I know alot of people don't like ion, i believe due to the points it cost to add them, but they can worth it big time i think. first they keep a constant (imps) 2 white 1 black or (rebel) 2 red against a unit. for imps this can be the best as flames loose dice as it attacks the same target. i agree with cost as this weapon due to it can be devistating to anyone one who uses either ground or flying vehicles, you can't role off ion you have to wait till your mini activates either on that turn or next. and if you get hit twice you loose both actions. and with palps pull the string and a double attack it can be devastating in the right order or if that mini goes last and then first again the next round.
so my question is why do people dislike/like them.

The problem extends further than that in my opinion to exhaustible weapons in general. The point costs should've been reversed to make the exhaustible cheaper. As for ion weapons specifically they have their uses, but vehicles aren't prevalent in meta lists as infantry swarms are better. Should the meta see a push to armor ion will make a return, which I'd be happy to see as I don't like it when units are almost outright inferior to other options

21 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

The problem extends further than that in my opinion to exhaustible weapons in general. The point costs should've been reversed to make the exhaustible cheaper. As for ion weapons specifically they have their uses, but vehicles aren't prevalent in meta lists as infantry swarms are better. Should the meta see a push to armor ion will make a return, which I'd be happy to see as I don't like it when units are almost outright inferior to other options

I think Ion's are ok as they are. But, as popemobile100 stated, you simply won't see them in many meta lists because most players are not using vehicles (albeit Bikes and maybe a ATRT here/there) as the way the most objective scenarios go, it's better tactically to use Infantry. Plus, many are vying to get more Activations in per turn.

That said, most of my games are casually competitive and Ion is used more often because vehicles are definitely being used every game. I think once we get new vehicles.. as it will be the new shiny we'll see more on the table and then Ion will have a bigger role to play.

- Cedric

I don't dislike them. But the exhaust/recover mechanic doesn't seem like it works right in Legion, to me. Also, in any game, I genuinely enjoy putting as many of my painted figures on the table as possible. Therefore I tend to favor the cheaper special weapons in all miniatures games. On the other hand, I like variety, and avoid taking all of the same weapon.

I take lots of snowtroopers. My luck goes like this: when I take lots of flametroopers, I am stuck just beyond range 1 the whole game. When I take lots of ion guns, I fail my rally roll and have to choose between reloading the ion guns (and not shooting at all till next turn) or moving AND getting a free white die shot. Maybe even moving into black die grenade range! The choice is too stark, it's out of my hands, I cannot justify reloading the ion guns with my only action.

Hence, I take more flametroopers, cause they are cheaper, and leave me more points for even more figures.

1 minute ago, TauntaunScout said:

I don't dislike them. But the exhaust/recover mechanic doesn't seem like it works right in Legion, to me. Also, in any game, I genuinely enjoy putting as many of my painted figures on the table as possible. Therefore I tend to favor the cheaper special weapons in all miniatures games. On the other hand, I like variety, and avoid taking all of the same weapon.

I take lots of snowtroopers. My luck goes like this: when I take lots of flametroopers, I am stuck just beyond range 1 the whole game. When I take lots of ion guns, I fail my rally roll and have to choose between reloading the ion guns (and not shooting at all till next turn) or moving AND getting a free white die shot. The choice is obvious.

when the imperial officers comes out would it be the same with inspire 1 on them and also moral 2? and with veers or another imp officer this could potentially double to 2 suppression remove a turn?

as far as the exhaust part comes, i kinda like it as is due to how powerful the ion can be, not only does it take a action from a vehicle but it can do more damage, and also the add in impact to the shots. and as far as either shooting or reloading (ready) there is currently only 1 commander who can make your troopers do this for free but i'm sure there will be more later.

I don't think anyone outright dislikes them, the point cost with the action economy makes them a terrible purchase when building a list. Every other alternative weapon is so much more cost effective that it's almost like the ion weapons don't exist. Same with the HH-12 missile weapon. Compared to the DLT, it costs more and is nearly impossible to use effectively, or as effectively as the best weapon upgrade in the game (ie. DLT)

I often include a ion trooper or two in my lists if I don't have enough impact units. At-sts tend to show up and since it's hard to take them out I prefer ion. It also works in rebel mirror.

However vehicle units are not super popular and the point costs + exhaust is a huge price vs the flexible and cheap dlt or z6. I get why ion isn't used by imperials because they got more than enough impact options to take down any rebel armor units.

