Let me see the most effective builds everyone can think of:

Kylo Ren (82)

a. Quickdraw (45) - is easily the most used TIE/SF squadmate and very popular.

b. Midnight (44) - is an I6 although looking through lists not the most popular, seems Null and the I7/I0 is very inticing and at (31) points very afford for what "Null" does.

Is there any lists with Static/Longshot/Scorch. I know Null is very popular for the I7 flexibility, but are others useable? Can Kylo and 2 TIE/FO produce enough firepower to survive? Midnight/Static, Midnight/Scorch. etc. Is Kylo plus QD and 1 TIE/FO better. Kylo and two TIE/SF better, where is everyone at on this.

I think it depends on how you load them out. Midnight and QD are a solid go to. But if you load up Kylo, you may not have the points.

How are you planning to load Kylo? Hate, supernatural, just base pilot with no upgrades?

8 minutes ago, Biggsy_boy said:

I think it depends on how you load them out. Midnight and QD are a solid go to. But if you load up Kylo, you may not have the points.

How are you planning to load Kylo? Hate, supernatural, just base pilot with no upgrades?

Primary SNR and Afterburners. I thought Supernatural would be enough I’m just not sure it is.

Oh I DEFINITELY think SR is enough on Kylo. For wingmates?

Quickdraw, with a basis of FCS and the Gunner, is really really good. With PA, Shield Upgrade, and Fanatical, he gets even better. PA more so.

Null with Squad Leader and Biohexacrypt Codes is fun, but him, Longshot or Malarus, are all great with Fanatical, PA, and Hull Upgrade. Especially Fanatical.

Midnight with Fanatical at basis, Advanced Optics if possible, and a Hull Upgrade if the points are there, is also wonderful.

Other Silencers can also work. Recoil with Predator is fun. Just make sure you link yourself into stress every round. Blackout with Trick Shot is fun.

QD wants Elusive

1 minute ago, SOTL said:

QD wants Elusive

Why???????

To lose 1 shield at a time

7 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

Oh I DEFINITELY think SR is enough on Kylo. For wingmates?

I was thinking along the same lines, although I am noticing others believing Afterburners are also needed.

7 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

Midnight with Fanatical at basis, Advanced Optics if possible, and a Hull Upgrade if the points are there, is also wonderful.

So is Midnight the better overall choice with any of the TIE/FO because of dice mod, and inititative?

7 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

Quickdraw, with a basis of FCS and the Gunner, is really really good. With PA, Shield Upgrade, and Fanatical, he gets even better. PA more so.

Quickdraw with FCS and Special Forces Gunner seem auto-include. I wonder though if you swapped another TIE/FO in QD place can the firepower hold up? Is 2 TIE/SF truly the better choice? with Backdraft (Clusters, and Spec. Forces Gunner?) Just weighing options.

4 hours ago, Cgriffith said:

So is Midnight the better overall choice with any of the TIE/FO because of dice mod, and inititative?

Quickdraw with FCS and Special Forces Gunner seem auto-include. I wonder though if you swapped another TIE/FO in QD place can the firepower hold up? Is 2 TIE/SF truly the better choice? with Backdraft (Clusters, and Spec. Forces Gunner?) Just weighing options.

Midnight isn't absolutely better. A different role though, in some ways.

You can fit Kylo with 2 peak FOs or a decent QD and a decent FO, but not 2 decent SF, I'd say

I played lots of games with Kylo supince last week and I will play him with SR and primed Thrusters because sometimes I need to move first and use autothrusters afterwards. With PT the stress doesn’t matter and you can use SR. Without PT he gets way more predictable and that is not what he wants.

I had the most fun with the Upsilon shuttle as his wingmate.

(82) Kylo Ren
(12) Supernatural Reflexes
(8) Primed Thrusters
Points 102

(62) Lieutenant Tavson
(13) Supreme Leader Snoke
(5) Captain Phasma
(1) Biohexacrypt Codes
(5) Pattern Analyzer
Points 86

Total points: 188

I played 5 games with it and won every game. The thing is that everyone wants to see the shuttle dead asap. So I reinforced often which really is a great action and helps the shuttle to stay alive. And Phasma was so good because she hinders your opponent to k-turn behind you. Snoke helps Kylo against I6 and grants a soft focus.

what really impressed me is the fact that there are lists that can’t deal with Kylo.

5 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

Midnight isn't absolutely better. A different role though, in some ways.

