On 1/1/2019 at 2:05 AM, Smudger13 said:

Jumping on this thread following the redirect Wurms.

I can definitely see the potential of the homing missile on the SF. My personal preference is to have aces to play with as well though so I was wondering whether 3 homing missiles is enough?

The squad I posted in the other thread is as follows;

quickdraw, Backdraft and PS2 SF with fanatical midnight and targeting synchroniser.

All the SFs have homing missiles, gunner on QD and you still have some points for upgrades.

I6 TS Midnight should be useful to target lock with good board knowledge to set up the strike, and the aces all have good options in the late game.

I suppose my thought is whether the strength of this style of list is in the numbers.

3 Homing Missiles is good for a legit threat. 3 dmg is half of Kylos and Lukes and almost dead awings, etc. They cant just hang out at range 3 and pick you apart, or hit and run and boost to range 3 for protection. Death by a thousand paper cuts. This aint an alpha strike. Its slow torture. Being in arc = dmg. Its like ABT. It sucks. Unless a 3 agility ship is behind a rock to get that 4th dice, they can't take the chance.

3 green dice with a focus vs 4 reds with a lock is 1.22 expected hits (43% for a crit)

4 green dice with a focus vs 4 reds with a lock is .79 expected hits.

I like the idea of Midnight as Syncher. Might give it a try. Allows Quickdraw to save a focus for defense if needed, or else a revenge shot. BD is high PS than Zetas/Omegas and adds a red dice. I will see if I can test it tonight:

Will probably go with this:

"Midnight" (44)
Fanatical (2)
Targeting Synchronizer (5)

"Quickdraw" (45)
Fanatical (2)
Homing Missiles (3)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (3)

"Backdraft" (41)
Fanatical (2)
Homing Missiles (3)
Fire-Control System (3)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (34)
Homing Missiles (3)

Total: 200

Homing makes a lot of sense on Backdraft... with 3-dice rear shots, the gunner isn't an absolute must, and Homing gives a lot more threat on the approach. Init 4 isn't too bad for getting locks, either.

That's a really nifty looking list, @Smudger13 . Midnight can lock the most threatening target, making it harder to get blasted down before the rest of your squad shoots.

7 minutes ago, wurms said:

3 Homing Missiles is good for a legit threat. 3 dmg is half of Kylos and Lukes and almost dead awings, etc. They cant just hang out at range 3 and pick you apart, or hit and run and boost to range 3 for protection. Death by a thousand paper cuts. This aint an alpha strike. Its slow torture. Being in arc = dmg. Its like ABT. It sucks. Unless a 3 agility ship is behind a rock to get that 4th dice, they can't take the chance.

3 green dice with a focus vs 4 reds with a lock is 1.22 expected hits (43% for a crit)

4 green dice with a focus vs 4 reds with a lock is .79 expected hits.

I like the idea of Midnight as Syncher. Might give it a try. Allows Quickdraw to save a focus for defense if needed, or else a revenge shot. BD is high PS than Zetas/Omegas and adds a red dice. I will see if I can test it tonight:

Will probably go with this:

"Midnight" (44)
Fanatical (2)
Targeting Synchronizer (5)

"Quickdraw" (45)
Fanatical (2)
Homing Missiles (3)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (3)

"Backdraft" (41)
Fanatical (2)
Homing Missiles (3)
Fire-Control System (3)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (34)
Homing Missiles (3)

Total: 200

I think I'd cut FCS from Backdraft for a bit of a bid. With Midnight having Targeting Synchronizer (so you often won't bother locking), and Homing Missiles seldom actually spending the lock, FCS is probably not super needed. I feel like a baby-bid of 3 points could probably help out.

8 minutes ago, wurms said:

3 Homing Missiles is good for a legit threat. 3 dmg is half of Kylos and Lukes and almost dead awings, etc. They cant just hang out at range 3 and pick you apart, or hit and run and boost to range 3 for protection. Death by a thousand paper cuts. This aint an alpha strike. Its slow torture. Being in arc = dmg. Its like ABT. It sucks. Unless a 3 agility ship is behind a rock to get that 4th dice, they can't take the chance.

3 green dice with a focus vs 4 reds with a lock is 1.22 expected hits (43% for a crit)

4 green dice with a focus vs 4 reds with a lock is .79 expected hits.

