aided by the "Command" skill again. Sentiment is thrown in to round out the Harrier, as well as allow them to understand how to frustrate their opponents.

Rank 4:
Social Skills (Skill Group)
Government
Martial Arts [Ranged]
Tactics
Rank 1-4 Air Shuji (Technique Group)
A Samurai's Fate (Shuji)
<> Pin the Fan (Kata)

The inclusion of "A Samurai's Fate" goes along with the "Touchstone of Courage" from Rank 3. The idea is to use "Command" (in the Social Skills group) to allow your team of Harriers to fight against poor odds. Otherwise this school rank is basically to round out the character. Combat focused characters can instead choose to focus on Command/Tactics to increase their initiative rolls. The "Pin the Fan" kata allows for deadly ranged attacks, allowing the character to specialize more into ranged combat if they wish.

Rank 5:
Martial Skills (Skill Group)
Culture
Government
Skulduggery
Rank 1-5 Kata (Technique Group)
Buoyant Arrival (Shuji)
The Immovable Hand of Peace (Shuji)

The Rank 5 Shuji feel out of place, in my opinion, in all of the Bushi schools, but they are included regardless. Otherwise I feel that this is a pretty safe (if uninspired) school rank.

Rank 6:
__________ (Mastery Ability): Options listed at the bottom.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Okay, so I feel like this is my strongest attempt so far at skills/techniques per school rank. Now for the controversial stuff... school/mastery abilities... Below are a lot of ideas thrown out there (with the "Saboteur" and "Gaijin Pepper" ideas refined by Franwax).

Saboteur (School Ability): Once per scene, as a downtime activity, you may sacrifice a number of points of honor up to your school rank to sabotage an object, trap an area, or entrench a landscape. If the next combat is a skirmish, your opponent enters the combat with strife equal to twice the number of honor points sacrificed. If the next combat is a mass battle, the cohort enters combat with panic equal to twice the number of honor points sacrificed.

Gaijin Pepper (Mastery Ability): Your Saboteur school ability now deals damage/attrition equal to twice the number of honor points sacrificed in addition to strife/panic.

Entrapment (School Ability): Once per scene, as a Movement and Scheme action, you may designate terrain a minimum of Range 3 from you, and spend a Void Point to choose a single Terrain Quality (Pg 267) from the following: Dangerous, Entangling, Obscuring. This Terrain Quality applies only to your opponent. You may then take the Maneuver action (Pg264) to retreat to this terrain.

Opportunist (School Ability): Once per scene, you may designate that you are attacking from higher ground or while flanking. You may add a number of Attribute Dice set to Advantage results equal to your school rank.

BTW, I am well aware that my school/ability names are generic and not 3e accurate, but I feel that this is more concise for the time being.

Okay... thoughts on (a) school skills/techniques by rank, and (b) school/mastery abilities?

2 hours ago, ludo199 said:

We can make a Title:

If there were already a Daidoji Scout school, I think this would be a great solution for a less-honorable version.

Just a nitpick: skulk should have a diamond shape in front of it, as it is not a technique normally accessible.

Otherwise, each rank is very well thought through and explained.