Post reported. That didn't add anything, it's just insulting people talking about the game.

12 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This is why these forums are trash for competitive analyses.

In just one page of responses, you've got people saying Poe is terrible, Poe is ridiculously powerful, that Poe should be flown nearly naked, or that Poe should be loaded with five or six upgrades, including torpedoes.

This basically sums up competitive analyses done by these forums. You know how to find out who good a list really is in the competitive game? Read the threads about tournament results. You know who never post opinions or analyses about ships/pilots/upgrades on these boards? The top players of the game. They either keep quiet or discuss the issues with their inner circle of playing partners or else hash stuff out on other groups, like the Mynock FB Group.



Asking these forums for an assessment of something's competitive worth in X-Wing is like asking the American Public about the latest techniques in genetically modified agriculture--85% of them don't even know that tomatoes naturally have DNA in them...

You go to any X-wing knowledge source (even the vaunted Mynock Facebook Group?) with the same mindset. Read for ideas, not advice. Don't beleive any of them until you can try it yourself and understand why it is or why it's not true.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Post reported. That didn't add anything, it's just insulting people talking about the game.

Mind you that it was a sort of self-sabotaging method of insulting people. "You are all numbskulls for talking in this forum! Thus I declare, speaking in this forum!"

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." "Isn't that an absolute?" "Piss off!"

21 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

You go to any X-wing knowledge source (even the vaunted Mynock Facebook Group?) with the same mindset. Read for ideas, not advice. Don't beleive any of them until you can try it yourself and understand why it is or why it's not true.

Bingo. Lots of people have lots of opinions on the competitive value of things in X-Wing. A small minority of those folks have any notable success in the competitive game. An even much smaller minority of those folks have any consistent and repeated success in the competitive game.

Basically none of those people in that very small minority spend their time posting musings about the game or shouting into the stubborn abyss that is the broader online community of X-Wing players, especially the FFG Forums .



Which is why I hate when I let myself get dragged into the discussions about the value of stuff in the game on these boards. Such an exercise in futility.

Me: "Guys, the (Rebel) YT-1300 is terrible in 2.0. Looking at the Top 16s from these past seventeen large tournaments we have data from, the Rebel Falcon is not on any of them.

Guy 1: "No, the Rebel Falcon is amazing, I haven't lost with it!"

Guy 2: "It's such a good deal, attacking in two arcs is soooo powerful!"

Guy 3: "It's good if you know how to fly it, just gotta git gud!"

ad naseum

30 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This is why these forums are trash for competitive analyses.

In just one page of responses, you've got people saying Poe is terrible, Poe is ridiculously powerful, that Poe should be flown nearly naked, or that Poe should be loaded with five or six upgrades, including torpedoes.

This basically sums up competitive analyses done by these forums. You know how to find out who good a list really is in the competitive game? Read the threads about tournament results. You know who never post opinions or analyses about ships/pilots/upgrades on these boards? The top players of the game. They either keep quiet or discuss the issues with their inner circle of playing partners or else hash stuff out on other groups, like the Mynock FB Group.

Asking these forums for an assessment of something's competitive worth in X-Wing is like asking the American Public about the latest techniques in genetically modified agriculture--85% of them don't even know that tomatoes naturally have DNA in them...

I completely disagree.

Their are plenty of top players that post in many threads in this forum that offer a lot of thoughtful analysis of gameplay, strategy and list building ideas. Those players even help List build, share experiences, and thoughts with semi-competitive players like myself. While the “secrets” within the lists are not always given (which as a player you should want to discover) many of those top players are more than willing to help the greater community because no matter if the analysis is right, the list is strong and you think it’s effective, you must still put it on the table. Fly better than your opponent and win. That is not always easy to do.

4 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

I completely disagree.

Their are plenty of top players that post in many threads in this forum that offer a lot of thoughtful analysis of gameplay, strategy and list building ideas.

Such as? Which specific players are you talking about?

When I think of the "best" players in X-Wing, I can come up with my own quick list of about a half-dozen names, for instance. None of them post with any smidge of regularity on these boards, and even when they do it's almost never about an analysis or speculation about the competitive value of future stuff. It's usually about tournament structure, regulations, TO/Stream etiquette, upcoming events, and the like.

53 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

T  his  is why these forums are trash for competitive analyses. 

The important part is that you managed to derail the thread. Maybe stop posting in this one so people can continue sharing opinions about Poe, and open a new one to discuss the merit of shared analysis on the forum.

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The important part is that you managed to derail the thread. Maybe stop posting in this one so people can continue sharing opinions about Poe, and open a new one to discuss the merit of shared analysis on the forum.

Good point.


I'll help get us back:


Poe is the best self-reliant ship at firing fully modded torpedoes in 2.0

6 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Poe is the best self-reliant ship at firing fully modded torpedoes in 2.0

BB-8 and the updated dial accentuate this strength: whereas most self-sufficient ships devote to either double-mods or getting the arc on, with BB-8, Poe can both reposition and get his double mods. Whether or not torps can fit into one's Poe list, it is something that has to at least be considered.