You can fit Kylo with 2 peak FOs or a decent QD and a decent FO, but not 2 decent SF, I'd say

Would one of the Critical-specialists - "Static" or TN-3465 - be a good option? Both make it easier to trigger I'll Show You The Dark Side.

I do feel like people are picking Midnight too highly based on what he used to be, not what he is now.

The loss of Juke hurts a lot. The loss of Comm Relay hurts a lot. The reduction in dice mods generally devalues the importance of his ability. The increase in average ship counts on the table hurts a lot because he spends more time not in a 1-on-1 duel. And the trend towards hyper-maneuverable endgame ships hurts Midnight a lot because when he does find himself in a 1-on-1 duel it's with something he'll never be able to beat anyway.

56 minutes ago, SOTL said:

I do feel like people are picking Midnight too highly based on what he used to be, not what he is now.

The loss of Juke hurts a lot. The loss of Comm Relay hurts a lot. The reduction in dice mods generally devalues the importance of his ability. The increase in average ship counts on the table hurts a lot because he spends more time not in a 1-on-1 duel. And the trend towards hyper-maneuverable endgame ships hurts Midnight a lot because when he does find himself in a 1-on-1 duel it's with something he'll never be able to beat anyway.

Quite possibly. I think his ability is nice - and being now I6 is even nicer - but it's very much a case of "other TIE/fo pilots are also available" rather than the "OL or GTFO" attitude which prevailed with the chassis in 1.0.

He's a great answer to low-dice-high-mod-decent-initiative ships (Whisper springs to mind - you beat the Phantom's initiative and taking both focus and evade out of the equation on 2 dice makes a TIE/fo a credible threat) but not the answer to all your problems anymore.

"Scorch" is probably a better general purpose ship (just because he's a decent initiative, effectively 3-dice-primary ship for significantly less than 40 points), the talent slot makes "Null" amazing, whilst even Lieutenant Rivas can be surprisingly good value for money.

Agreed - what I didn't bother editting in was my recommendation to look at Scorch or Null as your default go-to /FO pilots.

If you're looking at Midnight can I remind you that he's 3pts more than Backdraft for 2 less shields and no rear arc, and only 1pt less than Quickdraw?

49 minutes ago, SOTL said:

I do feel like people are picking Midnight too highly based on what he used to be, not what he is now.

The loss of Juke hurts a lot. The loss of Comm Relay hurts a lot. The reduction in dice mods generally devalues the importance of his ability. The increase in average ship counts on the table hurts a lot because he spends more time not in a 1-on-1 duel. And the trend towards hyper-maneuverable endgame ships hurts Midnight a lot because when he does find himself in a 1-on-1 duel it's with something he'll never be able to beat anyway.

I gave up on her too. Too expensive for nearly no damage output.

Malarus with Juke and Scorch with Fanatical are my Kylo wingman’s. Malarus is really good cause she can tank shots and deal some damage combined with Juke thanks to her awesome ability. And she’s cheaper than Midnight

1 minute ago, SOTL said:

If you're looking at Midnight can I remind you that he's 3pts more than Backdraft for 2 less shields and no rear arc, and only 1pt less than Quickdraw?

In fairness, whilst I think generic TIE/sf can do pretty solid duty as the First Order's TIE Bomber analogue, I don't think I'd ever consider bringing Quickdraw without a Special Forces Gunner in the back seat.

Taking Backdraft without a spec ops gunner is an interesting option, though. You don't really need one if you have no practical intention of ever firing out the front arc, and a missile gives you the option of a 3-dice forward attack for significantly less points the one or two times you get a shot if you ever need it desperately.

Best of all, even that leaves him very cheap - little more than a generic X-wing for a respectable I4 and a great pilot ability.

Just now, Magnus Grendel said:

In fairness, whilst I think generic TIE/sf can do pretty solid duty as the First Order's TIE Bomber analogue, I don't think I'd ever consider bringing Quickdraw without a Special Forces Gunner in the back seat.

Taking Backdraft without a spec ops gunner is an interesting option, though. You don't really need one if you have no practical intention of ever firing out the front arc, and a missile gives you the option of a 3-dice forward attack for significantly less points the one or two times you get a shot if you ever need it desperately.

Best of all, even that leaves him very cheap - little more than a generic X-wing for a respectable I4 and a great pilot ability.

I agree about QD. But then the comparison of that 'eww do I want that?' naked QD to Midnight does make you wonder if maybe the naked QD is better and maybe actually that tells you quite a bit about Midnight, which you weren't realising if you looked at it in isolation?

3 hours ago, Ryuneke said:

I gave up on her too. Too expensive for nearly no damage output.