I like the idea of Midnight as Syncher. Might give it a try. Allows Quickdraw to save a focus for defense if needed, or else a revenge shot. BD is high PS than Zetas/Omegas and adds a red dice. I will see if I can test it tonight:

Will probably go with this:

"Midnight" (44)
Fanatical (2)
Targeting Synchronizer (5)

"Quickdraw" (45)
Fanatical (2)
Homing Missiles (3)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (3)

"Backdraft" (41)
Fanatical (2)
Homing Missiles (3)
Fire-Control System (3)

Zeta Squadron Survivor (34)
Homing Missiles (3)

Total: 200

I’d love to know how you get on. Haven’t been able to put it on the table yet.

I wanted FO to be my faction of choice but I’ve really struggled to find something competitive and enjoyable.

On paper this squad looks to have some tools and interesting pilots

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Homing makes a lot of sense on Backdraft... with 3-dice rear shots, the gunner isn't an absolute must, and Homing gives a lot more threat on the approach. Init 4 isn't too bad for getting locks, either.

That's a really nifty looking list, @Smudger13 . Midnight can lock the most threatening target, making it harder to get blasted down before the rest of your squad shoots.

I think I'd cut FCS from Backdraft for a bit of a bid. With Midnight having Targeting Synchronizer (so you often won't bother locking), and Homing Missiles seldom actually spending the lock, FCS is probably not super needed. I feel like a baby-bid of 3 points could probably help out.

FCS should up the damage output midgame. Once the opponent goes for Midnight or QD first, Backdraft is free to lock that next round.

8 minutes ago, wurms said:

FCS should up the damage output midgame. Once the opponent goes for Midnight or QD first, Backdraft is free to lock that next round.

I guess it's just a personal taste thing. FCS might help damage a little, but I also feel like there'd be a bit of a benefit to having a bigger chance to move second against other Init 6 ships.

8 hours ago, Smudger13 said:

I’d love to know how you get on. Haven’t been able to put it on the table yet.

I wanted FO to be my faction of choice but I’ve really struggled to find something competitive and enjoyable.

On paper this squad looks to have some tools and interesting pilots

Won 2 games tonight. Like the list. Gonna keep flying it til I see the weaknesses then try and fix. First game was Poe / Talli / Bomber dude that drops bombs after moving.

Bomber dude had traj simulator as well, and came at my squad from an angle, so I had to turn away. I was going for Poe, but Talli landed right in my squads lap the next round. Ate 2 HMs damage from Quickdraw and Backdraft and a range 1 from Zeta who got 2 hits and a crit that finished her off. Poe barrel and boosted and then Midnight turned and landed range 1 of him. Poe ate a range 1 shot from Midnight, loses his shields. My Zeta took a ton of damage that round, meh. Next round my squad turns toward the bomber, but turns arcs backwards. Poe eats 2 HMs and has 2 hull left. Zeta dies. Poe has regen bot and runs off to regen 2 hull, I keep midnight on Poe and plink one damage back. Backdraft and Quickdraw are working on Bomber. Midnight eats it after a bomber natties 3 hits and Midnight blanks out. Quickdraw and Backdraft destroy bomber and Poe cant withstand both SFs and their arcs. Poe on 1 hull, gets blocked by backdraft and Quickdraw range 1 full modded finishes it. Quick survived with 1 hull, Backdraft full. Fun game and that bomber made things difficult to maneuver around.

Game 2 was Boba / Lando Falcon / Escape Craft / Quad

****, I love homing missile spam. Midnight locks Boba, does 1 dmg - cause Midnight. The 3 SFs all HM for 3 more dmg. Next round, Zeta blocks Boba. Midnight gets 2 dmg through, and QD and BD use their 2nd HMs for 2 more dmg. Boba has 2 hull left. Next round Midnight is range 1 on Boba. Midnight rolls 2 crits. Boba has a focus and calc from 000 and rolls double eyeballs. Midnight says "No way Jose" and Boba is dead. FCS on Backdraft was killer in this game. I just did about four or 5 1-straights in a row focus and FCS reroll on Falcon, while it tried to take out Quick or Midnight. the others took out Craft and Quad. Falcon tried but it was too much. 200-0 win. 2shields gone on all 3 SFs and Midnight loss his shield.

Looks very nice. I think you're right with Midnight as a choice for the Targeting Synchroniser - Null is higher initiative, but that's literally all he offers, and sitting there holding a lock whilst pew-pew-ing ineffectually with TIE fighter primary weapons isn't especially useful.

