Excellent reply from FFG. I know they've already modified their packaging once for this product. The 12 deck boxes used to have the decks vertical. Now they are laying flat. Evidently, the vertical configuration was more susceptible to damage while shipping.

It really seems like FFG cares and I love it, while it was unfortunate that I got scammed. FFG did what they could to make things right and are working on the packaging to prevent this going forward. This incident was able to show a dedicated company that is willing to listen and adapt to the current market.

Fun fact: Barnes and Nobles's Card games section is run by another company that leases the floor space from Barnes and Noble. They likely won't know about wahts different here. Its common among bigboxes. Tell them to contact their vendors.

I know that in days gone by, I've noticed Magic boosters - or similar random products - to be enclosed in plastic boxes (similar to those video games often are at Target). Perhaps they will switch to such methods for KeyForge.

4 minutes ago, Duciris said:

I know that in days gone by, I've noticed Magic boosters - or similar random products - to be enclosed in plastic boxes (similar to those video games often are at Target). Perhaps they will switch to such methods for KeyForge.

That is to prevent theft. Odds are these were purchased and returned. Opening a box, scanning it, and resealing it while still in the store seems a bit risky, even for the small time thief.

20 hours ago, xbeaker said:

Seems like only a week ago I was agreeing that this could be an issue, while @10Ten and @WonderWAAAGH mocked me for saying it was all but impossible and the odds of it occurring were next to nothing. I guess a major retailer is what 10Ten would consider a Shadey McShadeypants. Also a shame you din;t have his legendary nose, which can sniff out glue long after it has cured.

That really does suck. I know my wife purchased there for our Nephew. My Mother-In-Law paid $20 a deck on Amazon because she didn't know better, I hope those are untampered at least. Obviously this isn't B&N opening, it is someone buying, opening at home, then returning them. I still stand by the opinion that while FFG is not responsible for the actions of others, a die which perfs the box making it more difficult to open and cleanly reseal, and a black box on the wrapper making the scanning of in-the-cellophane decks impossible would be nice.

IDK. Brand new forum account, making unsubstantiated wild claims, could just be you 'proving' that this "supposedly happened".

Why would someone scan an unsealed deck? And where is the other deck?

Howdy @10ten Keyforge is new and I found the forum, you seem kinda aggressive man. "Unsubstantiated claims"? I got screwed and that's a fact. I don't know why I am compelled to defend myself versus you, but here is my receipt.

Look at my profile I've been around for years (Descent) B&N hosed me for the reals. I do not like your slander. Both decks were sealed.

The other deck I like it is here: https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/7804dd03-20fa-4373-955f-6e9874a44375

@10Ten it seems I still messed up the tagging above. Just wanted to call this post out to you.

It’s not fact, you’re speculating that is what happened. FFG themselves replied to you some decks act “buggy” and will not scan. It’s just as likely this happened.

while I personally certainly don’t think you are trying to deceive anyone, I do think you are in error when stating you are certain this happened, because there simply is no way to know. And as an aside, that deck you showed is is pretty decent, I wouldn’t call it bad at all.

4 minutes ago, Palpster said:

It’s not fact, you’re speculating that is what happened. FFG themselves replied to you some decks act “buggy” and will not scan. It’s just as likely this happened.

while I personally certainly don’t think you are trying to deceive anyone, I do think you are in error when stating you are certain this happened, because there simply is no way to know. And as an aside, that deck you showed is is pretty decent, I wouldn’t call it bad at all.

I do like the second deck. The entire situation seemed suspect as both decks did not give aember and it's possible to reseal. Sure there is a chance this did not happen, but you have to admit there is a chance it did. Either way I am never buying cards from B&N again.

I was just perturbed that @10Ten is slandering me.

44 minutes ago, Greenknight08 said:

I do like the second deck. The entire situation seemed suspect as both decks did not give aember and it's possible to reseal. Sure there is a chance this did not happen, but you have to admit there is a chance it did. Either way I am never buying cards from B&N again.

I was just perturbed that @10Ten is slandering me.

He was actually slandering me. He is saying that you are a second account I created just to make the false claim that there were opened decks (granted, they could have been an error) to prove him wrong. Of course this means I would have created a "Brand New forum account" over 4 years ago since it looks like you have been active since Feb of 2014. And that I sat on that account for all this time just in case I need to make some false claim. lol @10Ten won't be deterred by logic though.

1 hour ago, 10Ten said:

IDK. Brand new forum account, making unsubstantiated wild claims, could just be you 'proving' that this "supposedly happened".

Why would someone scan an unsealed deck? And where is the other deck?

