Torps shoud either not change at all, or go up 1 (to 10 ) and generic T65s go DOWN 1 (to 40 ).

Then, we'd all get our 5X swarm back (not as good, albiet), and you still couldn't get more than 4 with torps.

That would be just the tip of the Torp balance problem if points changed...

Then there's Punishers and Y-Wings and E-Wings and TIE Bombers and M12s and Fang Fighters and Jumpmasters (uh oh). ... And Gunboats and Decimators and Starvipers.

I'm pretty sure at least some of these chassis are costed with Torp spamming in mind. They'd have a huge to-do to shift points of torps, unless they just didn't care and spiked torps to push them out of the meta.

6 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

generic T65s go DOWN 1 (to 40 )

Put 5 Blue Squad T-65s with configs on the table against 5 Marauder K-Fighters play it out then reassess your position on this... The Torps aren't the only reason they cost what they do.

11 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Put 5 Blue Squad T-65s with configs on the table against 5 Marauder K-Fighters play it out then reassess your position on this... The Torps aren't the only reason they cost what they do.

I guess I'd be up for some cheaper Ks then, too... 37 points?

20 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

...

14 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I guess I'd be up for some cheaper Ks then, too... 37 points?

I would like to say ya, but then you're looking at them having a total of 10 homing missile shots (2 salvos of 5) on top of their 3 red primary. I may dislike High Init Aces, but erasing them in one turn might be a bit much.

2 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Torps shoud either not change at all, or go up 1 (to 10 ) and generic T65s go DOWN 1 (to 40 ).

Then, we'd all get our 5X swarm back (not as good, albiet), and you still couldn't get more than 4 with torps.

That would be just the tip of the Torp balance problem if points changed...

Then there's Punishers and Y-Wings and E-Wings and TIE Bombers and M12s and Fang Fighters and Jumpmasters (uh oh). ... And Gunboats and Decimators and Starvipers.

I'm pretty sure at least some of these chassis are costed with Torp spamming in mind. They'd have a huge to-do to shift points of torps, unless they just didn't care and spiked torps to push them out of the meta.

the problem with this is that all generics are overcosted, by varying amounts.

With 40 point T-65's at i2, you are looking at stuff like 20 point TIE Fighters and 30 point TIE Strikers as well.

While 40 points for the T-65 is probably fair, I doubt FFG will actually price generics correctly as it will require far more numbers to be adjusted. I expect they will take the lazy way out and hit the massive swathe of i5/6 pilots we see dominating the meta with some adjustments.

Also, expect to see proton torps at 12+. Proton Torps are the most powerful upgrade in the game right now, and are the driving factor behind the current i5 bid war.

9 hours ago, drjkel said:

Sometime in March.

2020.

10 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

I would like to say ya, but then you're looking at them having a total of 10 homing missile shots (2 salvos of 5) on top of their 3 red primary. I may dislike High Init Aces, but erasing them in one turn might be a bit much.

How are I2 Kihraxz getting locks on an I5/6 ace? If it was a good strategy, you could do it already with 7 Z-95s, or a swarm of TIE Bombers or A-Wings or something.

10 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Torps shoud either not change at all, or go up 1 (to 10 ) and generic T65s go DOWN 1 (to 40 ).

Then, we'd all get our 5X swarm back (not as good, albiet), and you still couldn't get more than 4 with torps.

That would be just the tip of the Torp balance problem if points changed...

Then there's Punishers and Y-Wings and E-Wings and TIE Bombers and M12s and Fang Fighters and Jumpmasters (uh oh). ... And Gunboats and Decimators and Starvipers.

I'm pretty sure at least some of these chassis are costed with Torp spamming in mind. They'd have a huge to-do to shift points of torps, unless they just didn't care and spiked torps to push them out of the meta.

Fixing torps makes fixing those ships easier.

