Boy the TIEs are as thick as flies. But yes, lets go ahead and talk about TIE Swarms. Now for the record a true swarm is a list that composes of 7 ships or more (8 being the max in standard). So as for now we have 3 factions that can build a swarm list and it is out of ties. Galactic Empire, 1st Order and now the Scum has their own TIE Swarm. Lets take a look at all three.

Galactic Empire

The Original Swarm, this list was the undisputed ruler with their leader Howlrunner, who was able to make their rather modest 2 firepower attack deadly accurate. Granted Howlrunner was so expensive you could only run 7 TIEs but it was enough to take worlds. After swarms were getting eaten up there was a change in the variant into a 8 ship of 4 humble academy pilots and 4 Black Squadron Pilots with the EPT Crack Shot thus dubbed the Crack Swarm. The upgrade gave the ability to cut through high damage preventing defense caused by green dice and evade tokens often stripping away a token just by threat of damage if they did not making the target softer for getting pelted by the Academy pilots. Now crack shot has been nerfed requiring that elusive bullseye arc, Howlrunner swarm seems to be the type of swarm to go with. Add in more leader abilities like coordinate the old howlrunner swarm is more flexible than its 1st edition incarnation.

1stOrder

In 1st edition you couldn't make a true swarm list as the TIE/FO was 15 points leaving room for only 6 in a 100 point squadron. Now with the faction split and TIE/FO starting at 28 you can have 7 in a list. However they don't really have any pivotal pilots like Howlrunner. Having an extra shield, an improved dial, and the target lock action (in addition to the 1stOrder tech slot) it has been question about its value in comparision with the cheaper TIE/lns. There are some pilots like Null which is a PS7 until it gets damaged then drops to the opoosite end as a PS0. Giving it Swarm Tactics could be a boost but it comes with 2 problems, One is that after 2 hits the upgrade becomes useless, and 2 is that given the TIE/FO's increased cost you will drop down to a 6 ship list. 4 points is not a lot to play around with.

Scum & Villainy

The Big ships faction of 1st edition becomes the Swarm Faction of 2nd edition. At wave 3 they will have access to 2 ships starting between 23-28 points not to forget their one additional ship that comes in a larger expansion. However as that ship has all 4 pilots unique, and the Z-95 won't be out until next wave (and that the topic of this thread is TIE Swarm) the Mining Guild TIE is S&V's own Swarm style fighter. Like the 1st Order they have a higher starting cost per ship at a 25 points (2 more than the TIE/ln) and like the 1stOrder they don't have any ship that could act as howlrunner. However they can field up to 8 TIEs and these ties come with a ship ability that allows them to move through asteroids. Now only if you can bring an asteroid swarm with them. Still the Surveyor with Trick Shot brings it to 26 points per ship giving you a tricky little ship that can trhow 3 red dice from inside an asteroid field smack dab in the center.

So what do you think about TIE Swarms. What do you think their place in the meta would be and what are the best Swarm Strategies and counter swarm strategies? Do you have any ideas for lists that contain at the very least 6 ships (any 5 ship list will be thrown in a trash compactor )?

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

So what do you think about TIE Swarms. What do you think their place in the meta would be and what are the best Swarm Strategies and counter swarm strategies? Do you have any ideas for lists that contain at the very least 6 ships (any 5 ship list will be thrown in a trash compactor )?

[Goes off to wave a " heavy swarms 4 life" banner in the corner, sulks a bit, then comes over to actually engage on the correct topic]

I think Swarms should be and (hopefully) always will be a viable element in the game. A massive wave of TIE fighters (or vulture droids) has always been an iconic element of Star Wars films, and it should work on the tabletop.

At the same time, this is a skirmish game, so I think the current intent of 8-ships-max is sensible - more than that makes a game too long and starts to drain the fun out of it. I've played enough games of Ork-vs-Tyranid 40k that got through maybe half the turn limit not to want to replicate that in X-wing.

