7 minutes ago, AceWing said:

FFG, as usual, dropped the ball on how they handled the changes so people are understandably upset.

Did they?

Or where they worried that too many changes all at once who alienate players into quitting?

So, a little "misunderstanding" and vague statements were just what they wanted until enough CKs were sold and people were 100% on board, at least financially speaking.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

It is incredibly foolish to judge a message based on the messenger. Judge the content, and if it's deemed right it is deemed right.

I didn't say I disagree with his arguments because of his tone. I said his tone detracts from his message. I even pointed out that I agree with over half of what he says. I pointed out one of his arguments I don't agree with. I think it's incredibly foolish to call someone a fool and not even adequately read what they write.

16 minutes ago, AceWing said:

You know, I agree with at least half of what you say but you make it difficult to side with you because of your attitude. I also think multiple competitive formats and something akin to rotation is essential. FFG, as usual, dropped the ball on how they handled the changes so people are understandably upset. It doesn't help to hear someone constantly yapping about how people were stupid to get duped by FFGs mediocrity again.

They could have easily alternated Hyperspace and Extended for premier events and over 50% of the complaints I've seen would probably never have existed at all.

Explain alternating because any reasonable way I try to think of what you mean would be terribad and worse than this for people griping and moaning.

Some people need to pull on their big boy pants, and if they're not going to do that they should shut up about having cold legs in their little booty shorts.

4 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Did they?

Or where they worried that too many changes all at once who alienate players into quitting?

So, a little "misunderstanding" and vague statements were just what they wanted until enough CKs were sold and people were 100% on board, at least financially speaking.

Yeah, I think they just handled it extremely poorly. Technically, there are two competitive formats but for the near future, they're all one format. After all their missteps, I guess we're supposed to hope they also make sure they give each format adequate representation (not holding my breath).

With the smallest amount of thought, they could have just alternated the formats and made the most people happy. Instead, they famously underpay their staff so they either have over-worked or under-skilled employees. Lots of mistakes happen in that environment, understandably.

Just now, SOTL said:

Explain alternating because any reasonable way I try to think of what you mean would be terribad and worse than this for people griping and moaning.

Some people need to pull on their big boy pants, and if they're not going to do that they should shut up about having cold legs in their little booty shorts.

They could just have seasons where they highlight one format over the other. Why did they have to make all premier events in the near future Hyperspace? Different people like this game for different reasons. You will naturally alienate people by excluding whole groups that prefer Extended. Magic alternates formats just fine.

... and again with the condescension.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

It is incredibly foolish to judge a message based on the messenger. Judge the content, and if it's deemed right it is deemed right.

In general, I fully agree with you (and I consider myself well equipped to do just what you're saying here). And I don't see any reason to think the poster to whom you're responding needs to be told what you're telling him.

But -- and this is a serious question -- in the last three months, what has SOTL actually contributed to any discussion? I am incredibly loathe to add people to my Ignore List (which currently has -- checking ... -- one poster on it, because I have a thick skin and can take care of myself. I'm not perturbed at all by his demeanor. But his demeanor in conjunction with absolutely zero content? At this point I think I'm being overly optimistic that he'll begin contributing meaningfully again. He seems to have had a Dennis Miller-esque break with relevance.

26 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Did they?

Or where they worried that too many changes all at once who alienate players into quitting?

So, a little "misunderstanding" and vague statements were just what they wanted until enough CKs were sold and people were 100% on board, at least financially speaking.

IMO it's a case of not attributing to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

FFG handled communication so far pretty badly, although in a way that benefitted them. Now however, even though the cat is out of the bag, they keep handling it badly in a way where I for one can't see any benefit for them: they announced Hyperspace but cuntinue to provide 0 information about what they plan to do with it in the future (will it be an evet expanding format with new releases, will it be a rotation, how often, how many ships etc.).

Efit: Add to that the so far completely false information that you will no longer have to buy cross faction for cards? They said it, it's false so far and again I see no benefit for FFG in that.

6 minutes ago, AceWing said:

They could just have seasons where they highlight one format over the other. Why did they have to make all premier events in the near future Hyperspace? Different people like this game for different reasons. You will naturally alienate people by excluding whole groups that prefer Extended. Magic alternates formats just fine.

... and again with the condescension.

Speaking as someone who doesn't follow organized play, could someone please explain how the events are structured and why everyone's so worked up about it? For instance, what are "premier events"?