8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Poe is the best self-reliant ship at firing fully modded torpedoes in 2.0

It's astounding to me that this isn't more obvious to people. Or some people, I should say. I'm not trying to make a universal statement here.

If people thought Luke with protorps was bad, Poe is better in all the ways you could want him to be better. Luke gets to lock and turn two eyes to hits with the Force? Well, in the rare instance it would come up Poe can lock and take a focus to turn 3 or even 4 eyes into hits. Luke shoots at I5, I7 if you spend a die mod and take a 3 point upgrade or I6 if you run him with Swarm Tactics Wedge? Poe shoots at I6. Simple as. He also moves at I6, something Luke can't ever do.

Poe can boost while stressed. Poe can boost after a red. Luke gets to reposition before moving if he sacrifices a die mod? Poe can do that twice a game sacrificing nothing but points investment. And still get full dice mods.

Poe has a built in shield upgrade and space for more. Poe has a better dial. Poe can boost and barrel roll in a turn and still shoot a 3 dice primary with a re-roll by taking Predator.

Poe is Luke's dice mods with Wedge's initiative on a better chassis with no sacrifices. Now, I'm not saying you want to load him up with all those upgrades to do all those tricks. He's hella expensive and rightfully so.

But he's an I6 who can shoot 4 dice with full mods at range 3 with no defensive bonus die and all he as to do to make that happen in the space of a turn is take a stress while sitting on 7HP (Defender territory here chaps) behind 2 agility. And he can do that twice a game.

Poe is so good because he's so simple. Get mods, shoot torps, make them explode before they can even shoot you.

Torps and Trick Shot. Pretty sure that's all I'd run him with.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

This is why these forums are trash for competitive analyses.

Glad to have your input, @AllWingsStandyingBy . You're an asset to all of these, us, weak-minded muggles.

You have the floor, sir.

Please, continue.

Hello everyone, this is the original poster, and while there has been some great discussion going on here, I see that the typical salt of this forum has seeped in. Please try to keep it positive (and relevant)!

Thanks!

13 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

Poe  is so good because he's so simple  . 

The tricky part is which upgrade to choose, imo.

R4 for an open dial all game, or BB for amazing arc dodging twice?

Heroic as fail safe, or something else? Unlike many ships he can use several EPTs.

Then the tech, is primed thrusters glued or is no upgrade better?

Several choices to be made, and that's interesting.

edit: and I didn't even touch on hardpoint, title and mods!

7 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Glad to have your input, @AllWingsStandyingBy . You're an asset to all of these, us, weak-minded muggles.

You have the floor, sir.

Please, continue.

Harry peered around the hall, squinting ever so carefully. "Squinting", after all, was one of J.K. Rowlings expressions, for it was certainly versatile in doubling as both a verb and an adjective. At any rate, when he turned the corner, he felt his stomach melt into an aching pool, his heart sink to its depths. For standing before the spiraling staircase, stood Professor Severus @AllWingsStandyingBy, glaring at him menacingly and tight-lipped.

"Mr. Potter!" he sneered, baring his teeth. "What are you doing on this Forum?!"

"Professor!" pleaded Harry, at this point realising that it was already hopeless. This was, after all, AllWingsStandyingBy, he had the complete misfortune to be speaking with. "I was theory-crafting in the Common Room, along with the other students!"

"I see," growled AllWingsStandyingBy, his mouth now beginning to form a cruel smile. "And where is your Worlds Championship Series Invite?"

"I...I haven't got it yet ," stammered Harry defeatedly.

"50 points from the Mynocks for posting theorycrafting without an invite!" snapped the Professor. "And if I ever catch you doing it again, there will be detention!"

-Edit- I have forgotten to insert the words "Nimbus 2000" after every sentence. Not complaining, as that is part of the fun of reading.

-Edit edit- Covered in Weasles reacted to this post. Mr. Weaselyyyyyyy, there will be no snickering in this sithposting lesson. Five points from Mynock.

I think Poe’s in a good spot. He has old-school PTL, but he lost his prior ability of “Focus-Holding”. Even moreso is the fact that BB-8 is expensive for being a two-charge Advanced Sensors that only Boosts/Rolls, but doesn’t stop your action. He can get some impressive action economy in an action-starved v2, but it all comes down to a couple of key bits... 1) He lacks an Evade action (without Debris Gambit), and can’t focus more than once. 2) Has 2 agility, unlike comparable “super fighters”. And 3) Has a T-70’s dial. which is not a bad dial at all, but it’s is not that great at shedding stess. So in order to pull a 90-degree turn when starting off stressed, he’ll need to do a white maneuver, or a blue bank + boost (which could leave him perpetually stressed). This is improved with an R4, opening up his 2-turns, but let’s be real for a second... BB8 is going to be what you go with for the “Poe shenanigans” that made him fun to fly in the first place.

He’s good. Especially if you give him a Proton Torp and pull off a Focus+Lock turn. But I don’t think he’s game-breakingly good.

