When does Library Access hit the discard pile?

Per the rule book it states:

ACTION CARDS When an action card is played, the active player resolves the card’s “Play:” ability and, after resolving as much of the ability as possible, places the card in their discard pile.

From my read of this then Library access is either discarded at the end of the turn OR discarded once you have stopped using its effects. Once it goes to the graveyard it is no longer in effect. Either way the graveyard recursion shenangins people talk about shouldnt be occurring with this card.

Can we get an official ruling on this?

I guess the key word we need a definition for here is Resolve. Do things resolve mean to acknowledge that the effect is activated and then it remains in effect until card states otherwise or does it mean seeing every consequence of that effect through to the end?

it is discarded as soon as you play it. an example can be found in the ruling on interaction between wild wormhole and Library access. in effect a "lingering effect" is created by library access that remains during the turn. there are a number of cards that cause these "lingering effects" which can be identified by their text mentioning something lasting until the end of the turn, or "next turn"

Quote

I have chosen house Logos to be my active house this turn and start off by playing Library Access (CoTA 115), I then play Wild Wormhole (CoTA 125). In what order do I resolve this combination of effects?

When you play a Wild Wormhole after playing a Library Access the following happens in this order:
1. You gain 1 Æmber from Wild Wormhole’s Æmber bonus.
2. You draw a card from Library Access’s effect.
3. You resolve Wild Wormhole’s effect and play the top card of your deck.
4. You gain Æmber from any Æmber bonus on the played card. 5. You draw a card from Library Access’s effect.
6. You resolve any play effects on the card played from the top of your deck.

It's discarded immediately, creating a lasting effect. The card specifies how long the effect lasts.

Point 1: While resolving library access it doesn't give you permission to play cards anywhere, and the rules don't give you permission to play other cards in the middle of an effect resolving. So the resolution must have been completed once you are taking the rest of your turn.

Point 2: There's nowhere specified for a card like foggify to hang out during your opponents turn where they would not be able to interact with it (say by using mimicry to copy it). Foggify resolves, is discarded, and the effect lasts for your opponents turn.

The example shown does not prove that it is discarded as soon as played.

1 hour ago, saluk64007 said:

It's discarded immediately, creating a lasting effect. The card specifies how long the effect lasts.

Point 1: While resolving library access it doesn't give you permission to play cards anywhere, and the rules don't give you permission to play other cards in the middle of an effect resolving. So the resolution must have been completed once you are taking the rest of your turn.

Point 2: There's nowhere specified for a card like foggify to hang out during your opponents turn where they would not be able to interact with it (say by using mimicry to copy it). Foggify resolves, is discarded, and the effect lasts for your opponents turn.

Point 1: No where in the rules does it state that you can't play other cards while a card is in the middle of resolving.

Point 2: This also is an assumption as there is no definition for Resolve. However, for Foggify this is likely where the part " as much of the ability as possible" would come into play and is discarded at the end of your turn and you being the active player.

1 hour ago, lostpike said:

The example shown does not prove that it is discarded as soon as played.

Point 1: No where in the rules does it state that you can't play other cards while a card is in the middle of resolving.

Point 2: This also is an assumption as there is no definition for Resolve. However, for Foggify this is likely where the part " as much of the ability as possible" would come into play and is discarded at the end of your turn and you being the active player.

1. So you can play cards in between the "ready" and the "fight" of a ready and fight? No. Here's the rule for playing an action card:

"When an action card is played, the active player resolves the card’s “Play:” ability and, after resolving as much of the ability as possible, places the card in their discard pile."

You can't do any old random thing in the middle of that action. The rules also don't say you can't reach across the table and take the opponents creatures and stack them in a pile on the side of the board.

2. Now you are just making things up to support your own assumptions. If you are discarding it at the end of your turn - because that's as much of the ability as you can do - then it won't be in effect on your opponents turn! Or are you saying you can discard it at the end of your turn, and it creates an effect that lasts during your opponents turn while it's already in the discard pile? Kind of like how library access creates an effect that lasts during your turn and is then discarded? Which is it?

