Snowtroopers released, also as both Hoth turrets, Hoth playmat announced - where is the Echo Base Troopers - how to play on Hoth without of those troopers?

paint rebel troops white.

Agreed, painted in the right colours...the Normal Rebel troops can look pretty good for hoth.

I honestly don't see how the "Echo Base Trooper" should differ significantly from the bog standard Rebel Troop besides model. They didn't have any special training unlike Snowtroopers, they were just the standard Rebel Trooper in cold weather clothing.

I would like to see echobase troopers on taun taun but I don’t see a need for a echo base trooper pack when the rebels we have now will look fine painted in Hoth colors.

Snow troopers were stormtroopers with different armor. Yet in the same they have different stats, abilities, and upgrades.

I see no reason why Rebs couldn't have the same thing differentiating Rebel Troops and Echo Base Troopers.

That being said, FFG likes to mirror their releases. Since we got Fleet Troopers/Snow Troopers, Imperials would need another trooper addition. Naval troopers?

Pretty easy to differentiate them. Give them a different keyword than the Rebel/Fleet Troopers (Dauntless, perhaps?) and give them the A-300 Blaster Rifle instead of the A-200 Blaster Rifle.

I predict that the next Corps units we'll get are Echo Base Troopers and Naval Troopers.

1 hour ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I honestly don't see how the "Echo Base Trooper" should differ significantly from the bog standard Rebel Troop besides model. They didn't have any special training unlike Snowtroopers, they were just the standard Rebel Trooper in cold weather clothing.

Wouldn't be embedded in a miserable cold-weather enviornment for months (or maybe years?) actually be better training than whatever cold-weather training Snowtroopers received? I mean, to the extent Rebel troopers do any training, they'd then be doing that training on Hoth, and it would require a different skill-set to accomodate their current experiences?

7 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Wouldn't be embedded in a miserable cold-weather enviornment for months (or maybe years?) actually be better training than whatever cold-weather training Snowtroopers received? I mean, to the extent Rebel troopers do any training, they'd then be doing that training on Hoth, and it would require a different skill-set to accomodate their current experiences?

Snowtroopers are frequently taken from recruits of cold weather worlds and then giving additional training on top of their own experiences.

Also, Echo base wasn't established until after the Battle of Yavin and was uncovered "less than a month" later. Hence why the Rebels barely managed to convert their T-47s prior to the discovery by the Empire.

9 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Also, Echo base wasn't established until after the Battle of Yavin and was uncovered " less than a month " later.

Source??????

ESB sure gives the impression that it's been a decent amount of time (which is good... generally the longer the time between films the better the world can be built). For instance the OT did a great job of world-building with filler dialogue. Han's whole most recent "run in" with a bounty hunter on Ord Mantell that happens sometime between Yavin and Hoth helps make it feel like the Rebels have been operating out of Hoth for awhile as the Empire searches.

But if you're telling me that in less than a month's time the Rebels hollowed out those monstrous caverns and docking bays in the solid ice, installed the energy grid and the infrastructure and facilities and the giant blast door and the humongous shield generator and mega ion-cannon... well I call BS.

Just because the T-47s hadn't been completely cold-fitted yet doesn't mean anything. The Rebels may have only gotten the T-47s a few days ago, perhaps in a shipment Han picked up near Ord Mantel... Even if they had the T-47s for a long time, cold-fitting them may have been much lower priority than so many other projects (e.g. the blast door, shield generator, the power sources, lightning, heating elements, med bay, etc. ...

38 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Snowtroopers are frequently taken from recruits of cold weather worlds and then giving additional training on top of their own experiences.

Also, Echo base wasn't established until after the Battle of Yavin and was uncovered "less than a month" later. Hence why the Rebels barely managed to convert their T-47s prior to the discovery by the Empire.

I don't really think this matters. If it did, we wouldn't see Echo base troops in other games.

38 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Source??????

ESB sure gives the impression that it's been a decent amount of time (which is good... generally the longer the time between films the better the world can be built). For instance the OT did a great job of world-building with filler dialogue. Han's whole most recent "run in" with a bounty hunter on Ord Mantell that happens sometime between Yavin and Hoth helps make it feel like the Rebels have been operating out of Hoth for awhile as the Empire searches.

But if you're telling me that in less than a month's time the Rebels hollowed out those monstrous caverns and docking bays in the solid ice, installed the energy grid and the infrastructure and facilities and the giant blast door and the humongous shield generator and mega ion-cannon... well I call BS.