Generic E-Wings are priced so that you can't take 3 double modded Proton Torpedo shots round 1 of combat. Making torps more expensive means that can stay the same, while E-Wings get cheap enough for people to actually use them. Make torps 15 points and you can make Knaves, like, 53 points or whatever.

hmm, torps going up and E-Wings going down in points could work. i think they might be using the x-wing/T-65 as the baseline ship? so they still want to be able to take 3 named x-wing pilots with torps.

3 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

hmm, torps going up and E-Wings going down in points could work. i think they might be using the x-wing/T-65 as the baseline ship? so they still want to be able to take 3 named x-wing pilots with torps.

I would expect no changes to Extended ships beyond (potentially) the most obviously mispriced: Phantom, Punisher. You *might* see changes on the Gunrunner, but I’m not so sure about that.

They want us playing 2nd Edition and Hyperspace formats, and they don’t have the resources to fix all of Extended. They’re too conservative to tinker too much beyond what’s clearly necessary. Expect most of the price fixes to come in Hyperspace ships.

2 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I would expect no changes to Extended ships beyond (potentially) the most obviously mispriced: Phantom, Punisher. You *might* see changes on the Gunrunner, but I’m not so sure about that.

They want us playing 2nd Edition and Hyperspace formats, and they don’t have the resources to fix all of Extended. They’re too conservative to tinker too much beyond what’s clearly necessary. Expect most of the price fixes to come in Hyperspace ships.

That you think these are the most mispriced means I don’t know how seriously I can take you.

If you mean Redline, say Redline. If you mean Whisper say Whisper (i’d disagree with the groupthink on that too, especially in an i5/6 Protorp and Palob meta). But the chassis is not undercosted.

Also that you call out these while ignoring the far more onerous Scum stuff? Meh.

January 15th

Redline +4

Jakku +4

Protons =

TIE/Bombers +2

Wedge +2

Ewing -4, +Tech

I think they will balance around the torpedo, without changing the torpedo. Half the point of being able to change points was to address individual problems without having to kill one specific card. Torpedoes are good, but only on certain carriers right now. They are not so good that anything that can take one does. Address the combo, not the pieces.

7 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

January 15th

Redline +4

Jakku +4

Protons =

TIE/Bombers +2

Wedge +2

Ewing -4, +Tech

I think they will balance around the torpedo, without changing the torpedo. Half the point of being able to change points was to address individual problems without having to kill one specific card. Torpedoes are good, but only on certain carriers right now. They are not so good that anything that can take one does. Address the combo, not the pieces.

wedge is fine. redline at +4 is still too cheap. Jakku +4 is max they will do imo. han gunner on kavil more of a problem than han on boba.

wonder if trajectory simulator will get hit with an increase? Juke probably +2, or +4.

3 hours ago, millertime059 said:

That you think these are the most mispriced means I don’t know how seriously I can take you.

If you mean Redline, say Redline. If you mean Whisper say Whisper (i’d disagree with the groupthink on that too, especially in an i5/6 Protorp and Palob meta). But the chassis is not undercosted.

Also that you call out these while ignoring the far more onerous Scum stuff? Meh.

I don’t know anything that isn’t public, so you don’t need to take me any more or less seriously than anyone else on the forum? I put very little stock in almost anything written on here, and suggest you do the same.

Re: punishers, there’s an argument to be made that they’re all costed wrong, and that fixing Redline prices would only make that more apparent. Similar argument for Phantoms - I love four juke sigmas, but maybe that’s not good balance. My local meta isn’t dominated by I5s, so I’m aware those are not the only problems...

I’m honestly unsure whether scum Hwks need to be adjusted if other ships in the faction are addressed, and several of the problematic Hwk builds include Hyperspace ships I would expect to change. But I wouldn’t expect any changes on, eg, the G-1A.

Torps are Hyperspace, so I expect that they’ll definitely go up. Boba is Hyperspace, and I expect that Firespray titles and gunners will be adjusted.

Tl:dr - the devs don’t care about extended, and that’s probably the correct choice given their limited resources. We’ll be lucky if Hyperspace is balanced, don’t even dream that Extended will be.