The problem is they are expensive, need to be reloaded, and aren't that strong anyway.

Pretty much all the exhaustible weapons are garbage because of the above 3 reasons.

Just now, BadMotivator said:

The problem is they are expensive, need to be reloaded, and aren't that strong anyway.

Pretty much all the exhaustible weapons are garbage because of the above 3 reasons.

I asked this same thing when the game had just come out and got the answer that they were future proofing and that there would be more armored vehicles in the future. The atst unfortunately is also so expensive, that it is not really worth its points as well. The ion guns are very useful if you want to shut it down though. I've only seen the airspeeder on the table twice when it was first released and have never seen it since.

25 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I asked this same thing when the game had just come out and got the answer that they were future proofing and that there would be more armored vehicles in the future. The atst unfortunately is also so expensive, that it is not really worth its points as well. The ion guns are very useful if you want to shut it down though. I've only seen the airspeeder on the table twice when it was first released and have never seen it since.

Ion is far more valuable than purely impact. Especially from the perspective of Rebels hitting an AT-ST; two Ion tokens neutralize a unit worth 195-265 points, using as little as 144 points. That’s an efficiency win on its own, not even considering how many units the AT-ST could rout or vaporize over the course of 6 rounds.

4 hours ago, Derrault said:

Ion is far more valuable than purely impact. Especially from the perspective of Rebels hitting an AT-ST; two Ion tokens neutralize a unit worth 195-265 points, using as little as 144 points. That’s an efficiency win on its own, not even considering how many units the AT-ST could rout or vaporize over the course of 6 rounds.

This is the thing. It depends on what you play. As a snowtrooper army, I find ion guns really hard to get right. Not many rebel vehicles worth shooting with it.

3 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

This is the thing. It depends on what you play. As a snowtrooper army, I find ion guns really hard to get right. Not many rebel vehicles worth shooting with it.

Which is certainly a reason you might not value impact either; but unless you refuse to play a mirror match, there’s no particular reason you might not fight AT-STs.

Maybe we will come back to this question if separatists are an army of tanks and droids that are susceptible to ion.

But for the time being they are hot steamy garbage.

So y ou agree, if there are no atst, 50% of the heavy weapon choices are worthless?

I honestly haven't seen an atst since the beginning of summer when everyone realized they were overpriced and underpowered.

My point is that up til now, there is no reason to take ion weapons unless you are handicapping yourself for a reason.

42 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I honestly haven't seen an atst since the beginning of summer when everyone realized they were overpriced and underpowered.

I take them all the time. I hate this mentality though. It's what usually what happens in a points-buy games: someone relentlessly sets themselves to figuring out the best value unit, the data gets spread via the internet in a seconds, and everything else becomes "overpriced". Personally I like using my AT-ST against armies of tons of stripped down infantry units. Small infantry units are reliably destroyed by a single attack from an AT-ST. It is easy to win, when the enemy is dead.

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My point is that up til now, there is no reason to take ion weapons unless you are handicapping yourself for a reason.

Or because you don't like taking all the same heavy weapon? It looks weird, and is boring. People used to say the exact same thing about taking any special weapon besides meltaguns in 40k. It never stopped me from taking one of every special weapon. Grenade launchers look cool, flamers fit a certain aesthetic, and plasma guns remind me of X-Com.

8 hours ago, Derrault said:

Which is certainly a reason you might not value impact either; but unless you refuse to play a mirror match, there’s no particular reason you might not fight AT-STs.

True although, I could always blow them apart using impact grenades? Not sure. None of my friends really wants to play imperials at the moment so it's been a long time since I've gotten to play rebels. For awhile at the beginning it was the reverse, don't know why. One thing about playing an all-snowtrooper army, I have a lot of impact grenade and grappling hook cards that my rebels can use too!

5 hours ago, Ophion said:

Maybe we will come back to this question if separatists are an army of tanks and droids that are susceptible to ion.

I was surprised the Atgar wasn't made susceptible to it. The upcoming droids should be too but who knows if they will.

11 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I was surprised the Atgar wasn't made susceptible to it. The upcoming droids should be too but who knows if they will.

I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to amend the Ion rules to have them effect Emplacement Troopers as well.

The more targets for Ion the more utility they would gain.