Midnight, by comparison, picks up a great deal of passive offence and defence from locking someone, so even if he hasn't got a focus or evade token, he still takes some killing (because you did lock the biggest threat in the enemy squad, right?), meaning [a] he's much harder to kill before the homing missiles fire, and if he somehow survives after the missiles are expended he's still actually useful.

Added to that, unlike the original draft (quickdraw and a passel of zetas), both Quickdraw and Backdraft are capable of fighting effectively on their own without Midnight's support; even if missiles are taken out of the equation by Outrider, Captain Kagi, or some sort of jam-token-fest, they're still high initiative, 3-dice-primary, agility 2, 6-hit medium fighters, and can go toe-to-toe with a pair of named X-wings (or whatever) in a fair fight.

Great write up Wurms! Glad to hear the squad has potential!

I’ll be running it at a wave champs on the 13th - will post in here with results.

34 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Looks very nice. I think you're right with Midnight as a choice for the Targeting Synchroniser - Null is higher initiative, but that's literally all he offers, and sitting there holding a lock whilst pew-pew-ing ineffectually with TIE fighter primary weapons isn't especially useful.

Midnight, by comparison, picks up a great deal of passive offence and defence from locking someone, so even if he hasn't got a focus or evade token, he still takes some killing (because you did lock the biggest threat in the enemy squad, right?), meaning [a] he's much harder to kill before the homing missiles fire, and if he somehow survives after the missiles are expended he's still actually useful.

Added to that, unlike the original draft (quickdraw and a passel of zetas), both Quickdraw and Backdraft are capable of fighting effectively on their own without Midnight's support; even if missiles are taken out of the equation by Outrider, Captain Kagi, or some sort of jam-token-fest, they're still high initiative, 3-dice-primary, agility 2, 6-hit medium fighters, and can go toe-to-toe with a pair of named X-wings (or whatever) in a fair fight.

This is what drew me to this version. It utilises the HM mechanic but also has some game if, for whatever reason, that doesn’t work. Sounds like Wurms did a good job of using the HM against Poe and Boba for example which is where they can really shine. And yes, Midnight can do so much more

It does make me wish - my one bugbear from the First Order conversion kit - that there were more named TIE/sf pilots. A squad of named aces "plus Ensign Ricky" bugs me at an aesthetic level.

I'm not sure exactly why FFG made the decision they did on how to divvy up the new pilots:

• The Shuttle pilots - fair enough. The named pilots are flight controllers, commanders and fleet officers.
• The TIE/fo already had more pilots than you can possibly use at the same time, and they gave it three more (Rivas, Malarus, TN-3465).
• The TIE/vn also had as many unique pilots as you could use at once (because Kylo + Blackout didn't leave room for even a third generic silencer), and they gave it two more (Avenger, Recoil)
• The TIE/sf already was in the situation where a special forces squad was the two named pilots plus Ensign Ricky, and the option of effectively swapping missiles for special forces gunner means taking four named pilots wouldn't be out of the question, and it got.....no-one.

I really don't get that particular decision. It's even more annoying because TN-3465 would have been a perfect choice:

• She's a canonical SF pilot who actually flies a special forces TIE in the comics
• Her pilot ability - essentially a reverse-ruthless - would have been so much more suitable for the TIE/sf - not only does it have thicker shields but it's lower agility so a shield upgrade costs less

Rivas does fly a TIE/fo, so that's where he belongs, and whilst Malarus is an awesome pilot, the one time we see her in a dogfight she's actually flying Black One (long story, don't ask), so there's no real wrong place to put her; a TIE/fo is fine. But it's irksome TN-3465 isn't in a TIE/sf.

I agree with this @Magnus Grendel .

It feels like the forgotten ship of the expansion a little.

However, those rear firing missiles do add something.

Cant wait to give the list a go!

8 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Rivas does fly a TIE/fo, so that's where he belongs, and whilst Malarus is an awesome pilot, the one time we see her in a dogfight she's actually flying Black One (long story, don't ask), so there's no real wrong place to put her; a TIE/fo is fine. But it's irksome TN-3465 isn't in a TIE/sf.

Rivas would have made a good SF Pilot, getting locks from stressed ships. Woulda seen more play than his FO counterpart, thats for sure. An I5 Malarus would have been ideal though. With 2 agility these things can melt, and Malarus can last a bit longer from swarm attacks and the glitter would be great when you line up the double shots with the title. I feel the SF needed an I5 pilot as well, **** Awings got two of them. Disappointed Backdraft was left off the I5 list from PS7s in 1st edition just like Torani. I dont see any reason why after seeing Redline at I5 at 44pts.