The true swarm is an extreme. Masses of attacks and total attack dice but delivered in tiny drip-drops - making them extremely ineffectual against reliable defence. Neutering Reinforce so that it can reduce any damage incoming but can't stop it makes a huge difference, as does preventing big ships boosting and rolling at high initiative with the same ease as 1.0.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Galactic Empire

The Original Swarm, this list was the undisputed ruler with their leader Howlrunner, who was able to make their rather modest 2 firepower attack deadly accurate. Granted Howlrunner was so expensive you could only run 7 TIEs but it was enough to take worlds. After swarms were getting eaten up there was a change in the variant into a 8 ship of 4 humble academy pilots and 4 Black Squadron Pilots with the EPT Crack Shot thus dubbed the Crack Swarm. The upgrade gave the ability to cut through high damage preventing defense caused by green dice and evade tokens often stripping away a token just by threat of damage if they did not making the target softer for getting pelted by the Academy pilots. Now crack shot has been nerfed requiring that elusive bullseye arc, Howlrunner swarm seems to be the type of swarm to go with. Add in more leader abilities like coordinate the old howlrunner swarm is more flexible than its 1st edition incarnation.

The biggest change to a Howlrunner Swarm is obviously Iden Versio - essentially making Howlrunner much harder to kill before the academy pilots get to shoot.

I do wonder about a Ruthless swarm. You'll burn through allies very fast, but being able to fly outside an easily bombed and trapped block adds flexibility, I3>I1 and it's very potent damage increase. 6 Ruthless Black Aces and Ruthless Mauler Mithel is a nice looking squad.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

1stOrder

In 1st edition you couldn't make a true swarm list as the TIE/FO was 15 points leaving room for only 6 in a 100 point squadron. Now with the faction split and TIE/FO starting at 28 you can have 7 in a list. However they don't really have any pivotal pilots like Howlrunner. Having an extra shield, an improved dial, and the target lock action (in addition to the 1stOrder tech slot) it has been question about its value in comparision with the cheaper TIE/lns. There are some pilots like Null which is a PS7 until it gets damaged then drops to the opoosite end as a PS0. Giving it Swarm Tactics could be a boost but it comes with 2 problems, One is that after 2 hits the upgrade becomes useless, and 2 is that given the TIE/FO's increased cost you will drop down to a 6 ship list. 4 points is not a lot to play around with.

It's not. You essentially get a choice of adding either Epsilon Leader or Epsilon Ace with no upgrades. Of the two, I'd take "Null" - "Muse" used to be awesome but now she only affects one ship, she's better in an all-stars force alongside someone like "Scorch" than in a swarm of basic fighters. You could take Lieutentant Rivas or TN-3465 instead, I guess.

If you drop to 6 ships, you can field a zeta squad - 4 basic Zetas, and "Longshot" and "Scorch" both with advanced optics. Soothing the inner fluff nerd aside, I'd rather take the Epsilons.

But yes, this is mostly about the superiority of the TIE/fo chassis. You get a heck of a lot of ship for a small price increase.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

Scum & Villainy

The Big ships faction of 1st edition becomes the Swarm Faction of 2nd edition. At wave 3 they will have access to 2 ships starting between 23-28 points not to forget their one additional ship that comes in a larger expansion. However as that ship has all 4 pilots unique, and the Z-95 won't be out until next wave (and that the topic of this thread is TIE Swarm) the Mining Guild TIE is S&V's own Swarm style fighter. Like the 1st Order they have a higher starting cost per ship at a 25 points (2 more than the TIE/ln) and like the 1stOrder they don't have any ship that could act as howlrunner. However they can field up to 8 TIEs and these ties come with a ship ability that allows them to move through asteroids. Now only if you can bring an asteroid swarm with them. Still the Surveyor with Trick Shot brings it to 26 points per ship giving you a tricky little ship that can trhow 3 red dice from inside an asteroid field smack dab in the center.

