Hi,

just want to be sure, I understand these techniques correctly:

Is the reduction of physical resistance from Strinking as Water applied to the attack action using this technique itself aswell or does it only come into play after the action is resolved (and until the end of your next turn)? I'm not quite sure, how it's meant to work, but I think it is the former version (there's a little redundancy with the normal option to spend water opportunities in combat from page 328).

Regarding Deadly Sting , could you use this technique without actually applying poison to your weapon, thus using it to exchange the damage value of the weapon used for its deadliness value? This would make some sense when used with a shuriken or knife (especially two-handed). While I don't really think it is supposed to work without applying poison, it would make this technique a little bit less niche.^^

Opportunity are RESOLVED before the effect of the action take place... so yes, strike as water resistence reduction is appliced to the attack triggering it

For deadly sting... no, the action to activate it require the usage of a dose of poison so you can't activate the tecnique without using the poison ^^

As a side note, while not cleary stated like in the iaiutsu katas... I doubt you can use a 2 handed grip Knife to execute deadly sting... unless you'r able to poison the balde without the usage of hands (or have a third hand avaible :P) ^^', the weapon must be a readied one beofre the action is executed (and tehs grip have to be set) and you probably need a free hand to aplly the poison... ^^'

Totally agreed on the Striking as Water front. A clear upgrade vs the generic Water opportunity in that it can apply to two of your attacks (the one that triggered the opportunities and the one next turn) but also lets your allies benefit from it.

On the Deadly Sting, I am more on the fence... what difference would there be between applying no poison at all and, say, applying a “placebo” poison that does nothing? One interpretation could be that the damage dealt, equal to the Deadliness of the weapon, is due to the poison itself, but then why would it vary from weapon to weapon? And if the damage comes from the weapon’s “sting”, you could as well dab the blade in rose scented water and get the same effect... Now the interest of this technique is clearly to combine the poison application and the delivery in one single action (some poison take effect on a crit, and hurray, you can deal a relatively benign crit of severity 2 for a single opportunity). And an application of noxious poison can deliver some pretty hefty fatigue damage!

Agreed. You must have "a dose of poison" because the technique says so. But whilst you've clearly poisoned your target (because you've applied it and then inflicted a critical) the poison itself doesn't affect anything, and it doesn't mandate what poison.

If the GM were to allow you to substitute rose water as 'poison' it's basically just a slightly more naff version of an iaijutsu cut with the requirement for the weapon to be drawn but also the option to inflict a critical (albeit a really feeble one)

4 hours ago, Franwax said:

Totally agreed on the Striking as Water front. A clear upgrade vs the generic Water opportunity in that it can apply to two of your attacks (the one that triggered the opportunities and the one next turn) but also lets your allies benefit from it.

On the Deadly Sting, I am more on the fence... what difference would there be between applying no poison at all and, say, applying a “placebo” poison that does nothing? One interpretation could be that the damage dealt, equal to the Deadliness of the weapon, is due to the poison itself, but then why would it vary from weapon to weapon? And if the damage comes from the weapon’s “sting”, you could as well dab the blade in rose scented water and get the same effect... Now the interest of this technique is clearly to combine the poison application and the delivery in one single action (some poison take effect on a crit, and hurray, you can deal a relatively benign crit of severity 2 for a single opportunity). And an application of noxious poison can deliver some pretty hefty fatigue damage!

a fake poison is still a poison and realistically speaking... there is plenty of substances that could be considered poisonous/toxix in nature (especially if ingected directly into the bloodstream) and easy to find and refine (it is refining poisons/toxic substances into quick acting that is the hard thing ^^')... as for their efficency and more than anything else the "time required for the effect to kick in"... that is a different matter and is where a real "refined poison" come into play...

So... if you'r fine with a weaker poison that may actualy take effect after several round or even an hour or two... than you will only need the gm consensus and an appropriate survival check to get enough doses of poison to spam you Deadly sting as much as you want without consuming the prcious "real poison" ^^

obviously since this is not a rule from the core the GM approval is essential ^^

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

it's   basically just a slightly more naff version of an iaijutsu cut with the requirement for  the weapon to be drawn but also the option  t  o infl  i  ct a critical (albeit a really feeble one)

Which is not crazy for a rank 2 secret technique Also only works on concealable weapons, while taking away their main advantage since it has to be readied to take effect (usually you can ready a concealable weapon as part of the attack action, but not here).

1 hour ago, In the middle of the night said:

there is plenty of substances that could be considered poisonous/toxix in nature

Starting with various readily available bodily fluids !! This could change the name of the technique into “Deadly Stink”...

On 12/11/2018 at 12:28 PM, In the middle of the night said:

a fake poison is still a poison [...]

The work "fake" states that it is, in fact not poison. If it was poison, it wouldn't have been fake...

35 minutes ago, Hansisaf said:

The work "fake" states that it is, in fact not poison. If it was poison, it wouldn't have been fake...

Indeed. Unless you have a good reason, it generally needs to be something from the poisons section of the equipment list.

;For the right target, some peanut dust is poison. The whole technique is a bit weird, with the damage part being dependent on the weapon. As written it needs an actual dose of poison though.

Thanks for all the replies!

I do agree that it probably only works if you apply actual poison, just wanted to be sure. What I find a bit weird about that is that you need to invest some ressources to make use of this technique - I mean, poisons don't seem to cost much, but you still need to find and buy them, which isn't that easy with a rarity of 5 and the Forbidden quality (and that's just "standard poison"), since I guess you shouldn't try to requisiton them from your Lord (unless you are a Shosuro maybe). 😀

Actually, 30 zeni for a dose it a significant sum of money. It’s basically 0.6 Koku and even if 1200 years of inflation made it so that one Koku is not enough to feed a man for a year anymore, it’s still more than a peasant will ever hold at any given time. And since one dose is only good for one attack, the bill can be steep.

The best way to procure more of those substances is probably to DIY... Survival to harvest it from plants or animals and medicine to concoct and refine it. So you’ve got your downtime activities cut out for you !

Now, uric acid is actually pretty toxic if introduced in the bloodstream, and it’s very easy to “harvest” ! Might not do much effect when applied to a blade, but hey, if it can let you use the technique it’s a win