But the dial is much improved from 1st edition and makes a big impact on the ship. 3 sharps are white making turning around rocks and large ships a lot easier. The blue 2banks make the ship less predictable when stressed and helps clear stress around ships like 4lom, giving you more options. And that 5 straight, FINALLY!!!

"Whats the that, Poe?"

"Yes, yes it does."

14 hours ago, wurms said:

Rivas would have made a good SF Pilot, getting locks from stressed ships. Woulda seen more play than his FO counterpart, thats for sure.

I really like him as a TIE/fo pilot, to be honest. He's cheap and cost-effective - agreed, he's less powerful in a TIE/fo than he would be in a TIE/sf, but he's still less expensive than even a generic Omega Squadron Ace, and he can pretty much get focus/lock attacks every turn since his ability triggers off just about everything - stress tokens, other target locks, tractor, ion or jam tokens. Besides, he should be in a TIE/fo in the same way TN-3465 should be in a TIE/sf - it's the ship they actually fly in the comics.

Malarus would make more sense in the /sf if you really wanted to pick an I5 pilot - as noted, whilst she's clearly a good dogfighter (arguably better than Poe!) she doesn't fly any specific First Order fighters during the Poe Dameron series. I'm kind of surprised they didn't make her the I6 pilot instead of Omega Leader/Midnight.

Interesting build someone was discussing - cluster missiles/hotshot gunner. That's two moderately expensive upgrades to staple to a special forces TIE, but being able to peel focus/calculate tokens off two ships is not bad at all, especially if following up with stuff like juke.

Sfs are good the dial has been improved, it has 5 white straight and it's hard 3 is white it was red.

Rear firing missiles are good and qd is still good.

On 1/8/2019 at 1:43 PM, Magnus Grendel said:

Interesting build someone was discussing - cluster missiles/hotshot gunner. That's two moderately expensive upgrades to staple to a special forces TIE, but being able to peel focus/calculate tokens off two ships is not bad at all, especially if following up with stuff like juke.

Doesn’t hotshot gunner only work for primaries?

34 minutes ago, RoockieBoy said:

Doesn’t hotshot gunner only work for primaries?

No. Only for attacks. The TIE/sf is unique that it can fire missiles from that arc thanks to Heavy Weapons Turret.

7 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

No. Only for attacks. The TIE/sf is unique that it can fire missiles from that arc thanks to Heavy Weapons Turret.

Cool! Thanks!

52 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

No. Only for attacks. The TIE/sf is unique that it can fire missiles from that arc thanks to Heavy Weapons Turret.

Interesting. So most missiles would trigger it.

I'm not sure if Homing Missiles will, presuming the opponent takes the single damage. My first thought is no, since this skips the Attack Dice and Defense Dice steps, thus skipping the "modify defense dice" step, which would leave Hotshot Gunner without a trigger.

Correct. It makes it even more likely the target will just take the hit, but that's probably not worth 7 points. It's not a bad combination with cluster missiles (for token-stripping scatter fire) or ion missiles (because they're the cheapest 4-charge range 3 missile).

From looking at what folks are doing and discussing around Resistance RZ-2 A-Wings, Advanced Optics on a generic SF might have potential. Double-arc, a bit tankier than an A-Wing, and a pretty open dial, but no option to Boost (particularly boost with Focus). So it can't move as well at high speed, but it gains slower 1-straights and 1-banks, which are nice to have. It also never has to guess about arcs: just start split, and you'll never have to change it.

Playing around with stuff, something like this becomes an easy option:

• Zeta Squadron Survivor (Advanced Optics) 38
• Zeta Squadron Survivor (Advanced Optics) 38
• Zeta Squadron Survivor (Advanced Optics) 38
• Zeta Squadron Survivor (Advanced Optics) 38
• Backdraft (7 points of upgrades) 48
  • There's a decent number of BD options.
  • Optics would fit in with the rest of the theme of the list.
  • Pattern Analyzer seems fun, kinda the old Kath Scarlet trick: start off by showing the opponent your whole *** and still getting a focus token.
  • Fanatical is the faction Talent, and it wouldn't be bad, given the interaction between Optics and Fanatical. But it's also only going to be on two dice, and only after a ship is half dead.
  • Fire Control System on BD isn't bad, and would fit along side Optics and a 1-point talent like Crack Shot.
  • Trick Shot might lowkey be really good. It gets stronger when there are more arcs to worry about.
    • TS/PA seems sweet; pick a rock and Segnor's Loop or 1-Hard in front of it.
  • Homing Missile probably isn't worth it, given the increased point cost, and the fact that BD is only mid-high Init.

