Increase all high init pilots and then offer negative cost no ability upgrades for every slot?

13 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

always strikes last.

Light beams get to their targets immediately; missiles are torpedoes must physically travel the distance at sublight speeds. Bye-bye alpha strikes; everyone gets a zeta strike. So now ordnance can be more powerful. . .but you might not live to see it hit.

I like this. You would still lock according to your PS but you would have to survive to the end to fire the ordnance. Would you be able to switch to guns (at PS 1) if the intended target was dead by the time it was your turn to fire?

Also, In cases of equal PS you should alternate pilots (starting with the person with initiative) not one whole team and then the other.

21 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Increase all high init pilots and then offer negative cost no ability upgrades for every slot?

High initiative pilots are inherently better at picking up a lock, and we’re seeing way too many munitions across the board. While I find this much more attractive of a meta than turret wing (I had agency when I ended up in that arc), it’s probably not quite where the developers wanted it to be.

So, your choices are:

- Change how locks work, which is inelegant and extremely unlikely

- Price torps high enough that they’re always an edge case on anyone

- Price torps by initiative band: 1&2, 3&4, 5&6

- Raise the costs of problematic pilots at I5 and I6

- Make torps less attractive on problematic pilot

Of these options, I think the last is the cleanest. Limited pilots get special abilities that set them apart, but they haven’t been priced exceptionally higher in most cases. There are lots of people that want to build theme lists, and I don’t want to rain on that parade when the chassis and abilities aren’t fundamentally broken. If we get to a point where people argue that there’s a meaningful difference between I2 and I3 munitions, then I’d argue that you’re playing the meta, and the solution is not solved by points. If you get caught by a torps on a Red Squadron Vet, then you know who to blame.

Limited pilots are predominantly I4-6, so hitting them directly is an 80% solution and very straightforward. Yeah, it’s not perfect, and other options exist, but I’d argue it’s the best solution for the least work on FFG’s part.

1 hour ago, BenDay said:

I like this. You would still lock according to your PS but you would have to survive to the end to fire the ordnance. Would you be able to switch to guns (at PS 1) if the intended target was dead by the time it was your turn to fire?

Also, In cases of equal PS you should alternate pilots (starting with the person with initiative) not one whole team and then the other.

Well, the way I would run it is this:

TL and Declare the shot as usual. Place a "inbound ordnance" token on the defender as a reminder of the "zeta strike."

Finish all other combat stuff. If the defender is destroyed by a lightbeam first, the missile/torp shot is wasted--it was already on the way. Otherwise, roll attack and defense for the "inbound" and remove the token at clean up.

Thus a IN 1 missile and a IN 6 missile are exactly equal in effect and can be exactly equal in cost.

*****

Because the idea that every bloody upgrade in the game would operate on a sliding scale based on INIT is a hilariously stupid nightmare without a workable electronic listbuilder. And even then, I think it's a bad idea.

Recosting the value of INIT on all pilots is the way to fix things, not recosting the upgrades. Clearly, banishing VI and Adapt did nothing to clean up the PS war, since the Value Of Going First is still an unresolved issue. It would seem to me that high INIT aces should be more expensive. . .it would make room for mid-level aces as well as generics in the game, and make choosing high INIT less obvious.

OTOH, it might mean you see Luke, Vader, Han, and all the heroes less, leading to complaints about that. . .

10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

T  hus  a IN 1 m  issile and a IN 6 missile are exactly  equal in effect and can be exactly equal in cost  .   

Nice idea but the problem remains getting the target locks, the initiative 1 pilot probably hasn’t got one. This is the same problem low initiative TIE Advanced have as their ability requires a target lock (and in turn the same problem for the TIE Advanced in 1.0 which is why I ran low PS pilots with Accuracy Corrector and not Advanced Targeting Computer).

It would have been interesting if, instead of an "acquire a lock" action, there was simply a "discard one focus token to acquire one lock" at the end of activation.

Could still be done, I suppose, as an upgrade.

It's not the same as "ATTACK: Focus" because you do have to get rid of the focus to pick up the lock.

18 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Nice idea but the problem remains getting the target locks, the initiative 1 pilot probably hasn’t got one.

Easy Solutions:

1. Well, that's why he's cheaper.

2. Change the conditions of TLs to make them easier to get (greater range, etc.).

3. Allow some ordnance a 180-degree arc, making missiles a way that low INIT can score a hit.

Hard Solutions:

1. Decide to get rid of Initiative altogether because it's broken.

2. Change the way ordnance works altogether.

3. Find a way to give heroes a different advantage over straight INIT.

20 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Nice idea but the problem remains getting the target locks, the initiative 1 pilot probably hasn’t got one. This is the same problem low initiative TIE Advanced have as their ability requires a target lock (and in turn the same problem for the TIE Advanced in 1.0 which is why I ran low PS pilots with Accuracy Corrector and not Advanced Targeting Computer).

I'm tempted to say that's Ok. A clean munitions strike in a dog fight should be a difficult thing to achieve, makes sense that your average grunt would struggle with it. Whether that's Ok in gameplay terms is obviously debatable.

17 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Ordnance   always strikes last.

Light beams get to their targets immediately; missiles are torpedoes must physically travel the distance at sublight speeds. Bye-bye alpha strikes; everyone gets a zeta strike. So now ordnance can be mo   re powerful. . .but you might not live to see it  hit. 

This is a beautiful solution. I love it.

5 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, the way I would run it is this:

TL and Declare the shot as usual. Place a "inbound ordnance" token on the defender as a reminder of the "zeta strike."

Finish all other combat stuff. If the defender is destroyed by a lightbeam first, the missile/torp shot is wasted--it was already on the way. Otherwise, roll attack and defense for the "inbound" and remove the token at clean up.

Thus a IN 1 missile and a IN 6 missile are exactly equal in effect and can be exactly equal in cost.

This is a brilliant idea.

While a lower I initiative pilot will find it hardrer to lock it will be balanced out by having board knowledge of the damage states of the enemy when it fires.

It also adds some more cool upside for the few pilots with combat phase repositioning.

@Darth Meanie I often don't agree with you but you have come up with an elegant system for ordinance that would improve game play while being very fluffy at the same time. Maybe ffg reads this stuff?