35 minutes ago, shmitty said:

I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to amend the Ion rules to have them effect Emplacement Troopers as well.

The more targets for Ion the more utility they would gain.

They should not ionize ewok catapults or 50 caliber machine guns, which would presumably be emplaced.

What really needs to happen is the Exaust weapons need to be recosted appropriately. They should be the same or cheaper than the other weapons to make up for their downside. Or just give them a lot more attack dice.

1 hour ago, BadMotivator said:

What really needs to happen is the Exaust weapons need to be recosted appropriately. They should be the same or cheaper than the other weapons to make up for their downside. Or just give them a lot more attack dice.

Yeah the whole exhaust/recover mechanic is weird and punitive. You can't effectively re-price these things without making the game opaque to new customers. I don't know how to fix it.

6 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

I take them all the time. I hate this mentality though. It's what usually what happens in a points-buy games: someone relentlessly sets themselves to figuring out the best value unit, the data gets spread via the internet in a seconds, and everything else becomes "overpriced". Personally I like using my AT-ST against armies of tons of stripped down infantry units. Small infantry units are reliably destroyed by a single attack from an AT-ST. It is easy to win, when the enemy is dead.

Or because you don't like taking all the same heavy weapon? It looks weird, and is boring. People used to say the exact same thing about taking any special weapon besides meltaguns in 40k. It never stopped me from taking one of every special weapon. Grenade launchers look cool, flamers fit a certain aesthetic, and plasma guns remind me of X-Com.

True although, I could always blow them apart using impact grenades? Not sure. None of my friends really wants to play imperials at the moment so it's been a long time since I've gotten to play rebels. For awhile at the beginning it was the reverse, don't know why. One thing about playing an all-snowtrooper army, I have a lot of impact grenade and grappling hook cards that my rebels can use too!

As you say, the AT-ST can vaporize a trooper unit, why would they allow one to get within Range 1 with those? (It is open knowledge what upgrades they have, after all)

The AtSt can also flub their rolls or the defending unit can roll all blocks. All of these things have happened ro me. The AtSt is overpriced pointwise because it doesn't consistently erase trooper units. The opposite is true statistically. Hence the declaration that it is overpriced. The fact that a 90pt Speeder Bike unit does more consistent damage due to action economy is real. The fact that i can get 3 z6 units for the price of one atst is real. The AtSt has better health range, defense and is a vehicle, but the range advantage usually disappears after turn1. I didn't say they weren't fun to play, but don't argue that they aren't overcosted, compared to almost every other unit, they are overpriced for damage output and health. 2 atrts are cheaper and more effective no matter how you load them out. In my area, 60-70% play Imperials. My experience and the statistical fact of probabilities has made the ions unremarkable. The alternative weapon is always cheaper and easier to use and gets more use due to action economy. Maybe a commander ability in the future will pass out ready actions like Veers and Leia pass out aim and dodge tokens

55 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

2 atrts are cheaper and more effective no matter how you load them out.

Great point. From now on my snowtroopers and general Veers will take AT-RT's instead of an AT-ST.

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

The AtSt can also flub their rolls or the defending unit can roll all blocks. All of these things have happened ro me. The AtSt is overpriced pointwise because it doesn't consistently erase trooper units. The opposite is true statistically. Hence the declaration that it is overpriced. The fact that a 90pt Speeder Bike unit does more consistent damage due to action economy is real. The fact that i can get 3 z6 units for the price of one atst is real. The AtSt has better health range, defense and is a vehicle, but the range advantage usually disappears after turn1. I didn't say they weren't fun to play, but don't argue that they aren't overcosted, compared to almost every other unit, they are overpriced for damage output and health. 2 atrts are cheaper and more effective no matter how you load them out. In my area, 60-70% play Imperials. My experience and the statistical fact of probabilities has made the ions unremarkable. The alternative weapon is always cheaper and easier to use and gets more use due to action economy. Maybe a commander ability in the future will pass out ready actions like Veers and Leia pass out aim and dodge tokens

Worth noting, speeder bikes and AT-RTs are also vehicles, and so impacted by Ion (even though the bikes have no armor, and aren’t affected by impact)

Legion is an infantry game. Infantry objectives, infantry terrain. Add to this vehicles that suffer from the curse of Gygax - hit points - and there is no need for dedicated antitank weapons. You can kill tanks with a machine gun.