The cheapest Poe I would bring is 71 or 80pt, with or without protontorps, and heroic+r4.

Lonewolf is an alternative for defensive purposes, but I think he can benefit a lot from heroic.

R4 keeps the dial open because I'll double action basically every turn, as I did with PTL aces in 1.0.

But I have to say that a slam to get away after the first torp like a gunboat sounds deceptively good. The ferropaint depends on the meta but could be a good choice, and primed is a bit too expensive for my taste.

Finally, the actual loadout depends on the wingmen of course. Without much thought that is for me either a yt1300 or a bomber+awings.

Another thing to note about Poe with R4, is that he won’t be able to Barrel-Roll with open S-Foils. Granted if you’re on the ball with your bullseye arc and closed S-foils, that’s a moot point. But it’s still a notch towards BB-8 for me.

What ships should you fly with Poe?

4 minutes ago, JJH_BATMAN said:

What ships should you fly with Poe?

I know a guy who has a double-tapping Bob (3 die primary and then Agile Gunner a 2 die turret), Poe, and blocking A-wing list. It looks pretty decent for hyperspace. I've heard that some of the IBuyWargame members are dabbling in Rey+Poe with some success but think that the ships should be made leaner with an A-wing friend. I've tried Poe and 2 elite generics, but lost to a Null Double Silencer list I designed.

11 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

Another thing to note about Poe with R4, is that he won’t be able to Barrel-Roll with open S-Foils. Granted if you’re on the ball with your bullseye arc and closed S-foils, that’s a moot point. But it’s still a notch towards BB-8 for me.

I agree, but I am less concerned about it as long as I have torpedoes left. Maybe adding BB(-8) instead is an option if there is a reason not to take torpedoes. Which I'm not sure there is.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Poe is the best self-reliant ship at firing fully modded torpedoes in 2.0

Is this why you got all unnecessarily cranky? Because you think people should be taking torps on Poe and people weren't posting lists with torps on Poe? Cuz you could have just suggested that.

9 minutes ago, JJH_BATMAN said:

What ships should you fly with Poe?

Depends on what you want your list to do. I’ve made a few lists with Poe all of which I’m going to try before deciding on a favorite.

Rey/Poe full load outs to maximize positioning, damage and dice mods.

Rey/Tallie/Poe very thin builds on all, this list is dependent on flying and hoping your opponent doesn’t know which ship is the biggest threat.

Poe/Tallie/Cobalt Squadron Protorps Poe w/title and R4 is obviously the biggest threat in this list. Tallie is there for support and flanking responsibilities. Bomber has Trajectory Simulator w/Proton Bombs and Seismic Charges.

6 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Is this why you got all unnecessarily cranky? Because you think people should be taking torps on Poe and people weren't posting lists with torps on Poe? Cuz you could have just suggested that.

Not at all, that was just my good-faith effort to get the discussion back on track. What caused my post was the sheer amount of completely different and incompatible assessments of Poe being offered back-to-back in short a short amount of forum space. Usually you need about twice as many posts to see that level of "competitive X-Wing analysis by committee" arise.

I think Poe will be viable with and without torpedoes, just as we've seen Luke with and without torps doing reasonably well. Either way, I fully expect Proton Torpedo to get a substantial point increase come January, so it may be an entirely moot point.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Poe is the best self-reliant ship at firing fully modded torpedoes in 2.0

In Hyperspace format, absolutely.

In extended, Redline says hello before he fully mods a torpedo without stress and then bumps something. Now they are pretty close, don't get me wrong. For some situations and players Poe is probably better, but Redline is still currently around 20 points cheaper.

Im surprised theres not more talk about the title. An I6 slam is amazing. That price is too hot to pass up.

Consider this, you have poe on ur left and the rest of your squad on the right. Your opponet decides to go all in on poe. Poe does a 4 straight and sees that he is gonna recieve 3 range 1 shots. Decides to 4 slam away and take no shots. Now the rest of poes squad is flanking the opponent and gets some free shots.

Poe in that situation could also instead choose to slam with a k turn and take an ion and get a shot. Now poe is behind the enemy and his squadmates are flanking their side.

Or consider this. Its last turn of the game, 3 hull poe vs 3 hull whisper. Whispers ahead on points so she is running. Whisper makes a sneaky move and poes 3 straight doesnt line up a shot. Poe can then slam and take an ion to shoot whisper and win the game. That slam can be another 3 straight, or 3 bank or 3 turn, or 3 talon roll.

We have seen how powerful slam is on ships like miranda. But we have not seen how powerful slam is at top initiative. Im betting it is gonna be the bees knees. Even in games where poe has it equipped and doesnt use it, it will still be an asset because ur opponent will constantly be worrying about it and trying to plan for it.

I love the Last Jedi theme of this card. I love that its only a 1 time use. I love that u can take a punishing ion token to get a shot. I guarentee at the top tables next year, when the dust settles and the "best poe build" is declared, he will have the title. (Unless they bump up the price)