Don't forget the Jakku Gunrunner - tractor tokens are great value for blocking-heavy swarms, and for 2-dice attacks, especially paired with mining TIEs who can swarm around rocks with little penalty.

6 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Boy the TIEs are as thick as flies. But yes, lets go ahead and talk about TIE Swarms. Now for the record a true swarm is a list that composes of 7 ships or more (8 being the max in standard). So as for now we have 3 factions that can build a swarm list and it is out of ties. Galactic Empire, 1st Order and now the Scum has their own TIE Swarm. Lets take a look at all three.

Galactic Empire

The Original Swarm, this list was the undisputed ruler with their leader Howlrunner, who was able to make their rather modest 2 firepower attack deadly accurate. Granted Howlrunner was so expensive you could only run 7 TIEs but it was enough to take worlds. After swarms were getting eaten up there was a change in the variant into a 8 ship of 4 humble academy pilots and 4 Black Squadron Pilots with the EPT Crack Shot thus dubbed the Crack Swarm. The upgrade gave the ability to cut through high damage preventing defense caused by green dice and evade tokens often stripping away a token just by threat of damage if they did not making the target softer for getting pelted by the Academy pilots. Now crack shot has been nerfed requiring that elusive bullseye arc, Howlrunner swarm seems to be the type of swarm to go with. Add in more leader abilities like coordinate the old howlrunner swarm is more flexible than its 1st edition incarnation.

1stOrder

In 1st edition you couldn't make a true swarm list as the TIE/FO was 15 points leaving room for only 6 in a 100 point squadron. Now with the faction split and TIE/FO starting at 28 you can have 7 in a list. However they don't really have any pivotal pilots like Howlrunner. Having an extra shield, an improved dial, and the target lock action (in addition to the 1stOrder tech slot) it has been question about its value in comparision with the cheaper TIE/lns. There are some pilots like Null which is a PS7 until it gets damaged then drops to the opoosite end as a PS0. Giving it Swarm Tactics could be a boost but it comes with 2 problems, One is that after 2 hits the upgrade becomes useless, and 2 is that given the TIE/FO's increased cost you will drop down to a 6 ship list. 4 points is not a lot to play around with.

Scum & Villainy

The Big ships faction of 1st edition becomes the Swarm Faction of 2nd edition. At wave 3 they will have access to 2 ships starting between 23-28 points not to forget their one additional ship that comes in a larger expansion. However as that ship has all 4 pilots unique, and the Z-95 won't be out until next wave (and that the topic of this thread is TIE Swarm) the Mining Guild TIE is S&V's own Swarm style fighter. Like the 1st Order they have a higher starting cost per ship at a 25 points (2 more than the TIE/ln) and like the 1stOrder they don't have any ship that could act as howlrunner. However they can field up to 8 TIEs and these ties come with a ship ability that allows them to move through asteroids. Now only if you can bring an asteroid swarm with them. Still the Surveyor with Trick Shot brings it to 26 points per ship giving you a tricky little ship that can trhow 3 red dice from inside an asteroid field smack dab in the center.

So what do you think about TIE Swarms. What do you think their place in the meta would be and what are the best Swarm Strategies and counter swarm strategies? Do you have any ideas for lists that contain at the very least 6 ships (any 5 ship list will be thrown in a trash compactor )?

Mining ties start at 24 for the basic pilot.

scum has lots of super cheap ships now

-mining tie

-z-95

-escape craft

-quadjumper

-hwk without title

-scyk

-y-wing(although any useful y wing build will probably break 40pts)

The Empire can rock a 7-TIE swarm with Howl granting rerolls and Iden keeping it from stopping, or a 6-TIE swarm to sprinkle upgrades or unique pilots in. Imperial TIEs with a focus average 1.828 damage, or 2.648 at range 1, but require flying close to Howl.