Just because the T-47s hadn't been completely cold-fitted yet doesn't mean anything. The Rebels may have only gotten the T-47s a few days ago, perhaps in a shipment Han picked up near Ord Mantel... Even if they had the T-47s for a long time, cold-fitting them may have been much lower priority than so many other projects (e.g. the blast door, shield generator, the power sources, lightning, heating elements, med bay, etc. ...

https://www.starwars.com/databank/echo-base

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Echo_Base

According to canon, Hoth has naturally occurring caverns. Notice in the film the energy grid is very hodge podge and just kind of attached loosely on the walls, not secured or out of the way. Plus I think there are issues with base heating mentioned in at least the cut portions (in addition to R2 melting Leia's quarters) and ongoing problems with Wampa's wandering into the base. The impression I got from the film was a hastily thrown together base, not a long established outpost.

Also, in the canon comic Darth Vader 13: Vader Down, Part II which takes place between ANH and ESB, a T-47 is shown as being among the Rebel assets used in their attempts to kill or capture Darth Vader, so I'd say they're hardly new equipment to the Rebels by the time of ESB.

36 minutes ago, Xiervak said:

I don't really think this matters. If it did, we wouldn't see Echo base troops in other games.

The big difference between Legion and all previous games is a different license holder, which may affect whether FFG is allowed to do "reskins" of previous models, and if FFG considers the troopers on Hoth to be a seperate group. I'd rather see things like Saw's Partisans or the start of the Clone Wars armies than another version of Rebel Troopers.

Again, unlike with Snowtroopers which are a specialist branch of the Stormtrooper corps with specialty training and equipment, the troopers on Hoth are just the normal Rebel troopers in cold weather gear (which is represented in game as the "Environmental Gear" upgrade) per official canon.

Painting the Rebel Troopers in a white and tan scheme turns the Rebel Trooper box into a decent winter themed army, especially if one uses 3rd party alternate heads.

This whole thread seems like the devil is trying to get me to write a long and tiring rant about painting, in-game history, and out of game history. I will not take the bait.

I paint and I play but I only buy for sculpts. I want "real" Hoth rebel figures.

3 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I paint and play but I only buy for sculpts. I want "real" Hoth rebel figures.

I don't blame you, and I wouldn't mind some more variation in Rebel troopers/any other unit in this game than the single box of single pose models. But I think it's at best a very low priority. I'm honestly surprised none of the 3rd party miniature companies have made any.

34 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

The big difference between Legion and all previous games is a different license holder, which may affect whether FFG is allowed to do "reskins" of previous models, and if FFG considers the troopers on Hoth to be a seperate group. I'd rather see things like Saw's Partisans or the start of the Clone Wars armies than another version of Rebel Troopers.

Again, unlike with Snowtroopers which are a specialist branch of the Stormtrooper corps with specialty training and equipment, the troopers on Hoth are just the normal Rebel troopers in cold weather gear (which is represented in game as the "Environmental Gear" upgrade) per official canon.

Painting the Rebel Troopers in a white and tan scheme turns the Rebel Trooper box into a decent winter themed army, especially if one uses 3rd party alternate heads.

I look at it this way: 4-5 units of Rebel Troopers are the "building block" of my army.

I enhance them with Fleet Troopers if I'm wanting that feel. If I'm going for an Endor Strike Team feel, I add in Commandos. Early next year, I'll be able to build an army with a "Scariff Raid" feel to it.

I want Hoth Troopers to add for those times I want a Hoth feel to my army but I don't want just 2 more Rebel Trooper units with different paint schemes. I want something that plays differently. Give be different abilities and different pew-pew guns.

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Source??????

ESB sure gives the impression that it's been a decent amount of time (which is good... generally the longer the time between films the better the world can be built). For instance the OT did a great job of world-building with filler dialogue. Han's whole most recent "run in" with a bounty hunter on Ord Mantell that happens sometime between Yavin and Hoth helps make it feel like the Rebels have been operating out of Hoth for awhile as the Empire searches.

But if you're telling me that in less than a month's time the Rebels hollowed out those monstrous caverns and docking bays in the solid ice, installed the energy grid and the infrastructure and facilities and the giant blast door and the humongous shield generator and mega ion-cannon... well I call BS.