Brand new? LOL his account is over 4 years old! You'd think you'd smell the glue drying if I was scamming you wouldn't you?

And why would someone scan an unsealed deck? To get the aember shard (which will be redeemable for prizes at some point) and to check if the deck was viable for resale. They open the deck, see if it is valuable. If it is, you put it up on ebay if it is something that would resell (unscanned). Scan the rest, keep a few others you like maybe, reseal them and return the others.

And where is the other deck?! What are you the detective in charge of the case? He doesn't owe you proof.

Also like to point out the response he got from FFG. This bit in particular: We are aware of the problem of people scanning and resealing decks and have a few ideas on how to solve the problem. As you said, redesigning the deck boxes is one such idea! I can’t guarantee when you’ll start seeing these changes (given our production schedule) but it’s on our list! In the meantime, you may want to alert your local retailer and let them know about the problem.

Hmm.. sounds like FFG understand it is a problem, and one they can fix within a reasonable budget. And that even though they bear no responsibility for the actions of others committing scams, they are going to try to help make those scams more difficult to pull off. Where have I heard the before?

Lemme guess, you are gonna say I generated that reply too. lol Wonder what you'll say when those changes come to being.

51 minutes ago, Palpster said:

It’s not fact, you’re speculating that is what happened. FFG themselves replied to you some decks act “buggy” and will not scan. It’s just as likely this happened.

while I personally certainly don’t think you are trying to deceive anyone, I do think you are in error when stating you are certain this happened, because there simply is no way to know. And as an aside, that deck you showed is is pretty decent, I wouldn’t call it bad at all.

What is certain is that he got decks that provided no Aember shard. I am a programmer, so I know weird things can happen. It is possible that for whatever reason these 2 decks had a bug that just made them not register as first time scans. But it is more likely they were returned. B&N has a pretty generous return policy. And the teller isn't going to inspect what appears to be a sealed deck for signs of possible tampering. And that he said they appeared to be below average decks also lend to the theory they were opened before. But yes, based on the information, it is impossible to know either way.

I would suggest if anyone else runs into a deck which provided no Aember straight out of the deck, before you scan any others go to the app and search for the names of decks. That is a sure way to see if they were registered or not. It may not help you either way. But it would prove it was scanned, not just a bug.

15 minutes ago, xbeaker said:

What is certain is that he got decks that provided no Aember shard. I am a programmer, so I know weird things can happen. It is possible that for whatever reason these 2 decks had a bug that just made them not register as first time scans. But it is more likely they were returned. B&N has a pretty generous return policy. And the teller isn't going to inspect what appears to be a sealed deck for signs of possible tampering. And that he said they appeared to be below average decks also lend to the theory they were opened before. But yes, based on the information, it is impossible to know either way.

I would suggest if anyone else runs into a deck which provided no Aember straight out of the deck, before you scan any others go to the app and search for the names of decks. That is a sure way to see if they were registered or not. It may not help you either way. But it would prove it was scanned, not just a bug.

You are more than willing to accept random guy's explanation, well not surprising because it fits your own narrative, but having a second account is outrageous?

Those decks are by no means 'really bad'.

2 minutes ago, 10Ten said:

You are more than willing to accept random guy's explanation, well not surprising because it fits your own narrative, but having a second account is outrageous?

Those decks are by no means 'really bad'.

Yeah, I am. It is a perfectly reasonable scenario. I don't think anyone said it was 100% that it was opened and returned. It could have been a bug as well. But way to blame the victim.

And yeah, me sitting on an account for 4 years and then using it concoct a story to prove that something that is obviously possible, is possible is pretty absurd. Sorry, but your opinion of whether it could happen isn't that important to me.

The decks don't have to be really bad. They could just be something that aren't obvious sellers on the secondary market.

@Green Knight08 and @xbeaker

I would suggest you no longer engage with 10Ten on this one. He clearly is unwilling to accept your scenario as possible. Nothing more will come of arguing with him. One thing I can tell you is from having over a decade of a direct personal connection to B&N is that I suspect that it was an employee. My wife worked for them for years even going so far as to run one of their stores. They do not pay top dollar for their hourly staff. They have to weed through a lot of people who are not the most stand up humans. There is a lot of shrinkage in their stores. There are a lot of employees who will take advantage of a number of policies and loop holes. They are almost always dramatically understaffed and there are places employees could easily even just sit hidden away in the storage areas and do this right in the store. Typically they are so understaffed that there are large areas of a store that most employees would never even have call to visit in a given shift. They work in zones.

