33 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. "I'll stamp a receipt with my personal chop and you send it to my lord to pay" is hardly a viable option when the thing in question is not something you want them (or a putative future magistrate reading the records) to know about, because it's either illegal, embarrassing or both.

Or, depending on the clan and the purpose of the money, it might be likely that the lord in question not only knows about it but is also the one having given the order for the transaction - but he'll still definitely won't want the source of the funds to be traceable back to him.

getting back to dueling monks.. isn't there supposed to be some kind of etiquette related to what weapons a person carries? For example, a person carrying a Katana is expected to duel themselves, but a person carrying only a wakizashi is expected to use a stand-in? Since Togashi monks don't carry even a Wakizashi, I believe they can't even be challenged to an official "duel".. although certainly a wrestling contest or a straight up brawl would be workable. As others have noted, the monk is more likely to be an advisor than a Yojimbo. If the monk is with the courtier, it makes perfect sense (to me) that the clan would send someone betrothed to a Shugenja to give some last minute tips on how to deal with the priest. On the other hand, if the Monk is travelling with the Shugenja, perhaps they were assigned to advise the Shugenja in more worldly matters, or perhaps the monk is the caretaker of some talisman that was loaned to the Shugenja to bring them luck on their wedding day.

I also want to make sure that it's clear that Yojimbo are not stand-in duelists. I mean they can be, but that's not actually what they exist for. A samurai can ask any samurai to be a stand-in and the Yojimbo probably has good reasons to accept the task.. but they might also have good reasons not to (whose guarding their charge while the Yojimbo is dueling?). Furthermore, why would Doji Chu want her Bodyguard, Daidoji Yuki to fight for her, when the duelist Kakita Akane is standing not five feet away?

4 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Also, some trades involve other samurai (I'm thinking artisans, smiths, kobune captains, etc.) and others almost require a cash exchange (illegal ones like bribing officials or purchasing forgeries, but also stakes in gambling houses, "hand gift" practices and likely any pre-arranged sales of bulk goods). It's not all innkeepers and street vendors.

I'm now also thinking of travelling peddlers having to go through this song and dance routine to make a living.

In my mind, whether you imagine a very complete and complex money system, or a IOUs system, or a "gift" system in the BACKGROUND is unimportant and irrelevant, and I don't see why people would even discuss it...

The lore and rulebook state that samurai find actual money non-interesting at best, dirty at worst. From PCs and GMs point of view, there is very little incentive to even care about money at all. Nothing purchasable is too expensive, since you're part of the ruling class to begin with. The only important factor is accessibility, which is why, during character creation, they usually tell you "select an item of rarity X or less" instead of talking about money, and you should have almost everything you need right off the start. There's no magic items to save money for, while commerce, bureaucracy, taxes, etc. are handled in the background. If you ever get an estate as a PC, you'll have plenty of staff taking care of this stuff. While the people in charge of taxes and accounting might discuss with you regularly to keep things rolling, it shouldn't have to even get mentioned, no more than the cooks discussing the menu (unless you're in the unlikely event that it's part of the story, and even then, it will likely be about which supplies are low and inaccessible, then finding a way to get those before winter, rather than sums of money).

As you travel out of local lands, you are either an invited guest, in which case you can assume local lords will provide everything for you in the background, or you've been sanctioned by your own lord, who will have provided you with a sum sufficient to cover any basic needs as well as a little extra, which can still stay in the background. Going on a pilgrimage, a humble samurai might go "couch surfing" from shrine to shrine, or offer farmers news and a fireside tale in exchange for a meal and roof. Unless you go into uncivilized lands, no samurai is going to suffer from lack of food or lack of a roof to sleep under. And in uncivilized lands, your survival training is much more likely to help you than any amount of koku...

Finally, the rationales for "adventuring" for samurai don't include money or any other form of accumulation of wealth. You want to expand your knowledge, capabilities and wisdom, work on yourself, do good by bushido standards, take care of tasks given by your lord, protect Rokugan and its people. Rewards are represented by XP and curriculums, honor, glory, status and titles. There won't be "loot" to divide at the end of the dungeon...

10 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

That's another issue with samurai away from home - once you get a fair distance from home, the cost of actually recovering the money could be more than the debt is worth.