Just because the T-47s hadn't been completely cold-fitted yet doesn't mean anything. The Rebels may have only gotten the T-47s a few days ago, perhaps in a shipment Han picked up near Ord Mantel... Even if they had the T-47s for a long time, cold-fitting them may have been much lower priority than so many other projects (e.g. the blast door, shield generator, the power sources, lightning, heating elements, med bay, etc. ...

There is 3 years between ANH and ESB, with the Rebellion mostly on the run from the Empire after they kicked the hornet nest that was destroying the first death star. Echo Base is just the latest of many bases that they had to cobble together. The Rebellion seemingly for the most part used preexisting areas when it could to establish their bases like with Dantooine and Yavin.

9 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

But I think it's at best a very low priority.

Well Endor/Scariff got two boxes of "real" troops each (troopers for either, commandos for Endor, Pathfinders for Scariff) and an AT-RT pilot. Painting stormtroopers black for Death Troopers is far more convincing at tabletop distance than painting Endor/Scariff rebels white. But we still got Death Troopers. FFG doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to their aesthetic choices.

I personally guess it's based on a behind the scenes witche's brew of licensing rules, artistic problems/opportunities, and who knows what else. For example I suspect the reason we got a box of highly redundant boxes of Endor and Scariff stuff so soon is simply that there were a bunch of unused sculpts from the Rebel Troopers box they wanted to use up.

They'd have to be mechanically distinct besides just built in Environment Gear, and at the moment I'm not seeing it. But FFG has been progressing with new mechanics, so I am sure they will eventually find something for such an iconic look. Or just accrete enough upgrades they can afford to release a box which is "more rebel troopers, but they look different and come with different upgrades".

1 minute ago, TauntaunScout said:

FFG doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to their aesthetic choices.

Yeah, because it's a game first, not a generic toy-line or like, modelling miniatures. I will say, I find it very interesting to see the complaints over lack of specific sculpts or sculpt variety. It proves the old adage about there being two sides to every story. I find it a bit weird people are clamoring for FFG to release more things they have to buy and less insistent they actually do something meaningful for the game, because normally In this day and age the opposite is seen as a problem - releasing something which is just a metaphorical new coat of paint and expecting you to buy the same product again at full price is generally frowned on. And not usually how FFG operates - re-releases for X-Wing were usually to bring them in line mechanically and the alternate paint-scheme is a bonus, similar with the Chimera ISD pack for Armada. I hope that those who want a specific Echo Base sculpt just for the sculpt get them someday, but I also hope FFG doesn't rush into them just to get the look out. Surely there's 3rd party sources if people want the look that badly, though?

10 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

For example I suspect the reason we got a box of highly redundant boxes of Endor and Scariff stuff

(Not to put too fine a point on it my dude, but it also could be because not only are Commandos and Pathfinders distinct military units, they are distinct different units in the Alliance Special Forces and mechanically distinct units in the game, in addition to being visually distinct)

The Hoth turret did come with rebels with Hoth/ cold weather gear while the E-web came with snow trooper models so I think its a pretty sure bet that Rebels will get Hoth sculpted troopers, it just depends on when . FFG was able to differentiate storm and snow troopers enough so I dont see why they couldn't do the same for Rebels.

Since the rebels from Rogue One/Scarif became SF, Id expect the next corps to be Hoth-Echo Base troopers and the Imps will get Naval troopers or Shore troopers.

34 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Yeah, because it's a game first, not a generic toy-line or like, modelling miniatures. I will say, I find it very interesting to see the complaints over lack of specific sculpts or sculpt variety. It proves the old adage about there being two sides to every story. I find it a bit weird people are clamoring for FFG to release more things they have to buy and less insistent they actually do something meaningful for the game, because normally In this day and age the opposite is seen as a problem - releasing something which is just a metaphorical new coat of paint and expecting you to buy the same product again at full price is generally frowned on.

Bolded text cannot be emphasized enough. I believe the opposite (or at least disagree) with pretty much all this. Different stats are fake, different sculpts are real. I frown on releasing similar models and using different stats as advertising.

