17 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

Wow this thread is a ride.

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:54 PM, Koing907 said:

It's why I got out of 40k.

Same with me. And I had SEVEN 40K armies, in various states of completion. And one by one, they all became unplayable due to power creep and edition change.

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 6:53 PM, JJ48 said:

But 100% of 1.0 ships are legal in 2.0. Just not in Hyperspace. So, if you are, as you say, simply claiming that 1.0 ships are legal, then there is no disagreement whatsoever. If you think there is disagreement, then logically, you mean more than what you wrote.

I'm sorry that you can't tell the difference between logic and obfuscation.

By NOT qualifying "conversion", FFG created the impression that all 1.0 ships would be legal in 2.0 WITHOUT qualification. The fact that the X-Wing community is split on this issue is clear evidence of that impression. FFG and its apologists can prattle on about how those non-legal Hyperspace ships are "still playable". It doesn't change the fact that FFG created an impression that they are now backtracking on. Bad for the customer. Bad for the game.

I'm sorry that you can't tell when a false impression has been created.

2 minutes ago, Firebird TMK said:

By NOT qualifying "conversion", FFG created the impression that all 1.0 ships would be legal in 2.0 WITHOUT qualification. The fact that the X-Wing community is split on this issue is clear evidence of that impression. FFG and its apologists can prattle on about how those non-legal Hyperspace ships are "still playable". It doesn't change the fact that FFG created an impression that they are now backtracking on. Bad for the customer. Bad for the game.

I'm sorry that you can't tell when a false impression has been created.

No one's disagreeing that a false impression was created. The question is who created it. You claim that because some players were misled, FFG is responsible for creating that impression. I would argue that the fact that some players weren't misled is decent evidence that it was in the misled players' own heads that the impression was created.

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 12:45 PM, GreenDragoon said:

"The point costs or upgrade slots available to certain ships could be easily adjusted for the course of a single event, a series of tournaments, or a season of the game."

Adjustment of point costs or upgrade slots for certain ships DOES NOT convey the intention to ban 80% of the available ships in "a single event, a series of tournaments, or a season of the game." It conveys the intention to adjust CERTAIN ships, while NOT adjusting all other ships, for those various events.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

If Hyperspace caught you by surprise then you're an idiot. Think of it as evolution just trying to whittle you out.

40 minutes ago, Firebird TMK said:

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Of course you would specifically select one thing and ignore the rest.

Limited format was known before the game was released. We didn't know how much, but the fact that Davy also talked about how overwhelming all the ships are to a new player, and how re-releasing the ships will make it easy again to get into the game did tell us that rereleased ships only is a very good guess.

Did I already mention that Hyperfail mode sucks? 🙃

Just saying...

And now let's all get back to Extended where we can play all the hundreds of ships we have collected within the last few years. Thank you!

7 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

The fact that the X-Wing community is split on this issue is clear evidence of that impression.

K but a 90-10% split (not in your favor) doesn’t really count as a split, no matter how vocal you are about it.

7 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

Same with me. And I had SEVEN 40K armies, in various states of completion. And one by one, they all became unplayable due to power creep and edition change.

The first reason you got out of 40k is and will continue to be in X-wing. On the other hand, edition change has not made any ships unplayable and there's even a tournament format that allows them. In addition, your ships that aren't available in hyperspace currently will be again at some point and probably for a minimal cost investment (if that's not the case then FFG will definitely have gone back on their word to 1st edition players).

15 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

K but a 90-10% split (not in your favor) doesn’t really count as a split, no matter how vocal you are about it.

It's totally split, just right down a sliver on the extreme edge....

Personally, I haven't touched an extended list in months now (since my first outing with 2nd ed). I still play in extended tourneys but I'm fine running hyperspace lists.

7 hours ago, SOTL said:

If Hyperspace caught you by surprise then you're an idiot. Think of it as evolution just trying to whittle you out.

Thus spake Charles Darwin.

It's posts like this, and the attitude behind it, that will earn X-Wing a future Darwin Award.

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Of course you would specifically select one thing and ignore the rest.

Limited format was known before the game was released. We didn't know how much, but the fact that Davy also talked about how overwhelming all the ships are to a new player, and how re-releasing the ships will make it easy again to get into the game did tell us that rereleased ships only is a very good guess.

It only takes one anomaly to disprove a theory.

And all the talk about how Hyperspace is needed because DA NOOBZ! is rubbish, and contradicts everything FFG sold the community about how 2.0 was going to be so much better, so much more balanced, blah blah blah. If that were really the case, then 2.0 new and re-releases would be "competitive" right out of the box. DA NOOBZ! wouldn't need those converted 1.0 ships that they just couldn't get because whatever, but could play successfully against them only with 2.0 releases. So with Hyperspace, FFG has admitted that their 2.0 releases are not good enough to play against converted 1.0 ships, and thus that 2.0 Epically [sic] failed to deliver what was promised.

Hyperspace is not for 'da noobs' Hyperspace is for the future of x-wing by ensuring sales of future expansions to people who would otherwise just sit on their. I version kit purchase.

Yes, you got scalped. Now are you going to get over it or are you going to sulk about it and quit?

4 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Hyperspace is not for 'da noobs' Hyperspace is for the future of x-wing by ensuring sales of future expansions to people who would otherwise just sit on their. I version kit purchase.

Yes, you got scalped. Now are you going to get over it or are you going to sulk about it and quit?

I don't get this argument either tbh. I'm just as likely to buy releases for Extended play as for Hyperspace.

