Kylo Ren ~ who are his best FO wing mates

By Cgriffith, in X-Wing Squad Lists

On 1/1/2019 at 8:04 PM, Cgriffith said:

Can you explain this example @Ryuneke

At first glance it incorporates the following:

The ability for Kylo Ren to not be attached to any wingmate, ship or within a certain range to fly effectively. It still allows Kyo to be a deterrant of attacks with ISYTDS if the Kylo player decides to use it. It's still SNR Kylo with Primed Thrusters.

The Tavson pick would also be my choice was well. Although I may consider a more offensively minded build I'd def. go with SL Snoke/and Phasma as the crew with HLC for the chance occassionaly to shoot 5 dice at all times. But what is the PA and BioHex in thier for what are you trying to accomplish? As for a two-ship list in this regard reinforce, 6 hull/6 shield is going to take awhile to get through and while that occurs hopefully Kylo can do some work.

I've been looking at this exact two ship build myself just with a more a more durable Kylo (SU, Proton Torps/SNR) and Tavson (FCS,HLC, Phasma/Snoke) 198 points.

For casual play I will put the shuttle on the table for sure. It looks nice and it has some decent tricks. But it's too slow and can get ignored easily. I think you really want a third ship in this list, for instance Kylo+Starkiller Base Pilot+Scorch. I played some more games with Tavson + Kylo and it wasn't breathtaking after all because I think there are better lists outside.

I had the time to play the following two lists 10 times each and it was lots of fun and I was pretty successful.

Both lists have Quickdraw. I really wanted to build the most efficient Quickdraw. I went through the whole dice calculator thing and did some math here and there and finally settled on those two builds:

"Quickdraw" (45)
Juke (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (3)

"Null" (31)
Squad Leader (4)
Biohexacrypt Codes (1)

Kylo Ren (82)
Supernatural Reflexes (12)
Primed Thrusters (8)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

This one has 200 pt. No bid. I put every point into the ships.
This QD has the most potential imo (for the points you have left). Null stays with her all the time by keeping a healthy distance. QD takes an evade and Null coordinates a lock. FCS gives QD one reroll which isn't awesome but better than nothing. The evade is really important to not lose all shields in one round. I always spent the lock if I must when performing a bonus attack to maximize QDs damage output. Sometimes this build really shines: 1) The ship you are shooting at doesn't have a focus-Juke!!!! 2) You are able to hold onto the evade and juke again when performing the bonus attack. 3) Because you are rolling naturals like a madman, you don't have to spend the lock. The next round will be beautiful.
Null is awesome because he gives QD so much flexibility. He takes a lock on Kylo asap. If Kylo is in trouble he can coordinate him wherever he is. Because of Null I don't mind the 0pt. bid.

"Quickdraw" (45)
Predator (2) or Fanatical (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

"Null" (31)
Squad Leader (4)
Biohexacrypt Codes (1)

Kylo Ren (82)
Supernatural Reflexes (12)
Primed Thrusters (8)

Total: 195

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

List 2 hast a 5pt. bid which can make a huge difference even if you have Null. This QD is not as good as the one in List 1. I tried both Fanatical and Predator and enjoyed both upgrades. Predator is nice because you're flying at I6 and coordinating at I7. So you know when you have the bullseye. If you have it then focus/evade, if not take whatever is best in this situation. Fanatical doesn't do a thing while shielded but really helps when your shields are down because you have lock/evade/force (in a perfect scenario). The bid only helped me in 2 games so far...

Most of the time QD gets the primary target first. When flying her carefully without mistakes I was able to trigger her ability twice...
Sometimes Null becomes the first target which is fine. He never died in one round and a I0 bumper + coordinator isn't bad too.

Edited by Ryuneke

So its a fun list right now, nothing you're seriously considering. @RyunekeThe two-ship Tavson/Kylo build; I see the QD/Null/Kylo you put up and mine is similar (7-2) currently. Just wondering if Tavson/Kylo 2 ship list might be viable in Hyperspace.

Edited by Cgriffith
12 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

Just wondering if Tavson/Kylo 2 ship list might be viable in Hyperspace.

Probably the biggest bugbear is the lack of biohexacrypt codes, meaning Kylo is on a shorter choke chain to the shuttle than you might like. It does mean you can go to town on kitting out the silencer, and can probably afford the optics/co-pilot 'big gun' option for the shuttle, too.

Great thread!

I think I will now roll Vader with Heightened Perception from here on out...

Anyone seeing success with different variations of Kylo led list, where does he sit when you consider who to put on the table? Any progress?