Malarus with Juke and Scorch with Fanatical are my Kylo wingman’s. Malarus is really good cause she can tank shots and deal some damage combined with Juke thanks to her awesome ability. And she’s cheaper than Midnight

So you have SR+Torpedoes on Kylo then? Or Thrusters?

How do you feel about the Damage Output of the list? Do you think it is enough?

1 hour ago, NABLA_OPERATOR said:

So you have SR+Torpedoes on Kylo then? Or Thrusters?

How do you feel about the Damage Output of the list? Do you think it is enough?

That’s the list. Only played 3 games so far:

(82) Kylo Ren
(12) Supernatural Reflexes
(8) Primed Thrusters
Points 102

(41) Commander Malarus
(4) Juke
Points 45

(35) "Scorch"
(2) Fanatical
Points 37

Total points: 184

like I mentioned above and in other threads, Kylo without Primed thrusters is a no go for me. List feels solid. I like Malarus with juke cause he can strip a token and helps Kylo and scorch that way.

On 12/13/2018 at 12:22 AM, Ryuneke said:

I played lots of games with Kylo supince last week and I will play him with SR and primed Thrusters because sometimes I need to move first and use autothrusters afterwards. With PT the stress doesn’t matter and you can use SR. Without PT he gets way more predictable and that is not what he wants.

I had the most fun with the Upsilon shuttle as his wingmate.

(82) Kylo Ren
(12) Supernatural Reflexes
(8) Primed Thrusters
Points 102

(62) Lieutenant Tavson
(13) Supreme Leader Snoke
(5) Captain Phasma
(1) Biohexacrypt Codes
(5) Pattern Analyzer
Points 86

Total points: 188

I played 5 games with it and won every game. The thing is that everyone wants to see the shuttle dead asap. So I reinforced often which really is a great action and helps the shuttle to stay alive. And Phasma was so good because she hinders your opponent to k-turn behind you. Snoke helps Kylo against I6 and grants a soft focus.

what really impressed me is the fact that there are lists that can’t deal with Kylo.

Can you give me an example sequence of moves of when you might use Primed Thrusters with Kylo over say Pattern Analyzer?

Well if you use autothrusters regularly (if not SRing them before a green), you will always end up stressed, unable to do reds, and thus, unable to use PA

1 hour ago, Greebwahn said:

Well if you use autothrusters regularly (if not SRing them before a green), you will always end up stressed, unable to do reds, and thus, unable to use PA

Ok thanks, that makes sense. I was thinking of something different.

Possibly related question, can Kylo perform an Action from Tav’s Coordinate if Kylo is Stressed? I’m assuming yes if Boost / Roll with Primed (assuming he hadn’t already performed the same Action this turn) but not something like Focus?

Yes if Boost/BRoll with PT, otherwise no, exactly

Wanna report back after more playtesting and trying different builds.

Finally I found two builds that I like and that performed well:

1)

Kylo Ren (82)
Supernatural Reflexes (12)
Primed Thrusters (8)

"Backdraft" (41)
Trick Shot (1)
Special Forces Gunner (10)

"Scorch" (35)
Fanatical (2)

Total: 191

Scorch and Backdraft are both at I4 which is ok and both are throwing 3 dice. Trick Shot helps Backdraft cause he has two arcs. Fanatical is decent on a Tie FO cause the chassis has only 1 shield. Most of the time my opponents (I played 7 games so far) wanted to kill Backdraft first. I really enjoyed both wingmans cause they created enough threat that cant be ignored. A 9pt. bid is enough for me...

2)

Kylo Ren (82)
Supernatural Reflexes (12)
Primed Thrusters (8)

"Quickdraw" (45)
Juke (4)
Special Forces Gunner (10)
Fire-Control System (3)

"Null" (31)
Squad Leader (4)

Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

No bid needed cause of Null. I'm really prefer better wingmans for Kylo atm instead of a super bid.

Until now everyone wanted to see QD dead asap. The evade action helps against that and gets Juke online at the same time. Null tries to stay out of the fight as long as possible and coordinates QD whatever she needs. FCS is good on QD cause you have a reroll at the first attack and you can spend the lock at the second attack. After QD is dead Null helps Kylo against higher initiative pilots.

Ach, yes, I LOVE that second list! Though I would probably ditch Primed Thrusters (if using SR, Kylo should be stress free after every move), MAAaaybe replacing with Pattern Analyzer, and I might trade Null for the wonderfully capable Longshot with Fanatical. A more independently capable fighter, freeing up all your ships from formations.