Poe/R4/Protorps/(Heroic?)
Nien/PA/(Daredevil?)
Bastian/Ptorps

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Trying to formulate my competitive Hyperspace list. I've flown Poe/Nien/+1 it a few times. Nien+PA is meta material, not much question in my mind. In case you don't know how PA interacts with his ability, he gets up to 3 actions and no stress.

The remaining point gap is too big for an A, to small for AA or Bomber, so a 3rd T70 seem like the answer. I've tried Jess as the 3rd, but thinking Bastian is roughly as good naked but obviously better with ptrops, and if ptorps fit I think you have to take ptorps. Not on Nien though due to his R1 proclivity.

Main thing I'm wondering is how to spend the last 4pts. I've currently got Daredevil on Nien and Heroic on Poe, which is fine ™ , just wondering if there are options I'm overlooking.

Debris gambit on Nien for a nice evade + focus + barrel roll on those red moves.

HLC on Poe opens up more options, like M9G8 on Bastian, or PA on Poe.

1 hour ago, wurms said:

Debris gambit on Nien for a nice evade + focus + barrel roll on those red moves.

HLC on Poe opens up more options, like M9G8 on Bastian, or PA on Poe.

Tried Poe/HLC + Bastian/M9 and felt pretty underwhelmed by it.

HLC is weird on Poe, it avoids the foils-closed non-BE die penalty by not being primary... but requires BE . A lot happier with ptorps which gives a non-BE firing option.

M9 is Meh. The reroll is before they mod, so you are looking at 1 in 4 of decreasing their hit count if they are single modded, 1/8 if they are double, and unless they nat a crit you have 1 in 8 to actually improve their result. It still has value ofc, but don't think its 7pts worth, not if we are looking for high efficiency.

Debris gambit doesn't give any econ or have any synergy other that being slightly more likely to be white than on a random ship.

Another option I am considering for the 4 flexible points is Crack on both Poe and Nien and Black One on Poe.

1 hour ago, prauxim said:

Debris gambit doesn't give any econ or have any synergy other that being slightly more likely to be white than on a random ship.

Debris Gambit isn't Hyperspace legal, btw. I wouldn't dismiss it for Extended, though. I know I'll consider it on Poe if I ever play him in Extended.

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

Debris Gambit isn't Hyperspace legal, btw. I wouldn't dismiss it for Extended, though. I know I'll consider it on Poe if I ever play him in Extended.

Actually now that I think about it, Nien and Poe both did tend have about 1-2 situation per/game where they had a latent TL an didn't really need and extra action, so maybe it is viable.

Wonder when it'll be legal.

Squad leader on Nein, Coordinate Poe to get him his 4 action turn. Plus Nien isn't worried it's a red action.

L'ulo currently as my 3rd. No synergy but he is an I5 and can also work and get Coordinated with Nien.

Plus you'll wanna give Poe primed thrusters.

2 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

Plus you'll wanna give Poe primed thrusters.

If you don't have a BB droid or the title, I don't think you'll care a whole lot about PT.

I have such uncoordinated thoughts for Resistance aces that I barely ever know what to say for such a list. There's just so many options!

Generally, I think Heroic is the best bang for your buck, especially on As. I also thing that Tallie and Lulo deserve Predator as their second EPT, because at I5 they should be able to line it up. If the points work, primed thrusters is also very useful on As.

PA is, of course, stapled to Nien. He doesn't really need anything else.

There are TOO MANY ways to build Poe. My fav has a basis of BB-8/a BB and primed thrusters, but I think the simplest is just an R4.

Bastian and Jess are both REALLY solid little trucks naked, or with PA.

As for which 3 to put together into the squad? Who knows!

6 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

Squad leader on Nein, Coordinate Poe to get him his 4 action turn. Plus Nien isn't worried it's a red action.

L'ulo currently as my 3rd. No synergy but he is an I5 and can also work and get Coordinated with Nien.

Plus you'll wanna give Poe primed thrusters.

I assume you also run BB/BB8? Either way, PT/SL seems like fun jank, but I don't think it generates anywhere near enough value to justify difference in power between Lulo and Bastian PTorps, plus I don't see Nien wanting to give his second mod away very often.