I realise the idea of a peasant trudging all the way up to the High House Of Light with a bill for a couple of cups of sake from Friendly Traveller Village is deliberately ridiculous, but it's clearly not going to happen, hence not bringing the money with you but still demanding the sake is (essentially) robbing the innkeeper.

The peasant doesn't travel — he hands the ledger to his lord, and the lord reduces his tax-in-coin, and then himself requests reimbursement, per the letter of travel (which probably sets a hard limit, and would need to be presented anyway)...

The real modern world also has a lot of this. Checks and Purchase Orders. Especially Government PO's.

And, having had military orders with accompanying Purchase Order (actually, 4 POs)... there was the PO itself, with my name, rank, serial, and assigned payment authority, how much was authorized and for how much. My orders were annotated for each PO used - and handed over when I arrived at my destination. PO #1 was for the hotel and breakfast. #2 for lunch, #3 for dinner, and #4 for "emergency housing - call before use." #4 was used for food since my luggage didn't follow me on the same flight. The merchant called and got approval from MEPS Anchorage. I spent 5 hours waiting for my luggage, and had to eat. The merchant was told that if I was there more than 6 hours, he was to add my next meal to the PO. (I had over 12 hours of travel, with multiple changes of plane and layovers.)

The system in Rokugan likely works similar - the merchant writes the debt on the travel orders, and his business and chop, the samurai gives his name and chop on the merchant's ledger, and if there's a dispute, it's resolved by demand of the travel papers. I would expect the border guards to make note of how much was spent and get the samurai to stamp a summary; if the samurai disputes the charge, he's going to have to show his orders don't have a bank space and don't have a charge that matches.

1 hour ago, Agasha Kanetake said:

In my mind, whether you imagine a very complete and complex money system, or a IOUs system, or a "gift" system in the BACKGROUND is unimportant and irrelevant, and I don't see why people would even discuss it...

The interesting bit is not where the money comes from, nor is it the basic day-to-day expenses. The interesting bit is when characters actually should do a little song and dance about financial transactions: bribery (both the PCs attempting to bribe NPCs and vice versa), "hand gifts" as part of commerce (City of Lies dedicates a couple paragraphs to this, making it pretty much equal to gift giving in terms of roleplay), the occasional (not common!) "you guys have been a bit too easy-going with throwing money at problems, time to open up a new line of credit" situation, possibly a module that revolves around massive debt (I recall a HoR module about helping a noble with gambling debts out from under the yakuza's thumb), and so on. This shouldn't come up every session, but they are good opportunities for roleplay.

Well, and some of that will depend on the PCs. You take "Whispers of Poverty" all that credit **** is a lot harder. But if you're famously wealthy, you might breeze through a lot of stuff on just "You may have heard of me, Daidoji Koin, my dad is in the inner circle of the Daidoji Trading Council, my family could buy this entire town, can you spare me some rice you know we're good for it".

2 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

The peasant doesn't travel — he hands the ledger to his lord, and the lord reduces his tax-in-coin, and then himself requests reimbursement, per the letter of travel (which probably sets a hard limit, and would need to be presented anyway)...

The real modern world also has a lot of this. Checks and Purchase Orders. Especially Government PO's.

And, having had military orders with accompanying Purchase Order (actually, 4 POs)... there was the PO itself, with my name, rank, serial, and assigned payment authority, how much was authorized and for how much. My orders were annotated for each PO used - and handed over when I arrived at my destination. PO #1 was for the hotel and breakfast. #2 for lunch, #3 for dinner, and #4 for "emergency housing - call before use." #4 was used for food since my luggage didn't follow me on the same flight. The merchant called and got approval from MEPS Anchorage. I spent 5 hours waiting for my luggage, and had to eat. The merchant was told that if I was there more than 6 hours, he was to add my next meal to the PO. (I had over 12 hours of travel, with multiple changes of plane and layovers.)

The system in Rokugan likely works similar - the merchant writes the debt on the travel orders, and his business and chop, the samurai gives his name and chop on the merchant's ledger, and if there's a dispute, it's resolved by demand of the travel papers. I would expect the border guards to make note of how much was spent and get the samurai to stamp a summary; if the samurai disputes the charge, he's going to have to show his orders don't have a bank space and don't have a charge that matches.

This makes perfect sense.