It's not a game first and a model line second, nor is it the reverse: it is equally both things at all times. This feels alien to many of the FFG people I meet, but it's how I (and a whole industry's worth of other wargamers) have been doing things for decades. I paint what I'll play and play what I paint. At no point, during army selection, shopping, painting, or playing of games, do I ever divorce myself from either my gamer or toy collector side. Do you realize some publishers produce wargames and say "go find your own minis" and there are casters who make dedicated wargaming mini lines and say "go find your own rules" and they are able to make enough money? Devout players of FFG, GW, PP, and similar game companies find it incredulous but it's true. There's a huge ecosystem of weird little games and minis out there. Scraped all together they'd be bigger than GW I suspect.

I don't "have" to buy everything they release. I have not purchased commandos or scouttroopers, and I won't purchase pathfinders. I haven't bought Han, Leia, Palpatine, or royal guards. I have no plans to buy Jyn Erso, and the longer I reflect on it the less inclined I feel to buy Krennic or Death Troopers. So I am not clamoring for things I have to buy.

I will buy wookies and both boxes of 4 officers/droids. I will buy Echo base troopers if they release them. Someday when I get bored and make non-Hoth, sorta setting agnostic Imperial and Rebel armies, I'll finally buy a squad of rebel fleet troopers and who-knows-what commander since anything could be out by then.

2 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Surely there's 3rd party sources if people want the look that badly, though?

But at what cost? I've supplemented my units with a few 3D prints here and there and honestly it's cost-prohibitive to replace a full unit. Single figure to act as the third sniper or saboteur? Sure, I'll do that.

Even if it was cheap, I don't want just an esthetic difference. I do want a completely unique unit with it's own stats that differ from the Rebel Trooper.

9 minutes ago, FSD said:

I look at it this way: 4-5 units of Rebel Troopers are the "building block" of my army.

I enhance them with Fleet Troopers if I'm wanting that feel. If I'm going for an Endor Strike Team feel, I add in Commandos. Early next year, I'll be able to build an army with a "Scariff Raid" feel to it.

I want Hoth Troopers to add for those times I want a Hoth feel to my army but I don't want just 2 more Rebel Trooper units with different paint schemes. I want something that plays differently. Give be different abilities and different pew-pew guns.

Abilities maybe, default weapons unlikely since the Hoth troopers are armed with the A-280, but probably different special weapons.

Personally I'd love to see another Core unit option, but I don't necessarily see "Hoth Troopers" as having any major mechanical difference than "Rebel Troopers" in canon, no extra training, or specialized equipment. Of course, FFG could do something rewarding keeping them in heavy cover... Time will tell.

14 minutes ago, Jman444 said:

The Hoth turret did come with rebels with Hoth/ cold weather gear while the E-web came with snow trooper models so I think its a pretty sure bet that Rebels will get Hoth sculpted troopers, it just depends on when . FFG was able to differentiate storm and snow troopers enough so I dont see why they couldn't do the same for Rebels.

Since the rebels from Rogue One/Scarif became SF, Id expect the next corps to be Hoth-Echo Base troopers and the Imps will get Naval troopers or Shore troopers.

This doesn't necessarily follow. The models in the turret have Hoth gear because that is how we see it in the films. Much like how the Pathfinders have a hodgepodge of gear, including a Fleet Trooper helmet, and Hoth style uniform, or the Scout troopers having a pistol as a default weapon.

5 minutes ago, FSD said:

But at what cost? I've supplemented my units with a few 3D prints here and there and honestly it's cost-prohibitive to replace a full unit. Single figure to act as the third sniper or saboteur? Sure, I'll do that.

Even if it was cheap, I don't want just an esthetic difference. I do want a completely unique unit with it's own stats that differ from the Rebel Trooper.

I agree, if they are going to give us "Echo Base troopers" then I want them to be their own unique entity. Otherwise I would have prefered if FFG had just gone with multipart plastics for the models initially.

16 minutes ago, FSD said:

I do want a completely unique unit with it's own stats that differ from the Rebel Trooper.

Just so's it's corps! 3 corps per faction will be an important line to cross for the game I think.

This whole line of argument about "they aren't different in canon" is lost on me, I've been burned too many times before, in Star Wars and elsewhere. Canon will break your heart if you let yourself fall in love with it, kids. Canon is a thing, and things can't love you back. Unrequited love is the b-word.

I guess as the end of the day, this thread can go on for a year and all I can say is this: I love to play the actual game, but if they released rebels in ESB style snowsuits and gave them the exact same stats as either of the existing corps troops, I'd buy six. If another box of Scendorif style troops comes out with game breaking pay-to-win stats, I'll buy zero.