4 hours ago, gennataos said:

If you don't have a BB droid or the title, I don't think you'll care a whole lot about PT.

How do PT and the title interact?

2 minutes ago, prauxim said:

How do PT and the title interact?

PT would allow you to do red moves and still reposition, so you could do a 3-speed move, SLAM a talon roll, then boost or barrel roll. I'd probably skip PT if I didn't have a BB droid, though.

18 hours ago, prauxim said:

M9 is Meh. The reroll is before they mod, so you are looking at 1 in 4 of decreasing their hit count if they are single modded, 1/8 if they are double, and unless they nat a crit you have 1 in 8 to actually improve their result. It still has value ofc, but don't think its 7pts worth, not if we are looking for high efficiency.

It's not bad on Bastian because he can move a target lock around multiple times in a turn. .

• Lock Poe - give him a reroll.
• If he lands a damage card (which you'd hope he would with a torpedo), switch your lock to the target.
• Force the target to reroll a die. It's not - as you note - great at reducing damage if they have focus or rerolls and (especially!) both, but it is extremely good at reducing criticals to natural hits, which is a nice-to-have.
• Spend the lock on Bastian's own shot.
• If the enemy squad contains a swarm element, if the initiative 1 ships do any damage, lock their target, giving that friendly ship an M9-G8 'leg up' next turn whilst leaving Bastian free to focus or perform a red move.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It's not bad on Bastian because he can move a target lock around multiple times in a turn. .

• Lock Poe - give him a reroll.
• If he lands a damage card (which you'd hope he would with a torpedo), switch your lock to the target.
• Force the target to reroll a die. It's not - as you note - great at reducing damage if they have focus or rerolls and (especially!) both, but it is extremely good at reducing criticals to natural hits, which is a nice-to-have.
• Spend the lock on Bastian's own shot.
• If the enemy squad contains a swarm element, if the initiative 1 ships do any damage, lock their target, giving that friendly ship an M9-G8 'leg up' next turn whilst leaving Bastian free to focus or perform a red move.

I actually posted something similar in a different thread before I tried it, there are a lot of problems:

• Your main objective is focusing down an enemy ship, moving the TL off the priority target risks more than M9's benefit
• A potential use I posted in another thread was switching between enemy ship to trigger multiple enemy rerolls
  • ``Again, requires splitting fire, goes against your main goal
• Poe and Nien are usually fully modded and usually don't need rerolls anyway
• Even if you know Poe is not going to get a TL, to do what you say, you'd have to do one of the following:
  • get the lock before Poe fires at PS6, not likely
  • loose a mod on Bastion who has the enemy in arc, either by switching before he fires or by manually TLing Poe (and not focusing), negating any advantage
  • get the lock in the previous turn from Poe taking a damage after PS2 Bastion has fired, and already know Poe wont be getting a TL, again, not very likely
• PS1 that take are target locks are pretty much nonexistent

At the end of the day, PTorps on a ship that gets fully modded, gets the TL after everybody moves, and wants a secondary to prevent die loss with foils closed, just has more potential than M9

40 minutes ago, prauxim said:

loose a mod on Bastion who has the enemy in arc, either by switching before he fires or by manually TLing Poe (and not focusing), negating any advantage

I'm more talking about locking Poe turn 1 before the shooting ever starts. To be honest, that's what M9-G8 generally got used for in 1.0; lock a friendly, keep the lock there and give them persistent rerolls whilst they spend actions on boost or barrel roll (or now SLAM)

If you've got a shot on Poe's target, Bastian can capitalise by moving the lock over so he has rerolls for his shot too - presumably therefore a cheap focus/locked attack, good for finishing off a wounded opponent, and at the same time (depending on initiative order) maybe mess with that ship's attack. That doesn't require splitting fire; quite the reverse.

M9-G8 is, to me, primarily a support 'mech to lock friendlies, though. I wouldn't want to 'bounce' the lock between multiple targets because it doesn't trigger at the right point - it happens after damage is inflicted, which is too late to be useful.

Proton Torpedoes versus M9-G8 is a balancing act.