2 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

The interesting bit is not where the money comes from, nor is it the basic day-to-day expenses. The interesting bit is when characters actually should do a little song and dance about financial transactions: bribery (both the PCs attempting to bribe NPCs and vice versa), "hand gifts" as part of commerce (City of Lies dedicates a couple paragraphs to this, making it pretty much equal to gift giving in terms of roleplay), the occasional (not common!) "you guys have been a bit too easy-going with throwing money at problems, time to open up a new line of credit" situation, possibly a module that revolves around massive debt (I recall a HoR module about helping a noble with gambling debts out from under the yakuza's thumb), and so on. This shouldn't come up every session, but they are good opportunities for roleplay.

City of Lies also suggests giving the Magistrate group an annual stipend of 500Koku for 'magisterial expenses', then gives a list of things to spend it on, many of which are on that big charter. Yes, you can requisition a squad of armed men for a raid, but you need to reimburse their lord for their time etc, and this is how much it would normally cost.

6 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

The system in Rokugan likely works similar - the merchant writes the debt on the travel orders, and his business and chop, the samurai gives his name and chop on the merchant's ledger, and if there's a dispute, it's resolved by demand of the travel papers. I would expect the border guards to make note of how much was spent and get the samurai to stamp a summary; if the samurai disputes the charge, he's going to have to show his orders don't have a bank space and don't have a charge that matches.

It really seems very counterintuitive to me that a ruling class that supposedly finds commerce distasteful would set up an elaborate system where they are creating paperwork left and right that accomplishes very little other than remind everyone they're all involved in commerce all the time. What is everyone (or even just anyone that matters) gaining from this? I mean, this is super useful for tax collectors - but what is the samurai caste getting out of it? And how far does this go? Does every small village inn have their own chop? I don't see chasing down the tab for a couple of skewers from a street vendor being worth anyone's time and inconvenience, so which businesses would routinely apply this system? How do samurai staying outside their own province for extended periods of time fit into this? And how is all this waiting for credit to be resolved even workable?

3 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

City of Lies also suggests giving the Magistrate group an annual stipend of 500Koku for 'magisterial expenses', then gives a list of things to spend it on, many of which are on that big charter. Yes, you can requisition a squad of armed men for a raid, but you need to reimburse their lord for their time etc, and this is how much it would normally cost.

Yup. Prices only apply in Ryoko Owari at that time though - they don't really infer anything about the cost of similar transactions elsewhere. This was mostly included to allow the PCs to "go native" if they wanted to anyway: buying up a sizeable amount of the opium production in order to sell it on for profit is not something likely to be relevant for many other modules.

8 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Yup. Prices only apply in Ryoko Owari at that time though - they don't really infer anything about the cost of similar transactions elsewhere. This was mostly included to allow the PCs to "go native" if they wanted to anyway: buying up a sizeable amount of the opium production in order to sell it on for profit is not something likely to be relevant for many other modules.

I'd be relatively happy using the numbers for hiring mooks, befriending organised crime and holding parties. I'd probably also be happy with using the various bribe values as a starting point, although most samurai would be doing something in kind rather than literally handing over cash -

"I hear your son is getting married, Doji-san, please accept this gift to help him set up his new home."
 - two refusals later -
"Thank you.  It's funny you should have visited today, because I have just remembered about that night you were asking about.  I did see somebody."

Amusingly, the first thing that one of the PCs did with that money once was to commission a katana from that impressive Crab smith that lives in the city 😀

10 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I'd be relatively happy using the numbers for hiring mooks, befriending organised crime and holding parties. I'd probably also be happy with using the various bribe values as a starting point, although most samurai would be doing something in kind rather than literally handing over cash -

"I hear your son is getting married, Doji-san, please accept this gift to help him set up his new home."
 - two refusals later -
"Thank you.  It's funny you should have visited today, because I have just remembered about that night you were asking about.  I did see somebody."

Amusingly, the first thing that one of the PCs did with that money once was to commission a katana from that impressive Crab smith that lives in the city 😀

Starting points are good, and it's nice to be able to use actual numbers while roleplaying a negotiation. In the end though for me the only real decision is whether the PCs can readily afford something or if they will need to work something out - a favour, going back to their lord to convince him it's money well spent, raising the funds through whatever means they see fit.