Other obvious options:

• Omega Squadron Expert (Advanced Optics) 40 [x5]
  • Oddly awkward, since while the Conversion Kit includes 5x tiles for Omega Squadron Experts, it only includes 4x ship cards. A bizarre oversight.

or

• Omega Squadron Expert (Trick Shot, Advanced Optics) 42
• Omega Squadron Expert (Trick Shot, Advanced Optics) 42
• Omega Squadron Expert (Trick Shot, Advanced Optics) 42
• Omega Squadron Expert (Trick Shot, Advanced Optics) 42
• 32 points of TIE/FO.
  • That could be an Optics Epsilon. Reliable-enough dice, but the Init 1 in an Init 3 squad is going to bother me.
  • Muse fits, but doesn't seem quite right here.
  • TN-3465 would add a lot of reliability to the dice, but there's again the Init awkwardness.
  • An Omega Squadron Ace TIE/FO, with... probably Crack Shot. Nice to match initiative, but I'm not super into it.
  • Another option would be to run 3x SFs, but 2x FO Omegas, with Optics and Fanatical at 37 each.

//

Busting out of the pure swarm, 3x Optics SFs of some flavor could easily fit along side a Kylo, a Blackout, or a Tavson.

Here's a nutty squad that's almost surely bad, but kinda makes me laugh:

• Zeta Squadron Survivor (Advanced Optics) 38
• Zeta Squadron Survivor (Advanced Optics) 38
• Zeta Squadron Survivor (Advanced Optics) 38
• Lieutenant Dormitz (Hyperspace Tracking Data, Advanced Sensors, General Hux) 82

So you can forward deploy all your Zetas (at Init 2...) but they'll have Evade from HTD, can take a red focus with Hux, and then have another action to Lock or Barrel Roll. I'm sure it's trash, but it's funny to me.

@wurms I've been trying to test fly the SF list at the start of this second page on FlyCasual. Sadly FlyCasual doesn't seem to have homing missiles available and the app simply does not like any FO list I make as my dice rolling is the absolute opposite to the AI's winning rolls. But in moving on and trying to at least practise flying the list and learning it, are there any hints you can give to flying this list as a beginner please? I'm trying to keep a bit of a formation and focus targeting but I'm still very new to the game in terms of 'flight hours', but I'd like to get my SF's to work as I really like the ship and models.

On 1/8/2019 at 1:43 PM, Magnus Grendel said:

Interesting build someone was discussing - cluster missiles/hotshot gunner. That's two moderately expensive upgrades to staple to a special forces TIE, but being able to peel focus/calculate tokens off two ships is not bad at all, especially if following up with stuff like juke.

that's very interesting indeed. i'm thinking munitions failsafe here. it makes you cancel all attack dice, but do you skip the defence dice because of that? i don't think you do, since there is nothing in the rules reference stating that you only roll defence dice if there are no attack dice left.

you can't browse the forums right now, so i can't make a post in the rules section.

On 2/16/2019 at 5:52 PM, infyrana said:

@wurms I've been trying to test fly the SF list at the start of this second page on FlyCasual. Sadly FlyCasual doesn't seem to have homing missiles available and the app simply does not like any FO list I make as my dice rolling is the absolute opposite to the AI's winning rolls. But in moving on and trying to at least practise flying the list and learning it, are there any hints you can give to flying this list as a beginner please? I'm trying to keep a bit of a formation and focus targeting but I'm still very new to the game in terms of 'flight hours', but I'd like to get my SF's to work as I really like the ship and models.

Homing missiles increased in price so the squad is 6 pts over now. Backdraft would have to be reduced to a generic.

In terms of flying, i kept the zeta and backdraft out front so they were the better targets for opponent to shoot at.

Use the rear arcs a lot. Fly over and around opponents ships. Its your one unique advantage, so use it. It makes your oppoment have a hard time predicting where your ships are gonna be when you can straight left or right and still get shots. They have a 1 in 3 chance of guessing correctly