Kylo

(82) Kylo Ren
(12) Supernatural Reflexes
(8) Primed Thrusters
(8) Stealth Device
Points 110

(34) Zeta Squadron Survivor
(5) Cluster Missiles
Points 39

(34) Zeta Squadron Survivor
(5) Cluster Missiles
Points 39

Total points: 188

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already as I have not read every page, but this is pretty nice especially if you can preserve kylo MOV and splash enough damage from clusters to win on points. After first engagement the Zetas can continue with missiles out the rear so the opponent needs to deal with them.

I‘m flying Null/QD with different upgrades on QD. Juke/FCS works best for me. I tend to drop Primed thrusters from Kylo to get a higher bid....

Actually I’m pretty tired in figuring out which list is the best. Kylo is in a weird spot. He can get lots of problems on the table and can solo entire lists on the other hand. I played against 2 A wings and 2 T-75s (all I5) lately. I ended up with Kylo against 4 slightly wounded ships. Kylo killed every single ship without taking much damage.

To be fair I‘m waiting for points adjustments to see what’s possible with Kylo...

Edited by Ryuneke
On 1/22/2019 at 7:46 AM, Kijaucey said:

Kylo

(82) Kylo Ren
(12) Supernatural Reflexes
(8) Primed Thrusters
(8) Stealth Device
Points 110

(34) Zeta Squadron Survivor
(5) Cluster Missiles
Points 39

(34) Zeta Squadron Survivor
(5) Cluster Missiles
Points 39

Total points: 188

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already as I have not read every page, but this is pretty nice especially if you can preserve kylo MOV and splash enough damage from clusters to win on points. After first engagement the Zetas can continue with missiles out the rear so the opponent needs to deal with them.

I like the idea of to Zeta Survivors with Clusters but I’m not sure Kylo needs Stealth Device. You could easily remove it for Proton Torpedoes/Rockets and still keep that 10-11 bid. Very interesting for sure.

On 1/22/2019 at 1:13 PM, Ryuneke said:

I‘m flying Null/QD with different upgrades on QD. Juke/FCS works best for me. I tend to drop Primed thrusters from Kylo to get a higher bid....

Actually I’m pretty tired in figuring out which list is the best. Kylo is in a weird spot. He can get lots of problems on the table and can solo entire lists on the other hand. I played against 2 A wings and 2 T-75s (all I5) lately. I ended up with Kylo against 4 slightly wounded ships. Kylo killed every single ship without taking much damage.

To be fair I‘m waiting for points adjustments to see what’s possible with Kylo...

I agree I don’t use Primed Thrusters either, with the dial and autothrusters built in, if you are already using SNR his maneuverability doesn’t sure.

I feel like I’m in the same spot until the points adjustment in a few days trying to settle on a build is impossible because we don’t know where certain upgrades will end up, or will Kylo himself will as well. I am patiently waiting to see where the points will help Kylo settle in the meta.

With adjustments to Supernatural Reflexes and Primed Thrusters how does that change Kylo Ren, and wingmates?

NULL is out in my mind. Welcome longshot naked.

But now, thinking about kylo SR/tavson/longshot

30 minutes ago, batav said:

NULL is out in my mind. Welcome longshot naked.

But now, thinking about kylo SR/tavson/longshot

I have a build with those 3 that was legal a couple hours ago, need now to tweak it to make it all fit again. It sits at 206 currently.

15 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

I have a build with those 3 that was legal a couple hours ago, need now to tweak it to make it all fit again. It sits at 206 currently.

Make it naked except SR and you got a bid

3 minutes ago, batav said:

Make it naked except SR and you got a bid

That works at 195, if you add Phasma you’ll be right at 200.

So with the current points update what do you guys think Kylo should have? With supernatural reflex being 24 points for him now it's pretty hard on my list for him. I usually run him with SR and PT.

I will not put any more effort into Kylo listbuilding...

He‘s 100pts. with SR. Equipping PT and he’s at 109 pts. So all the problems mentioned in this thread remain. I think he’s fine for hyperspace but suffers major problems in extended.

My local community is pretty small. Not a single hyperspace event was played so far.

He has gotten cheaper, even though Primed Thrusters, Supernatural Reflexes and Proton Torpedoes all went through the roof. Thing is, even without those upgrades, he's still a high initiative TIE interceptor with 2 shields and some force charge - Hate seems nice and cheap and to suit "I'll Show You The Dark Side" well.

I think "budget Kylo" and some more capable wingmen (Backdraft and Quickdraw, for example) is the way to go.

QD, Midnight ans Optics Kylo in my list.

Im going to try a build with midnight, QD and kylo but run kylo with adv optics and hate. I think kylo can still be good, he just flies more like an tie interceptor that can take a hit.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

He has gotten cheaper, even though Primed Thrusters, Supernatural Reflexes and Proton Torpedoes all went through the roof. Thing is, even without those upgrades, he's still a high initiative TIE interceptor with 2 shields and some force charge - Hate seems nice and cheap and to suit "I'll Show You The Dark Side" well.