City of Lies was fun to play through, but the consistent focus on corruption (and, not to put too fine a point on it, consistent pressure on the PCs to be corrupt themselves) is fairly uncommon in L5R modules. Most of the services listed are thinly veiled protection rackets and drug running schemes. 😛

Thanks guys, this is all useful information, even if some things don't seem to be so clear 😀

Interesting discussion about the "money-problem"! Actually I've got another question related to samurai and money: Someday maybe the koku the characters got from the start are all spend and since there's no loot and no quest reward in the classical sense, how do characters obtain new money? Would be nice to hear how you handle this! Do characters in your campaigns really don't need any money or do they get some from their lord from time to time/if they run low or what are the options here?^^

16 minutes ago, Stollentroll17 said:

Thanks guys, this is all useful information, even if some things don't seem to be so clear 😀

Interesting discussion about the "money-problem"! Actually I've got another question related to samurai and money: Someday maybe the koku the characters got from the start are all spend and since there's no loot and no quest reward in the classical sense, how do characters obtain new money? Would be nice to hear how you handle this! Do characters in your campaigns really don't need any money or do they get some from their lord from time to time/if they run low or what are the options here?^^

I recall seeing somewhere (probably a past source) that the “starting Koku” were actually a yearly stipend from their lord (as in “I don’t want to micro manage you so just take that and go do your duty) or other regular sources (family, estates, etc), simplified in one lump sum amount. I suppose it can work, but can also become pretty much irrelevant depending on your campaign.

2 minutes ago, Stollentroll17 said:

Thanks guys, this is all useful information, even if some things don't seem to be so clear 😀

Interesting discussion about the "money-problem"! Actually I've got another question related to samurai and money: Someday maybe the koku the characters got from the start are all spend and since there's no loot and no quest reward in the classical sense, how do characters obtain new money? Would be nice to hear how you handle this! Do characters in your campaigns really don't need any money or do they get some from their lord from time to time/if they run low or what are the options here?^^

When we started this discussion I actually went to check the income rules, and unless I missed some sidebar there are none.

In previous edition when this issue came up (and both 1st and 2nd Edition also lacked income rules) most players setled in one of the following options:

a) The starting money is their annual stipend.

b) Stipend is equal to Status rank

c) Stipend is equal to Status x Starting money.

I personally prefer income to be in some way based on status so that increases as the players climb up the feudal ladder.

Mind you, however that at some point the players should probably be rewarded with lands of their own which should produce their own income. So far there are no rules for it, previosly it was handled either trough the Gentry advantage or through the Way of the Daimyo management system. You can probably wing it, but it should provide income significantly above that of the other options I described.

Knowing FFG, there will eventually be a lovely sub-system to manage your own estate and stuff (much like you can run a homestead or business in Edge of the Empire). Eventually.

1 hour ago, Stollentroll17 said:

Interesting discussion about the "money-problem"! Actually I've got another question related to samurai and money: Someday maybe the koku the characters got from the start are all spend and since there's no loot and no quest reward in the classical sense, how do characters obtain new money? Would be nice to hear how you handle this! Do characters in your campaigns really don't need any money or do they get some from their lord from time to time/if they run low or what are the options here?^^

Retainers are provided for by their lords, through a regular stipend and possibly rewards for exceptional service (discretionary cash the samurai can use as he sees fit) and by providing them with whatever material needs they have (either as a gift or as a loan) - food, lodging, armor, a horse, clothing, etc.

I keep it really simple, basically not tracking anything too closely: unless for game-related reasons or because it wouldn't make sense, the PCs have the funds they need for all their regular expenses and for anything their lord might expect them to need to perform their duties. I only tell them they can't have something if that's meaningful for the story. Otherwise, the money doesn't run out. Of course, that might differ very much from one character to the next - a ronin or ascetic monk is going to have to live within their very limited means, while a Doji or Bayushi courtier will have enough cash and credit to buy the best of everything in order to be able to strike a good impression.

17 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

When we started this discussion I actually went to check the income rules, and unless I missed some sidebar there are none.

In previous edition when this issue came up (and both 1st and 2nd Edition also lacked income rules) most players setled in one of the following options:

a) The starting money is their annual stipend.

b) Stipend is equal to Status rank

c) Stipend is equal to Status x Starting money.

I personally prefer income to be in some way based on status so that increases as the players climb up the feudal ladder.

Mind you, however that at some point the players should probably be rewarded with lands of their own which should produce their own income. So far there are no rules for it, previosly it was handled either trough the Gentry advantage or through the Way of the Daimyo management system. You can probably wing it, but it should provide income significantly above that of the other options I described.