• M9-G8 benefits Poe (or Nien) firing at high initiative. Yes, they can both get double modifiers, but only if they can avoid needing to spend actions repositioning, and in Nien's case only if he can land a talon roll or koiogan turn with a target in arc at range 1 - which is hardly something you'll do every turn with no effort. It also provides a guaranteed benefit every turn even if no hull damage is inflicted (if Poe and Nien spend their turn chewing through reinforce tokens and shields, for example, Bastian won't get a lock), with the option of a focus/locked "finishing shot" primary if you do inflict hull damage, and the possibility to recover your lock on a friendly for free for next turn if facing an initiative 2 or 1 swarm.
• Proton Torpedoes deliver much more firepower - 4 dice focus/locked with an automatic critical - but if you don't land a damage card they do nothing, and when a target is already token-less and damaged, the difference between a 3-dice double-modified primary and a 4 dice double-modified torpedo isn't always that much. I can see the benefit of pairing with the closed foils for barrel roll/focus, though.

Some fair points. I didn't consider locking Nien on Turn 1, he usually can't get his ability off on the first 1-2 rounds of fire, so that would be a fair early game boost. Maybe I need to give M9 another try.

32 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I wouldn't want to 'bounce' the lock between multiple targets because it doesn't trigger at the  right point - it happens after damage is inflicted, which is too late to be useful. 

I mean switching after Poe/Nien land damage on a ship that's about to fire, so the timing works, not that's it'd always be ideal for reasons mentioned.

If I go M9, I now have 6 flex points, any suggestions?

Poe and Bastian both have their tech slots free. A pattern analyser for Bastian would let him talon roll and still get actions.

On 12/11/2018 at 10:19 AM, prauxim said:

Nien  +PA is meta material, not much question in my mind. In case you don't know how PA interact  s with his ability, he gets up to 3 actions and no stre  ss.

Please explain further.

It involves Nien doing a red move with foils closed to land in range 1 of an enemy and then PA focus into barrel roll before taking a TL. The theory is that you end up range 1 in bullseye to shed all the stress as you get it from red moves and linked actions.

Its not going to be something you manage to pull off every game!

On 12/11/2018 at 8:30 PM, prauxim said:

M9 is Meh. The reroll is before they mod, so you are looking at 1 in 4 of decreasing their hit count if they are single modded, 1/8 if they are double, and unless they nat a crit you have 1 in 8 to actually improve their result.

That's not true. They can't reroll a rerolled dice.

M9 is better if they're not focused, its true, but a TL makes no difference at all to M9.

7 hours ago, Dreadai said:

It involves Nien doing a red move with foils closed to land in range 1 of an enemy and then PA focus into barrel roll before taking a TL. The theory is that you end up range 1 in bullseye to shed all the stress as you get it from red moves and linked actions.

Its not going to be something you manage to pull off every game!

You don't have to land in R1 after the maneuver, only in the end.

I have done it at least once all 3 games. You only do the BR if you need it for R1 though, focus/TL or boost/mod are more common, probably %75 of rounds after the initial approach.

6 hours ago, SOTL said:

That's not true. They can't reroll a rerolled dice.

M9 is better if they're not focused, its true, but a TL makes no difference at all to M9.

Good point!

37 minutes ago, prauxim said:

You don't have to land in R1 after the maneuver, only in the end.

I have done it at least once all 3 games. You only do the BR if you need it for R1 though, focus/TL or boost/mod are more common, probably %75 of rounds after the initial approach.

Yeah ... he wanted to know how to get 3 actions.

39 minutes ago, Dreadai said:

Yeah ... he wanted to know how to get 3 actions.

Yeah ... I was responding to your incorrect statement that you had to land in range 1 after the maneuver

5 hours ago, prauxim said:

Yeah ... I was responding to your incorrect statement that you had to land in range 1 after the maneuver

Well done, you got an internet point.

so just so I understand this better with Nein and pattern analyser if I dial in a red manoeuvre with foils closed focus into a barrel roll which leaves me with 2 stresses one for the move and one for linked action as long as I am in range 0-1 of an opponents ship I can shed both stresses and then perform another action? Is that right cause I’ve been reading like I can only shed a single stress?