The scenario of a customer doing so and returning the items is also very likely. B&N will basically take anything that they carry or have carried in the past back as a return and have a policy to not argue with the customer. In the last few years they have become so desperate to not lose out on potential customers they have to let some of the most obnoxious people abuse the **** out of them.

We don't really need tamper proof stickers, but FFG just needs to flip the card list. As long as that is hidden, there is no danger. People will see resealed plastic wrap.

Right now, FFG is allowing this type of scamming to happen. It was lack of foresight which allowed them to leave the deck list showing.

23 hours ago, xbeaker said:

That really does suck. I know my wife purchased there for our Nephew. My Mother-In-Law paid $20 a deck on Amazon because she didn't know better, I hope those are untampered at least. Obviously this isn't B&N opening, it is someone buying, opening at home, then returning them. I still stand by the opinion that while FFG is not responsible for the actions of others, a die which perfs the box making it more difficult to open and cleanly reseal, and a black box on the wrapper making the scanning of in-the-cellophane decks impossible would be nice.

It could be returns, but also employees of the store. Either is very likely or probable. As for the solution, all FFG has to do is flip the deck list card. Easy Peezy..... The problem is that I've bet they've printed and packaged a ton already. If FFG cares, they'll take the hit to cost and flip that card for future printings. As it stands, they are the cause for any theft or fraud of their players. They didn't protect their product, period.

2 minutes ago, KFMixer said:

We don't really need tamper proof stickers, but FFG just needs to flip the card list. As long as that is hidden, there is no danger. People will see resealed plastic wrap.

Right now, FFG is allowing this type of scamming to happen. It was lack of foresight which allowed them to leave the deck list showing.

This.

Flip the card list OR put the QR code somewhere else that requires the deck be fully opened.

I'm still curious what the KFG website is going to do for second hand decks. If I sell a deck to someone, can they still claim it? Will embershards only happen with the first owner?

I think we have a great solution by simply flipping the Archon card. I do like the aesthetic of a sealed deck you can see, but it is not worth the hassle this is causing the community.

Just now, KrisWall said:

Flip the card list OR put the QR code somewhere else that requires the deck be fully opened.

Or.... people were talking about a tamper proof sticker.

Couldn't they just put the sticker over the deck code on the plastic? There would be little way to get past that without tearing the sticker or plastic.

1 minute ago, Krashwire said:

@Green Knight08 and @xbeaker

I would suggest you no longer engage with 10Ten on this one. He clearly is unwilling to accept your scenario as possible. Nothing more will come of arguing with him. One thing I can tell you is from having over a decade of a direct personal connection to B&N is that I suspect that it was an employee. My wife worked for them for years even going so far as to run one of their stores. They do not pay top dollar for their hourly staff. They have to weed through a lot of people who are not the most stand up humans. There is a lot of shrinkage in their stores. There are a lot of employees who will take advantage of a number of policies and loop holes. They are almost always dramatically understaffed and there are places employees could easily even just sit hidden away in the storage areas and do this right in the store. Typically they are so understaffed that there are large areas of a store that most employees would never even have call to visit in a given shift. They work in zones.

The scenario of a customer doing so and returning the items is also very likely. B&N will basically take anything that they carry or have carried in the past back as a return and have a policy to not argue with the customer. In the last few years they have become so desperate to not lose out on potential customers they have to let some of the most obnoxious people abuse the **** out of them.

Yeah man, no question there. I spent many years in the trenches of retail. Working at Software Etc. (before it became GameStop.. I am old haha) The manager of 1 store I worked was blatantly ripping the place off. We got demos of a lot of software, in many cases we got full releases of stuff, games and productivity software that were intended as promos for the staff. He would claim the more valuable stuff, then 'return' it to the store. As the manager he could override the need for a receipt. When called on it, he claimed there was nothing wrong with it, or he was doing it to add another copy to the store stock. He was the worst example, but the staff definitely stole more for any store I worked at than the customers.

1 minute ago, KFMixer said:

I'm still curious what the KFG website is going to do for second hand decks. If I sell a deck to someone, can they still claim it? Will embershards only happen with the first owner?

You can actually register a deck that was already registered, you just don't get the aember.

Just now, Greenknight08 said:

I think we have a great solution by simply flipping the Archon card. I do like the aesthetic of a sealed deck you can see, but it is not worth the hassle this is causing the community.

It's a great theoretical solution, but the problem is the printing flow. Have they already printed millions of decks? I would hope they'd flip for future printings, but how long will that be? Are they constantly printing decks? Is that why they're always out of stock?

If it is all printed backstock, then there's not much chance of having them flip the card. Also, placing a sticker would be able to fix current printed decks, and it wouldn't inflate costs too much.