I think you really want it to work one way and are trying to support your idea. I really don't want library access to be able to be played more than once on a turn - but them's the breaks. This is how the game is at least meant to be played.

1. But you have nothing to support your argument either for this. This is just what you are hoping it is. Nothing states that other abilities can't happen while this ability is resolving.

This isn't the breaks. This is something that clearly isn't properly defined in the game. There are strong arguments both ways and until they make a ruling this is going to cause issues for tournaments.

2 hours ago, lostpike said:

1. But you have nothing to support your argument either for this. This is just what you are hoping it is. Nothing states that other abilities can't happen while this ability is resolving.

This isn't the breaks. This is something that clearly isn't properly defined in the game. There are strong arguments both ways and until they make a ruling this is going to cause issues for tournaments.

You are right that the rules definitely leave a lot to be desired. However, there is a group of us here, and I don't know where you fit into this group, that have been, to put it mildly, obsessed with the game since it was first announced in August. We've not only been discussing and disecting the rules amongst ourselves, but we've also been scouring everywhere for any bits of news or information on the game. Over the past four months or so we've watched several videos of the designer and lead developer actually play the game as well as read all kinds of posts from them, be it on Facebook, Discord, Twitter, BGG or in some cases private messages. From these various sources we've put together a pretty good, albeit imperfect, understanding of the rules.

What's my point? Simply that until they specify otherwise, and given past rulings I wouldn't dare guess what's coming next, but given what we understand of the rules as clarified up to this point, the other two posters in this thread so far are correct and you are incorrect on when a card is discarded. Take all of that as you will.

3 hours ago, lostpike said:

1. But you have nothing to support your argument either for this. This is just what you are hoping it is. Nothing states that other abilities can't happen while this ability is resolving.

This isn't the breaks. This is something that clearly isn't properly defined in the game. There are strong arguments both ways and until they make a ruling this is going to cause issues for tournaments.

I don't want library access to proc twice! I'm in the camp that thinks library access (and it's associated super combos) is the worst thing about the game right now.

You wont take my word for it, it's not in the official faq yet, and there isnt a unified place collecting evidence, so feel free to play how you like till a more official confirmation can be easily linked to. Maybe when they add it to the faq they can errata the card too

11 hours ago, dperello said:

You are right that the rules definitely leave a lot to be desired. However, there is a group of us here, and I don't know where you fit into this group, that have been, to put it mildly, obsessed with the game since it was first announced in August. We've not only been discussing and disecting the rules amongst ourselves, but we've also been scouring everywhere for any bits of news or information on the game. Over the past four months or so we've watched several videos of the designer and lead developer actually play the game as well as read all kinds of posts from them, be it on Facebook, Discord, Twitter, BGG or in some cases private messages. From these various sources we've put together a pretty good, albeit imperfect, understanding of the rules.

What's my point? Simply that until they specify otherwise, and given past rulings I wouldn't dare guess what's coming next, but given what we understand of the rules as clarified up to this point, the other two posters in this thread so far are correct and you are incorrect on when a card is discarded. Take all of that as you will.

I am also in that group obessed with the game and just because you say so doesn't make it true. But good try.

Library Acess reads ‘ Play : For the remainder of the turn, each time you play another card, draw a card.’

You play it, it sets up a lingering effect, then is put into the discard pile. There is no place for actions to linger around, which is why the ones that have effects that happen after their played have text specifying how long said effect lasts.

Also there is no spell speeds or play timing in this game. You play a card/reap/fight/discard, resolve all effects of that event/effects triggerd by said event. Then you can play/reap/fight/discard again if able, again resolving all effects of that event/ effects triggerd by said event. You can’t just play something in the middle of something happening because the game isn’t build that way.

7 hours ago, lostpike said:

I am also in that group obessed with the game and just because you say so doesn't make it true. But good try.

Well, if you are equally obsessed then you'd know it isn't me saying so. We're all simply acknowledging what has been clarified by the lead designer. What was your point again?

The real question is why create a new account just to argue this in a new thread?

It really matters not, but feel free to submit to the rules forum if you really need to see for yourself that these folk know what they’re talking about.