I think option 3 is good.

So for example a Mirumoto Bushi would get 150 Koku yearly and a Doji would get 240 Koku

On 12/13/2018 at 5:32 PM, nameless ronin said:

It really seems very counterintuitive to me that a ruling class that supposedly finds commerce distasteful would set up an elaborate system where they are creating paperwork left and right that accomplishes very little other than remind everyone they're all involved in commerce all the time. What is everyone (or even just anyone that matters) gaining from this? I mean, this is super useful for tax collectors - but what is the samurai caste getting out of it? And how far does this go? Does every small village inn have their own chop? I don't see chasing down the tab for a couple of skewers from a street vendor being worth anyone's time and inconvenience, so which businesses would routinely apply this system? How do samurai staying outside their own province for extended periods of time fit into this? And how is all this waiting for credit to be resolved even workable?

You need to read some actual Japanese history - the nobility were all about the land; merchants were the second lowest class in the religious categorization. The second wealthiest class, the merchant class, was considered little better than the mobsters that preyed upon them. The disdain for money is not at odds at all - Samurai weren't the landholders. Different social class. Ok, one promoted from the samurai... but still, socially, religiously, and morally, a different class.

You seem to be trying to impose modernist views upon a culture that was about as alien to modern western civilization as any gets.

The samurai were a head-taking cult, focused upon the code of bushido as a staunchly held religion, in a society where religious syncretism merged 3+ religions into a mixture of Shinto, Taoism, Buddhism, and a dozen or more local cults (most being varying degrees of animism, not unlike shinto), and the code of Bushido...

Also, do not forget the right of a samurai to kill any peasant who offended him. This goes a long way towards a cashless existence. Either ask his lord to cut you some slack, or just write off the samurai's demands... That was a very real, very historic, right. One that had to be meted out by not pissing off the Lord, who could order your suicide (and would appoint a second who would ensure you died at the first sign of hesitation).

4 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

cashless existence

Your mileage my vary, but to me this doesn't seem to be about going around without using cash money. I know that the setting fluff says there are ultratraditionalist samurai who disdain the handling of coin, but the general issue is that samurai see trade as crass. That's the crux of the argument for me. And that has nothing to do with taking a modernist view on the setting. If trade is crass and something to avoid being associated with, why set up a system that formalizes trade? I mean, you are the one who brought up the comparison to modern day military purchase orders - modern day military logistics and procurement are the epitome of bureaucratic bean counting, the nirvana of accountants with OCD. Why would Rokugan do anything similar to that? I don't have an issue with the notion that samurai would often deal with their expenses without using cash, I have an issue with the concept of samurai writing IOUs left and right while not in their own lord's provinces and that this would be the expected practice backed by using travel papers to track their commercial dealings or innkeepers collecting receipts to be traded in either for tax cuts or for actual money. It doesn't seempractical to do this and it doesn't seem to fit the setting.

I still think some of it comes down to "what is commerce". Because arguably a lot of stuff samurai do involves exchanging goods of values. You pay your peasant levy and your samurai. But that's not a "commerce", to the samurai even though we understand that to be good exchanged for services. The lord paying this wage might think of it more as rewarding someone for doing their duty, even though it cost them. They have to expend energy to serve, thus they must be supplied with the rice to feed them (or the coinage which represents rice - theoretically) so they can serve. And then pragmatism enters, when dealing with peasants you might need to "reward" them first to incentivise them to do what they're supposed to do. But for a samurai you should never need to be incentivised with physical repayment, duty and loyalty is all you need to do something - yet you still need to eat otherwise you're useless. Failure to support those who serve you and reward them for a job well done can be a stain on your Honor and reputation.

58 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

I still think some of it comes down to "what is commerce". Because arguably a lot of stuff samurai do involves exchanging goods of values. You pay your peasant levy and your samurai. But that's not a "commerce", to the samurai even though we understand that to be good exchanged for services. The lord paying this wage might think of it more as rewarding someone for doing their duty, even though it cost them. They have to expend energy to serve, thus they must be supplied with the rice to feed them (or the coinage which represents rice - theoretically) so they can serve. And then pragmatism enters, when dealing with peasants you might need to "reward" them first to incentivise them to do what they're supposed to do. But for a samurai you should never need to be incentivised with physical repayment, duty and loyalty is all you need to do something - yet you still need to eat otherwise you're useless. Failure to support those who serve you and reward them for a job well done can be a stain on your Honor and reputation.