Indeed, I DID buy a MGT with the intention of playing it in Extended, and I have.

The idea that people won't play new stuff unless you limit their options to only the new stuff (not that Hyperspace actually does that, given that it includes the Rebel Falcon) is just... weird. Like... the entire history of x-wing suggests that people will buy new releases regardless.

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Of course you would specifically select one thing and ignore the rest.

Limited format was known before the game was released. We didn't know how much, but the fact that Davy also talked about how overwhelming all the ships are to a new player, and how re-releasing the ships will make it easy again to get into the game did tell us that rereleased ships only is a very good guess.

Additionally, 2nd edition only was there since FFG released that thing they call an app, so who didn't know about the possibility of a limited format really wasn't paying attention.

However, the fact that FFG never touched anything but Extended in regard to tournaments for months after release doesn't make it unreasonable IMO for somebody to assume they consider Extended the main format. If somebody bought into 2nd edition under this assumption, it's quite understandable for me that they find the new direction somewhat disheartening.

How much of this is FFG deliberately trying to mislead some customers through (lack of) information (knowing Hyperspace would be the main focus from a point onward would have likely affected conversion kit sales in a negative way) and how much is just how things worked out is debatable.

Personally I feel it's the latter. The fact that at release there was a thing in the app called '2nd edition' which was never used and later replaced NY Hyperspace makes me think they really didn't have this format ironed out at release.

8 hours ago, SOTL said:

If Hyperspace caught you by surprise then you're an idiot. Think of it as evolution just trying to whittle you out.

It caught me a bit by surprise. Why do a 2.0 if hyperspace is going to be the future of OP? Couldn't hyperspace work well with 1.0 too, by just not making any of the broken combinations tournament legal?

42 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Like... the entire history of x-wing suggests that people will buy new releases regardless.

Actually, I think what the history of X-wing has taught us in this regard is that people buy new releases if they are good, thus sales through power creep. While we don't get actual sales figures, good ships (like the K-wing for example) were out of stock much more often/faster than bad ships.

8 hours ago, SOTL said:

Think of it as evolution just trying to whittle you out.

The word you're actually looking for is "winnow." Happy to help. Good thing evolution hasn't eliminated me yet.

Precisely. History teaches us a lot of stocks sits on shelves unless they make us buy it (remember when K-Wings suddenly got good?)

Bit it's not just about players buying new ships this time, it's about launching & establishing 4 new factions, giving them a fair chance, and setting off in a new design direction that has a pretty clean break from what went before.

And Hyperspace isn't *THE* future of x-wing, but multiple important competitive formats is.

Just now, Jeff Wilder said:

The word you're actually looking for is "winnow." Happy to help. Good thing evolution hasn't eliminated me yet.

Cheers, I've been playing it back in my head trying to persuade myself I had it right.

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

How much of this is FFG deliberately trying to mislead some customers through (lack of) information (knowing Hyperspace would be the main focus from a point onward would have likely affected conversion kit sales in a negative way) and how much is just how things worked out is debatable.

Well, as a dude who bought into Epic only to have that whole aspect of the game shut down, while fully expecting that (at least} each faction would be evenly matched in 1.0, I feel pretty misled. S&V never got a second ship for an entire year, which is of course because they were secretly working on 2.0 and no longer cared about working on 1.0. If FFG did care, they could have finished the rotation of Epic ships in those final months.

And just to tinfoil hat some more, I'm would not be surprised if FFG deliberately make 1.0 a **** show at the end so that

A. They could try out some over-the-top ideas to see just how broken they were ("Harpoon Missiles. Wow, those sure were a disaster, eh?"}

and

B. Players would be screaming for a new Edition and be willing to shuck hundreds of bucks for the "fix."

And I still feel misled, since Epic is still in stasis under the "assumption" something is coming. FFG could just as easily break that promise and fail to support Epic, or pull something like this where as a player my reaction is "That's not Epic! I waited 3 years for this?"

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

Hyperspace is not for 'da noobs' Hyperspace is for the future of x-wing by ensuring sales of future expansions to people who would otherwise just sit on their. I version kit purchase.

Yes, you got scalped. Now are you going to get over it or are you going to sulk about it and quit?

I don't agree with this. In 1.0, the same ships they're reprinting now were continuously produced for newer players or those that wanted more copies. You just don't produce as much for reprint runs as initial print runs. All they have to do is reprint some ships at a smaller print rate than new wave printings, just like they did before. It's pretty dramatic to say it's essential to the future of the game.

Also, not that you care, but I agree with what others have been telling you; you're acting like a child. If you could tone back the attitude, that would be great. Maybe you're fine with being "scalped" but I don't think it's unnatural for people to be upset with FFGs poor handling of the changes and/or dishonesty with conversion kits to boost sales.

I know you are, I know you are. But what am I?

You know, I agree with at least half of what you say but you make it difficult to side with you because of your attitude. I also think multiple competitive formats and something akin to rotation is essential. FFG, as usual, dropped the ball on how they handled the changes so people are understandably upset. It doesn't help to hear someone constantly yapping about how people were stupid to get duped by FFGs mediocrity again.

They could have easily alternated Hyperspace and Extended for premier events and over 50% of the complaints I've seen would probably never have existed at all.

7 minutes ago, AceWing said:

You know, I agree with at least half of what you say but you make it difficult to side with you because of your attitude.

It is incredibly foolish to judge a message based on the messenger. Judge the content, and if it's deemed right it is deemed right.