Looking at the Organized Play page, I see System Open tournaments that are Extended, run in parallel with Hyperspace Qualifiers that are Hyperspace. There are Hyperspace Trials and Cups that run only a couple times a year, and then there's the World Championship, which I can't find any information about its format. So just from what I can see, it looks like both formats will have representation. Could someone please help clarify?

24 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

what has SOTL actually contributed to any discussion?

Considering you said it's a serious question: do you want me to provide examples?

He has made plenty good points and contributions over the past few weeks. Just going by memory I would probably be hard pressed finding another user whose posts I liked more often. And yes, even after removing all the cases of blatantly playing teams.

I'm not saying it isn't reduced compared to other periods of time. But compared to many, many, oh so many other users, especially found in this thread, he still added much more insight.

28 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

In general, I fully agree with you (and I consider myself well equipped to do just what you're saying here). And I don't see any reason to think the poster to whom you're responding needs to be told what you're telling him.

But -- and this is a serious question -- in the last three months, what has SOTL actually contributed to any discussion? I am incredibly loathe to add people to my Ignore List (which currently has -- checking ... -- one poster on it, because I have a thick skin and can take care of myself. I'm not perturbed at all by his demeanor. But his demeanor in conjunction with absolutely zero content? At this point I think I'm being overly optimistic that he'll begin contributing meaningfully again. He seems to have had a Dennis Miller-esque break with relevance.

Go ahead and hit ignore, boss. I'm taking great pains to avoid being relevant ever again.

27 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

IMO it's a case of not attributing to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

FFG handled communication so far pretty badly, although in a way that benefitted them. Now however, even though the cat is out of the bag, they keep handling it badly in a way where I for one can't see any benefit for them: they announced Hyperspace but cuntinue to provide 0 information about what they plan to do with it in the future (will it be an evet expanding format with new releases, will it be a rotation, how often, how many ships etc.).

Efit: Add to that the so far completely false information that you will no longer have to buy cross faction for cards? They said it, it's false so far and again I see no benefit for FFG in that.

A company lied to further its profits? OMG!

2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Considering you said it's a serious question: do you want me to provide examples?

That'd be great.

Quote

I would probably be hard pressed finding another user whose posts I liked more often. And yes, even after removing all the cases of blatantly playing teams.

Hate to say it, but I genuinely think you're vastly underestimating the latter motive. I've especially noticed it in threads like this one, where I legitimately don't have an opinion yet. (And may never really care one way or the other.)

9 minutes ago, SOTL said:

A company lied to further its profits? OMG!

My point is exactly the opposite. For several reasons I doubt it was a deliberate ruse. My opinion is that FFG is just that incompetent at communicating coherently.

5 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

That'd be great.

Going back to end of December, so 3 weeks instead of 3 months. Going back to those had me wondering what you consider to be contributing. I think these examples did. Of course it's always just one post from a series of comments. I also didn't include anything from this thread here, even though some points (a bit further back maybe...) were genuinely good. I especially agree with him that Hyperspace puts more focus on how to play a list, as opposed to what the list is as it was so dominant in 1.0 and to a lesser extent still is in extended.

10 examples:

List in squadbuilding featuring a great paint job
On Lulo, and how Tallie's ability is being cheap
Paint job, other list
General stuff on A-wings
Usage of Heroic on Lulo
Well percieved shutting of some whining against heroic
Insight on how QD is being played vs how she should be seen
On crackshots on A-wings
Some more recent on QD
His discussion with Biophysical on meta differences between hyperspace and extended

5 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Hate to say it, but I genuinely think you're vastly underestimating the latter motive. I've especially noticed it in threads like this one, where I legitimately don't have an opinion yet. (And may never really care one way or the other.)

I know, and it is horrible. I hate it. But these discussions are - unfortunately - not for those involved and instead for the undecided bystanders. And similarly to people judging message based on messenger, they also tend to see something as more relevant and accepted if there are some "likes". If they are only on one side then the forming opinions are also affected by that. So I give in and do it myself in threads like the one here.

Thanks, @GreenDragoon. I really appreciate that effort. I agree that a few -- but only a few -- of those are good and meaningful contributions that I just didn't see (even if I read those threads, I quite possibly just skipped over those posts due to the associated name, which is a risk one assumes (on both sides)). As for the rest ... we seem to have different standards. (Which is fine.)

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

IMO it's a case of not attributing to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

FFG handled communication so far pretty badly, although in a way that benefitted them. Now however, even though the cat is out of the bag, they keep handling it badly in a way where I for one can't see any benefit for them: they announced Hyperspace but cuntinue to provide 0 information about what they plan to do with it in the future (will it be an evet expanding format with new releases, will it be a rotation, how often, how many ships etc.).