A lot of it comes down to "what is commerce" because samurai will pretend that what is essentially a money-for-goods-or-services transaction is nothing of the sort. A samurai doesn't go and buy a kimono, he gets a kimono from a merchant and gives the merchant some money because the merchant's been helpful in finding a gift for his bethrothed - there's no connection between the kimono and the money. When a samurai slips the ferryman who got him across the river with his clothes dry a couple of zeni it's not to pay him for services rendered, it's because he's clearly a good servant for the local daimyo and that deserves a reward - no connection between the money and that particular crossing of the river. My question is, why formalize these polite and pleasant exchanges with IOU notes or stamps on travel papers? If a merchant feels aggrieved when a samurai gave him only a little bit of money and complains about this to a local magistrate that magistrate isn't going to be so crass as to accuse the samurai of shortchanging the merchant - he's going to suggest the samurai showed a lack of courtesy. And he'll take that up with the samurai in question first, not immediately kick it upstairs and snitch to the samurai's lord so that this lord can make amends with a suitable gift of koku to smoothe everything over.

On 12/15/2018 at 4:12 AM, Suzume Chikahisa said:

When we started this discussion I actually went to check the income rules, and unless I missed some sidebar there are none.

In previous edition when this issue came up (and both 1st and 2nd Edition also lacked income rules) most players setled in one of the following options:

a) The starting money is their annual stipend.

b) Stipend is equal to Status rank

c) Stipend is equal to Status x Starting money.

I personally prefer income to be in some way based on status so that increases as the players climb up the feudal ladder.

Mind you, however that at some point the players should probably be rewarded with lands of their own which should produce their own income. So far there are no rules for it, previosly it was handled either trough the Gentry advantage or through the Way of the Daimyo management system. You can probably wing it, but it should provide income significantly above that of the other options I described.

Good ideas, I like b) because it's "fair", but of course a) and c) do actually make some more sense for the setting (since there must be a reason why samurai start with different amounts of money depending on their family although they all got the same staus rank). I'm going to watch the expenses of my players' characters and if they really run low on money, I'm gonna decide what to do, maybe there will no need to give them more money ever 😀

7 minutes ago, Stollentroll17 said:

there   must be a reason why samurai start with different amounts of money depending on th   e  ir fa  mily although they all got the same staus rank

Indeed ! You will notice that the various starting amounts reflect the general respective wealth of each clan (closely tied to rice production, but also access to rare goods and, yes, trade routes), and within each clan, the proclivities of each family (with merchant families like the Ide and Yasuki being loaded AF).

Historically, the Crane has had the best lands, although the tsunami in the recent fictions may threaten that. The Unicorn have access to trade routes to outside the Empire, and the Scorpion somehow managed to swing exclusive rights to the production of medicinal opium (and have various other advantages, like one of the most active cities in the Empire, commercially speaking). So these clans do have money. Dragon, in contrast are much poorer, as their mountain lands are less bountiful and, let's face it, most of them don’t really care 😛

I am just surprised that the Daidoji don’t get top spot within the Crane clan, as they are the de facto tradespeople of the Crane (the Daidoji trading council is famed and feared by its competitors).

20 minutes ago, Franwax said:

I am just surprised that the Daidoji don’t get top spot within the Crane clan, as they are the de facto tradespeople of the Crane (the Daidoji trading council is famed and feared by its competitors).

I think part of what determines starting wealth is also what the average starting samurai is expected to need. With few exceptions, within a clan typically courtier families provide a larger stipend than bushi families, who are still more generous than shugenja families. Monk families are, fittingly, making theirs do with the smallest disposable income. The Hiruma are an obvious example, having lost much of their lands (and thus income) to the Shadowlands.

Courtiers are expected to travel more and to spend money on building their network - they need a lot of discretionary money. Shugenja and monks are expected to stay at a temple and have their needs seen to by that temple, with monks also expected to be somewhat ascetic in their lifestyle. Bushi fall somewhere in between (most of their needs are taken care of for them as well, but every military organisation ever knows very well the importance of letting soldiers blow off steam every now and then). Bushi families also typically need a lot more money to provide for their retainers' upkeep, because of sheer numbers alone - the Daidoji as an organisation have massive day-to-day expenses compared to the other Crane families.