1 minute ago, Cassan said:

well    lets see if the evade from debris gambit is white as well.   

3a. evade is red. ****, well then i fo  cus.

3b. evade is white. cool, im gonna evade.  

But you are not allowed to check before actually committing to the action.

Your sequence leads to a free measurement that could be abused. What if I'm clearly at or beyond range 3? I could do your sequence, check for range and - depending on the result - know that I'm in range for a lock.

How do you think Poe and a Daredevil boost works?

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

But you are not allowed to check before actually committing to the action.

why? point me to the rules.

the measurement is not "free". you are only allowed to do it, because you have debris gambit equipped and need to know the difficulty of the action to not push a red action of poe.

you can do abusive range checks every time you are allowed to measure. that would be an argument against measuring in general.

In order to measure specifically to check whether your red evade becomes white, yes.

Incidental knowledge doesn't change the timing of the card.

4 minutes ago, Cassan said:

you can    do abusive range checks every time you are allowed to measure. that  would be an argument against measuring in general.

Give me an example of any other in-game interaction allowing you to check if the enemy is in R3 before you decide to spend your action on trying to lock it

Just now, ryfterek said:

Give me an example of any other in-game interaction allowing you to check if the enemy is in R3 before you decide to spend your action on trying to lock it

drea.

2 minutes ago, Cassan said:

drea  .

Um, Dream triggers in the engagement phase. At this point everyone has right to measure how they please upon engagement and actions have been performed.

But alright. Any pre-action activation phase interaction, just don't mention lock action itself, please...

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

In order to measure specifically to check whether your red evade becomes white, yes.

why do i have to do an action thats possibly going to be replaced to even measure?

im pretty sure we all agree that debris gambit gives you a legal opportunity to measure "at some point".

why do you think my "at some point" is illegal and yours is not?

Just now, ryfterek said:

Um, Dream triggers in the engagement phase. At this point everyone has right to measure how they please upon engagement and actions have been performed.

take the phantom for example. you can dock at range 0-1.

when are you allowed to measure? remember dock cannot fail.

3 minutes ago, Cassan said:

drea.

Honestly no idea how Drea helps you avoid wasting your action on a lock without enemies in range.

1 minute ago, Cassan said:

why  do i have to do an action thats possibly going to be  replaced to even  measure?     

Well, for one, because "to replace" actually literally mean to have one thing, take it away, and put another thing in it's place? That would be pretty reasonable, understandable and intuitive to asume that there has to be something to be replaced in order to replace it, but what do I know, eh?

3 minutes ago, Cassan said:

why   do you think my "at some point" is illegal and yours is not?

It's that "while you perform red Evade action" that the card in question literally begins with causing justs itsy bitsy of a problem. Probably makes us think there ought to be some, well, "performation of red Evade action" going on in here in order for the card to work, but again, how could we possibly jump to this conclusion reading the card, eh?

8 minutes ago, Cassan said:

debris  gambit gives you a legal opportunity to measure "at some point".

It can be illegal for Poe if the range is wrong. FFG solved that by saying the action starts as red and can maybe treated as white if the condition is met.

Just now, ryfterek said:

Well, for one, because "to replace" actually literally mean to have one thing, take it away, and put another thing in it's place?

it doesnt matter what it literally means. its defined in the rrg. and a replaced effect NEVER occured. not for a tiny bit of the fraction of a second.

Just now, ryfterek said:

It's that "while you perform red Evade action" that the card in question literally begins with causing justs itsy bitsy of a problem. Probably makes us think there ought to be some, well, "performation of red Evade action" going on in here in order for the card to work, but again, how could we possibly jump to this conclusion reading the card, eh?

whos is "we" and "us"? me and my 100 buddies all agree.

and again: an action cannot be red and then white.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

FFG solved that by saying the action starts as red and can maybe treated as white if the condition is met.

"FFG" never said that. an action CANNOT start red and end white. it is either white or red. just measure to play with a correct game state.

7 minutes ago, Cassan said:

take the phantom for example. you can dock at range 0-1.

when are you allowed to measure? remember dock cannot fail.

When you attempt to dock. And it clearly can fail, if you're not in range.

You can only measure in this game when a rule requires you to.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

When you attempt to dock. And it clearly can fail, if you're not in range.

You can only measure in this game when a rule requires you to.

it cannot "fail", with "fail" as a game term. there is no downside to not be able to dock. thats why i mentioned it.

debris gambit requires you to measure.

4 minutes ago, Cassan said:

replaced  effect NEVER  occured

Per RR definition - only after the replacement effect had been executed / performed.

4 minutes ago, Cassan said:

whos  is "we" and "us"? me and my 100 buddies all agree.

Um, I hoped you'd notice me, @GreenDragoon , and @thespaceinvader all taking our time to explain/argue, but I'm afraid we're not commonly worth a plural form, mates. #sadReactionsOnly

I give up, you playing against the rules or not doesn't influence me a bit after all, so why am I even?

To anyone reading this thread in the future, you've got all possible arguments laid out... Some by a +28 reputation user, other by a total sum of +18,616 reputation users... I know, a close call so choose wisely, future reader.

And for God sake, @OfficialRules , take some bloody time out there to scout these topics every now and then and clarify some bits. We're paying decent stashes of money for your 5cm long plastic figurines and fans of cards, show some respect, please?

4 minutes ago, Cassan said:

it cannot "fail", with "fail" as a game term. there is no downside to not be able to dock. thats why i mentioned it.

debris gambit requires you to measure.

It can fail. If you're out of range you don't dock.

Debris Gambit requires you to measure yes.

At a specific time. While you're performing a red action.

You asserting nonsense doesn't make the nonsense correct.

Just now, ryfterek said:

only after the replacement effect had been executed / performed.

so you are saying the replaced effect did occur before being replaced but did not occur after it was replaced?

Just now, ryfterek said:

To anyone reading this thread in the future, you've got all possible arguments laid out... Some by a +28 reputation user, other by a total sum of +18,616 reputation users... I know, a close call so choose wisely, future reader.

do you count as official ruler when you get reputation beyond 10k?

im so sorry that i even posted with my pathetic 28 rep.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

You asserting nonsense doesn't make the nonsense correct.

thank you as well for your kind words.

3 minutes ago, Cassan said:

so  you are saying  the replaced effect did occur before being replaced but did not occur after it was replaced?

RR: " When  a replacement effect resolves, the replaced effect is treated as having not occurred    ."

You: But what "replaced effect" you mean?! There was never EVER any effect before my replacement effect! What are you even talking about?!

Just now, ryfterek said:

You: But what "replaced effect" you mean?! There was never EVER any effect before my replacement effect! What are you even talking about?! 

yes. it doesnt matter. only the replacement matters.

1 minute ago, Cassan said:

thank you as well for your kind words.

You're welcome. It is indeed kind to point out when people are not making sense. You could show your appreciation by mending your ways.

3 minutes ago, Cassan said:

im  so sorry that i even posted    with my pathetic 28 rep.

It was all right of you to begin with. At some point though, you should trigger some "While you argue over the same thing for the 100th time, if the opposing player is clearly more experienced than you, take some time for self-reflection and give your opinion a second thought".

1 minute ago, Cassan said:

only  the replacement  matters

All hail the replacement effect! Long live the replacement effect!