The FO can fit a 6-/fo swarm with Advanced Optics (although they'd probably actually run 5+1, bringing Longshot or something.) FO TIEs with Optics and a focus average 1.813 damage, or 2.547 at range 1, but they trade the higher ship count or additional upgrades/abilities of the Imperial swarm to be freed from the need for flying together.

Scum Mining Guild TI Es lack an ace that buffs them or a defining upgrade that improves the consistency of their firepower (aside from Drea, who is neither in a TIE nor in Hyperspace). You can squeeze in 7 with Trick Shot, two of which are Seevor and Ahhav. Mining Guild TIEs with a focus average 1.5 damage, or 2.25 with Trick Shot or Range 1 (or 3 with both). Mining TIEs don't need to fly together, they can move over asteroids, and functionally they get the range 1 bonus much more often, at the cost of lower, less consistent damage output.

This post doesn't have a point or purpose other than I think the distinctive faction identity is cool.

You lost me at 'must be 7 ships'.

I wouldn't say I0 coordinate is useless; is it worse than I7? Yes, but it can't be blocked.

Muse can also take Squad Leader to Coordinate at I2 and then remove the stress from themself from the Red Coord at the beginning of Engagement. 36pts coordinator isn't that bad, except when compared to the points-broken S&V Escape Craft.

20 minutes ago, SOTL said:

You lost me at 'must be 7 ships'.

We can stop at 6 but no less

15 hours ago, kris40k said:

Muse can also take Squad Leader to Coordinate at I2 and then remove the stress from themself from the Red Coord at the beginning of Engagement. 36pts coordinator isn't that bad, except when compared to the points-broken S&V Escape Craft.

That's a good thought. Now she only affects one ship I've been looking for an appropriate use for her in a TIE swarm. Giving her Red actions - i.e. squad leader - for some reason, never occurred. Annoyingly she can't fit in a full epsilon squadron swarm so armed, but her, "Null" and 4 Cadets might be rather nice.

Throw in Pattern Analyser, and she can even do it on a Segnor - complete the loop, perform an action (red co-ordinate), check stress and become double-stressed, bin off stress to be (manageably) single-stressed, do green move along with rest of squad next turn.

I'm kinda terrified to fight a 6 ship Omega swarm with Fanatical.

Drop it to 5, and you've got hull upgrades on all of em.

Thats equal to more than 1 extra FO of total HP.

23 hours ago, impspy said:

I wouldn't say I0 coordinate is useless; is it worse than I7? Yes, but it can't be blocked.

It also allows pre-reposition barrel rolls, and pre-blue linked actions (if you have ‘em).

It’s really good, just in a different way (like a really expensive Supernatural for any ship).

On 12/20/2018 at 12:25 AM, Marinealver said:

Now for the record a true swarm is a list that composes of 7 ships or more (8 being the max in standard).

6 of the same ship is commonly referred to as a swarm, and 5 of the same ship in a list is usually referred to as a swarm or mini-swarm. But I get that you were being satirical and invoking the "true scotsman" fallacy, nicely done.

Can't let those other dirty filthy impure non-TIE/ln ships try to claim to be swarm lists *wink*.

6 hours ago, Bucknife said:

I'm kinda terrified to fight a 6 ship Omega swarm with Fanatical.

Drop it to 5, and you've got hull upgrades on all of em.

Thats equal to more than 1 extra FO of total HP.

I like it...

F/o swarm

midnight

null

scorch

longshot

epsilon x2

no upgrades

On 12/20/2018 at 11:41 AM, kris40k said:

Muse can also take Squad Leader to Coordinate at I2 and then remove the stress from themself from the Red Coord at the beginning of Engagement. 36pts coordinator isn't that bad, except when compared to the points-broken S&V Escape Craft.

How about the infinite lols of Pattern Analyzer and Elusive on him? Always get a green reroll to go with your focus! Sloops for dayz!