Clarity edit: you can have your own opinions on what’s mispriced, but it seems naive to expect that all, or even most, of the mispriced cards will be adjusted. We still have a PoS app, and relatively little tournament data to draw conclusions / inferences from. You can have a strong opinion that something needs to be fixed in addition to my (non-exclusive) list, but you should ask yourself how much you really expect to occur... the devs don’t have any more information than we do, but they’re still trying to hit a bullet from a gun that hasn’t fired yet. Expect them to be cautious as they typically have been, and don’t cheer too much if they’re aggressive... it probably means that they’ve mispriced even more cards than before!

My only prediction is that the whole thing will be a total $h1tshow. 😐

It's January in Australia, where's the new points? 👀

For those who say that generic t65 at i2 shoulh cost 40 instead of 41 to fit 5 i ask: have you ever try to play AGAINST a 4 x wing LIST?

The answer is probably: no

we made it through the first week of January without new points 😭

On 12/28/2018 at 8:14 PM, Kaptin Krunch said:

the problem with this is that all generics are overcosted, by varying amounts.

With 40 point T-65's at i2, you are looking at stuff like 20 point TIE Fighters and 30 point TIE Strikers as well.

While 40 points for the T-65 is probably fair, I doubt FFG will actually price generics correctly as it will require far more numbers to be adjusted. I expect they will take the lazy way out and hit the massive swathe of i5/6 pilots we see dominating the meta with some adjustments.

Also, expect to see proton torps at 12+. Proton Torps are the most powerful upgrade in the game right now, and are the driving factor behind the current i5 bid war.

Couldn't you just as easily say that the unique pilots are undercosted? It's just a point of view thing. Decreasing the generics is much more likely to create unintended consequences than an across-the-board increase for all high initiative pilots. Not sure FFG would be willing to go that route but making the aces actually pay for their initiative is going to be required before generics see widespread use.

Who  will get the correct date?

I hope January the 9th

Vader  Cre  w  -1 (why do people want him cost more?!)

Proton Torps + 1 (obviously but I think the chassis will also cost more)

Juke + 1 (obviously)

Jakku Gunrunner +2 (obviously)

Boba Fet  +6 (because he can reroll more than one. Its to good n 2.0)

Han Solo Gunner  +6 (He is to cheap. Especially im comparison to others.)

2 hours ago, Dalli said:

Vader  Cre  w  -1 (why do people want him cost more?!)

Because it's the kind of no-brainer stupid auto-damage we thought would die with 1st edition.

Most force users pay about 10pts for the force alone. So for about 4pts you get auto-damage. Also, e.g. Maul is 13pts.

8 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Because it's the kind of no-brainer stupid auto-damage we thought would die with 1st edition.

Most force users pay about 10pts for the force alone. So for about 4pts you get auto-damage. Also, e.g. Maul is 13pts.

The worst one is Ezra gunner at 18. I love 2.0 but that was a brainfart. I can picture the designer thinking "It's as good as Veteran T Gunner and a force user, 8 + 10 = 18 done! All too easy!" Except you have to spend your 1 force to get the VTG effect, so at best it's either VTG or a force crew on any given round. I'd say 13 for Ezra, given the if-stressed 1-die reroll is ... not nothing.

could Luke Gunner come down and bit seeing as none is playing it?

6 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

could Luke Gunner come down and bit seeing as none is playing it?

there's like 3 force upgrades that are way too cheap and pretty much all the rest of them could come down 5 points as a starting point

5 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

could Luke Gunner come down and bit seeing as none is playing it?

Lets see, Force token seems to cost 10pts as standard. Luke gunner is a reactive rotate action (effectively a free action since he provides the charge necessary to turn the arc) that triggers at the start of the Engagement Phase. While many consider him a crutch (good flying can usually fill the same role), he does open up a **** of allot of action economy and mind games for turret ships, and being able to do so in a reactive nature regardless of init with a likely lock or other mod or a full on reposition... I think he's about where he should be.