That was my point. They did not lie, but they also did not clarify the truth because that might have slowed 2.0 sales.

If I neglect to tell you the bridge is out when I know it is, am I no longer culpable when you fall?

Holy forking shirtballs! I'm not sure I can resist me some ethics and morality discussion!

9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

As for the rest ... we seem to have different standards. (Which is fine.)

Haha yeah let's say I was under external time pressure. I just went through the 10 last pages. I must have missed the upsilons stuff which was interesting. The last few pages are mainly this thread though.

Also, as mentioned, depends on your comparison.

2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Holy forking shirtballs! I'm not sure I can resist me some ethics and morality discussion!

can we finally go to the trolley problem? I heard that shuts down threads pretty quickly

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

can we finally go to the trolley problem? I heard that shuts down threads pretty quickly

No, just ...

... derails them.

Occasionally I can't help myself and produce content, but I'm trying to cut down on those little lapses.

51 minutes ago, SOTL said:

I'm taking great pains to avoid being relevant ever again.

To what end?

Good grief, even at my whiniest I would like to think I had a point to make.

I mean, if you want to get banned from the boards, I'll put in a good word for you if you like.

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

I mean, if you want to get banned from the boards, I'll put in a good word for you if you like.

I'm pretty sure he already has been, once. Wasn't he a full Stay On The Leader at one point?

This is pure speculation, based on my own spotty records with the -- ahem -- "inconsistent" moderation on these boards (were the quotes enough to make it clear I'm being very, very nice in my phrasing?), but I would not be surprised that his rapid deterioration has something to do with that. Like me, he has a fairly thick skin, and is both impatient and not-shy about responding in-kind to attacks (especially stupid attacks). My guess is that he got fed up with trying to make his points without being very clear he was talking to idiots. (Which tends to get warnings from mods.)

(And, to be fair, he often was speaking to idiots, even if they were sometimes right, purely by luck. And it is frustrating. My own strategy has been to simply only engage with people who aren't idiots. I'm sticking to it pretty well. I haven't been banned yet (obviously), but I do have -- checking ... -- five warnings in four and a half years.)

40 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Haha. I think we got to the bottom of why you were surprised by Hyperspace.

Its kinda cute, though. Adorable.

*ruffles your hair and sends you off to play*

Citation needed.

I was never surprised by Hyperspace. ****, I expected 2nd edition only to be the main competitive format since 2.0 was released (the fact that it wasn't for so much time was a surprise for me though).

My position toward Hyperspace is different: I expected it, I understand why it's necessary for the game and I think it's a good idea. I just don't think FFG is able to execute it properly, especially while also supporting Extended (or at least pretending to).

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

Speaking as someone who doesn't follow organized play, could someone please explain how the events are structured and why everyone's so worked up about it? For instance, what are "premier events"?

Looking at the Organized Play page, I see System Open tournaments that are Extended, run in parallel with Hyperspace Qualifiers that are Hyperspace. There are Hyperspace Trials and Cups that run only a couple times a year, and then there's the World Championship, which I can't find any information about its format. So just from what I can see, it looks like both formats will have representation. Could someone please help clarify?

Premier events are the highest level of competition: what used to be Regionals and upwards (Nationals, Continentals, System Opens, and World). Beneath that you get relaxed tier (seasonal kits and casual events) and Store Champs (now Wave Champs).

Wave Champs can be Hyperspace format, but the official guidance says to run them as Extended by default unless a store wants to switch them - the kit also has prizes for a Themed event and a Quickbuild event; System Open main event is Extended, and so are the Seasonal kits (although these can be run in any format a store or TO feels like doing).

The Hyperspace Qualifier (day 2 at System Opens, if you don't make the top cut), Hyperspace Trials (formerly known as Regionals), Hyperspace Cups (Nationals) and World Champs are all Hyperspace (although the World Champs hasn't been officially declared yet, the implications are that it will be. It will be preceded by the Coruscant Invitational which will be an undisclosed and unique format.)

Hope that helps.

A lot of the whinging, judging from this and other threads, comes from people whose local store(s) are only doing Hyperspace format and not doing any Extended. Competitive players who really want to do well at the Hyperspace events are happy about this. Casual players like myself who just want to go 'pew pew' with our friends don't care either way, and prefer a mix so we can use different ships each time.