I just had a weekend where I got to teach 4 players keyforge. These players were aware of the game, but none of them had read the rulebook. I did not have a printed copy of the rulebook, so I needed to explain the game verbally. I provided all of the decks. All players involved are very experienced gamers. The new players attempted to make couple mistakes several times, and several of them had to do with the words the game chose to use. Here is a list. I am going to provide suggestions for better words, but I understand how difficult this would be to change at this point.

1) Use - The easiest way to describe this is that the word "use" has too much baggage already associated with it. I specifically called this one out in advance as something that might confuse you, but even that didn't stop them from interpreting the cards wrong. "Activate" is the first word that comes to mind that could have prevented this.

2) Fight - "fight" vs "fighting" vs "a fight" required clarification often. I think this could have been solved by using the word "Attack" for "fight", and then have "fight" mean the same thing as "fighting"

3) Action - Because the first left aligned word on most artifacts is "Action", and because action cards exist, most people wanted to play artifacts as actions. I have noticed that I don't actually think of action cards as action cards when I look at them. I just see them as a non-creature whose only ability is a play ability. I think this would most easily be fixed with card layout, but using the same keyword twice was probably a bad plan, and changing either would probably fix the issue.

I'm with you on this. The term "use" on Skippy Timehog seems counter-intuitive, I would much prefer something like activate. Activation doesn't have the same implications as use, especially for Action Cards.

2. Yes! I understand the desire to associating Fight with fight, and destroyed with destroy but they create a lot of confusion. There is still not a complete definition of fighting or fight in the rules. There are cards which are carried out as some undefined time, like Overlord Greking. "When a creature is destroyed fighting" for some reason, not defined in the rule book, permits Overlord Greking to take a creature even if the Overrlord is destroyed at the same time. This is counter to every other rule about fighting, so it feels like a mistake.

3. Honestly, I'd rather Action cards had no keyword at all. Can't Action card triggers immediately after amber is taken, unless explicitly stated otherwise?

Hi

I love Overlord Greking but feels broken when my opponent has basically the same worded phrase on Francus but when Francus dies the amber goes back to a player yet when Greking dies their effect still happens, LOL despite playing Greking the right way from the beginning...

Use: A player can USE a creature to perform an action from a creature if not already exhausted or stunned. USE does not remove a current status effect: Stunned or Exhausted.

Ready: A creature is READY when it is not exhausted or stunned, if a creature is exhausted or stunned prior to being READY, READY will remove the current status effect: Exhausted or Stunned. If the creature is merely readied from being exhausted they are now able to be used. If the creature is readied from a stunned status they are now exhausted (and, hypothetically, will require another card to ready them again to be used in that turn)

Fight vs Fighting is the one most confusing to me as one happens before and one happens after, personally it feels counter intuitive that the creature survives the fight to activate the fight ability, definitely see a lot of new players activating the fight ability before not after whereas fighting sounds more like it happens after.

Chains: ''(During Set-up)'' Does that little tiny phrase hidden in the paragraph on chains means that if you start the game with 3 chains you also start with 5 cards opening hand?

Biomatrix Backup: Can we just errata the ''may''? LOL

cheers

3 hours ago, player3686594 said:

when Francus dies the amber goes back to a player yet when Greking dies their effect still happens,  L

not 100% sure i follow your post, but both francus and greking have constant abilities:

Francus: After an enemy creature is destroyed fighting Francus, Francus captures 1[AE].

Greking: After an enemy creature is destroyed fighting Overlord Greking, put that creature into play under your control.

In both cases, these creatures need to survive the fight or the effect terminates simultaneously and the creature fighting greking will NOT be put under Greking's control, and Francus will not capture any aember due to his ability ending.

4 minutes ago, Poposhka said:

not 100% sure i follow your post, but both francus and greking have constant abilities:

Francus: After an enemy creature is destroyed fighting Francus, Francus captures 1[AE].

Greking: After an enemy creature is destroyed fighting Overlord Greking, put that creature into play under your control.

In both cases, these creatures need to survive the fight or the effect terminates simultaneously and the creature fighting greking will NOT be put under Greking's control, and Francus will not capture any aember due to his ability ending.

This is the opposite of our current local ruling because the wording on the card text is inconsistent with any of the Fight, fighting text in the rulebook. I thought i'd read a thread about this at BGG and consensus was that he did. I'm not sure about that though.

There doesnt seem to be an official ruling about Greking that I'm aware, but I was told to hand over my creature as his Overlord landed in the discard.

3 minutes ago, debiant said:

This is the opposite of our current local ruling because the wording on the card text is inconsistent with any of the Fight, fighting text in the rulebook. I thought i'd read a thread about this at BGG and consensus was that he did. I'm not sure about that though.

There doesnt seem to be an official ruling about Greking that I'm aware, but I was told to hand over my creature as his Overlord landed in the discard.

any creature with a constant effect (greking, francus) must survive the fight or their ability ends and will not trigger. This came up with Mugwump a while back

Quote

Does Mugwump need to survive the fight in order to resolve its ability?

Yes. If either creature in a fight has a constant ability referencing the end of the fight (example: “after an enemy creature is destroyed fighting this creature...”), the creature must survive the fight to resolve the ability.

Does Mugwump's ability work when it is attacked?

Yes. Unlike a " Fight: " ability, which only resolves when a creature attacks, constant abilities are always active and resolve whenever that creature is fighting, whether it is attacking or being attacked.

rules say

Quote

FIGHT

When a player uses a creature to fight, the player exhausts the creature and chooses an opponent’s creature. Both creatures deal an amount of damage equal to their power value to the opposing creature in the fight, and both are “fighting” for the purposes of card effects. A creature used to fight is said to be “attacking” and can be referred to as “the attacker” during that fight. If the attacker is not destroyed, all “Fight:” abilities on the attacking creature then resolve. If either creature in a fight has a constant ability referencing the end of the fight (example: “after an enemy creature is destroyed fighting this creature…”), the creature must survive the fight to resolve the ability . Only the attacker can trigger “Fight:” abilities.

That was my understanding of the rules. I will reference this next time I’m there. Thanks!

Hi

Cool, thanks, Greking seemed a little crazy otherwise.

Could we get a ''Ready'' description added to the glossary?

Biomatrix Backup: just remove the ''may''?

If a player chooses 4 chains do they start the game with 5 cards instead of 6?

cheers

20 minutes ago, player3686594 said:

If a player chooses 4 chains do they start the game with 5 cards instead of 6?

cheers

Yes, chains reduce starting hand size. "Each time (including during setup) a player with one or more chains would draw one or more cards to refill their hand, that player draws fewer cards (based on their current chain level, see below) and then sheds one chain by reducing their chain tracker by one." (page 8 pf the rulebook).

Cool I wish they made that more noticeable, that little phrase ''(even during setup)'' gets lost.