I think "budget Kylo" and some more capable wingmen (Backdraft and Quickdraw, for example) is the way to go.

This is my initial starting point with those 3 pilots, I think overall Hate Kylo will start to see more table time overall, although I think SNR is still okay (100 pt. Kylo) but then reduces options for wing mates drastically. Thoughts?

TIE/sf Fighter - •“Backdraft” - 53
•“Backdraft” - Fiery Fanatic (41)
Fire-Control System (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

TIE/vn Silencer - •Kylo Ren - 83
•Kylo Ren - Tormented Apprentice (76)
Hate (3)
Advanced Optics (4)

TIE/sf Fighter - •“Quickdraw” - 57
•“Quickdraw” - Defiant Duelist (45)
Fire-Control System (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

Total: 193/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

49 minutes ago, Muppetfluffer said:

QD, Midnight ans Optics Kylo in my list.

38 minutes ago, Thrst77 said:

Im going to try a build with midnight, QD and kylo but run kylo with adv optics and hate. I think kylo can still be good, he just flies more like an tie interceptor that can take a hit.

This was my first thought last night. Kylo still has potential to hit hard, and still has that great dial to clear all this autothrusters shenanigans. I must say I do like the idea of two I6s and an I5 not many lists can fit that onto the table. Thoughts?

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Midnight” - 46
•“Midnight” - Omega Leader (44)
Fanatical (2)

TIE/sf Fighter - •“Quickdraw” - 57
•“Quickdraw” - Defiant Duelist (45)
Fire-Control System (2)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

TIE/vn Silencer - •Kylo Ren - 95
•Kylo Ren - Tormented Apprentice (76)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Hate (3)
Advanced Optics (4)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I took a slightly different approach and added pattern analyzer to QD and advanced optics midnight instead of protons on kylo. Although protons on kylo might be worth trying out.

Edited by Thrst77

Got some pretty interesting stuff to try out but will definitely need to change my flying style for Kylo. I personally feel Hate isn't something you'd want since you don't want to be taking damage, I'd rather go with Heightened Perception. Might try a Kylo, Blackout and QD list.

Edited by Leahpar
1 hour ago, Leahpar said:

Got some pretty interesting stuff to try out but will definitely need to change my flying style for Kylo. I personally feel Hate isn't something you'd want since you don't want to be taking damage, I'd rather go with Heightened Perception. Might try a Kylo, Blackout and QD list.

I agree. Heighten Perception does fit better for what Kylo should do. A two Silencer, QD list does sound inviting.

6 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

I agree. Heighten Perception does fit better for what Kylo should do. A two Silencer, QD list does sound inviting.

Unfortunately I couldn't get QD to fit with them but I came up with something else.

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Scorch” - 37
•“Scorch” - Zeta Leader (35)
Fanatical (2)

TIE/vn Silencer - •Kylo Ren - 88
•Kylo Ren - Tormented Apprentice (76)
Heightened Perception (3)
Primed Thrusters (9)

TIE/vn Silencer - •“Blackout” - 71
•“Blackout” - Ill-Fated Test Pilot (64)
Trick Shot (2)
Pattern Analyzer (5)

Total: 196/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I'm just running through something in my head... what about Kylo with Instinctive Aim?

95 points gets Kylo, InstA, Proton Torpedoes, and Homing Missiles (or Cluster, for two attacks). What's cool about InstA is that you can Boost and Barrel Roll to safety, then just pop off some ordnance. Or fire after a K-Turn (and maybe Boost/Barrel Roll if you also equip Primed Thrusters).

giphy.gif

Who am I kidding, Kylo would never actually use the ordnance.

31 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm just running through something in my head... what about Kylo with Instinctive Aim?

95 points gets Kylo, InstA, Proton Torpedoes, and Homing Missiles (or Cluster, for two attacks). What's cool about InstA is that you can Boost and Barrel Roll to safety, then just pop off some ordnance. Or fire after a K-Turn (and maybe Boost/Barrel Roll if you also equip Primed Thrusters).

giphy.gif

Who am I kidding, Kylo would never actually use the ordnance.

Funny thing is the first “new” list I made was a Instinctive Aim Kylo. It’s something I see in my local area with Luke Skywalker (Instinctive Aim) it does free up actions for Kylo. I am leaning more Heighten Perception for the ability to engage at 7 but not having to use a lock action is very useful.

Is there statistical analysis available in regards to engaging at I7, and using a force charge to eliminate the need for locks? @theBitterFig

Edited by Cgriffith