Here's the situation:

I land on a space occupied by another character. After declaring that I am going to engage him in battle, I cast the Toadify spell on him. He says that in return he is casting Random on me. After rolling for my Toadify spell, I successfully turn him into a toad for three turns.

Even though I declared my spell first and turned him into a toad, is he still able to cast Random on me?

My theory: Even though the Random spell states that it can be cast at anytime, the first spell cast (in this case Toadify) must be resolved before another spell can be cast, unless it is a spell that actually affects a spell being cast (such as Counterspell). If the resolution of that first spell then results in the opposing character losing his spells, then he is unable to cast something he is no longer in possession of.

Thoughts?

That's how I would play it. If you're going to cast Random, cast it when an opponent finishes their move in your space, but before they choose space/character. That way, you get your spell off first.

This is interesting it brings up the whole (seemingly unresolved) notion of spell casting and the timing of such things. As I recall, Random says "This spell may be cast at any time." There are no other additions or exceptions to that single sentence, and certain other cards have the same wording. I would think that if it truly wasn't able to be cast at any time, it would have additional explanation about the potential timing it *could* be cast. Just as other cards do, for example cards that state they need to be cast at the start/end of a player's turn, when one is starting combat, etc.

Similarly, what happens when two players decide to cast Random on one another? Does one take precedence over the other, or are they both resolved, one and then the next, regardless of the outcome(s)?

We've always played that there are two kinds of spells; those that can be cast at specific times (worded upon the card) and those that can be cast at any time (also worded on the card). Looking over it now, it just seems obvious that "at any time," means exactly that.

Just looking at the rules and what it suggests in two specific places, I found this:

"Both characters have the opportunity to cast spells before the dice can be rolled" (page 10 which is under 'Battles Between Two Characters')

"A spell can only be cast as stated on the Spell Card." (page 13)

It seems to suggest that when battle between two characters occurs, should spells be cast as stated on the card, they are all done so, and then all resolved *prior* to the rolls of combat beginning (again, unless the spells state they have to be done In or After combat, etc).

*However* it would be cool to just have a common understanding of what the nature of spells being cast is, and should be I really wish it wasn't like Magic: The Gathering, where it was all so jumbled and clustered. I always thought Talisman had it right by simply stating on the cards *when* and *how* spells needed to be cast. Just my .02¢

IMO:

you declare to attack

he does not evade, SO you cast toadify

he cannot counterspell, so you roll for your spell

he is turned into a toad, BUT a toad cannot cast spells (in my opinion, if your friend wanna use random on you he must wait the toadify effect: if not turned into a toad, then he can cast random at you) SO he simply cannot cast the spell IN THIS SPECIFIC SITUATION.

as i said before, if your friend don't become a toad or not lose the possibility to cast his spell (losing turn, special card effect ecc.) then he could cast his spell.

I agree with Air show.

If toadify works, then the other character cannot cast the random spell.

air show said:

Right. And I appreciate this, and I should've just copied over what I wrote in our other discussion about it because I know this'll seem repetitive at this point. However, I guess the problem here is the rules question works best with a specific example, but I don't feel the specific example necessarily answers the rules question. By that, I mean you both have good input, but you're also stating something that the official rule book doesn't say exists (I think I am going to go reread this afternoon, so I might be wrong here, and if I am my apologies in advance!): spells are cast and resolved in some "official" order. They're not, not like that. Combat with another character on a space occurs. Evasion if possible happens. Then, the rules specifically state, "Both characters have the opportunity to cast spells before the dice can be rolled [for combat]." It doesn't say, if one person has something happen to them, they don't get their spell cast. It doesn't say anything but, resolve any changes to character's STR & CFT.

This is where I think it gets muddy for no real reason. You and I both cast spells. Imagine a wizard and a sorceress who both stumble upon one another in a tavern. The spells aren't going to fire one at a time; there are going to be spells flying at the *same* time. Then you handle the effects. You get toaded and the other gets stronger... so be it. You both get stronger at the same time as a result...so be it. You both get turned into toads because both of your spells work? So be it.

For whatever it's worth, I actually think that makes for the more amazing and truly awesome outcome. Think of how rare that situation is, and how cool a story it becomes... just as a side note.

Velhart said:

I can appreciate that, man. Truly.

However, the spell doesn't say that's how it works: doesn't say "resolve this spell before any other action takes place" or anything. The rules say both characters can fire off spells. Then it says you resolve and move forward to combat rolling.

This is where, aside from the specific example of the individual spells mentioned above, I have questions. The rules say you both can do it, and the spell says it can be used anytime. For me, unless the rule book officially says "this is how spells are cast and resolved" then it's a logical step of you got a spell you wanna cast? Yeah, me too... ok, what's yours? Mine is this. Let's roll and see where we stand before the fight" - that kind of thing, you know? =)

Venasque said:

Basic rule is: who casts first resolves first. Unless your Spell explicitly states that it supersedes other Spells (this is why Counterspell has been quoted often in these examples), it is resolved later. If the first Spell puts you in the condition not to cast Spells, you can't cast it. Case closed.

This is official ruling, a.k.a. applying exactly what's written on the cards. The concept of "cast at any time" being like "Instant or Interruption" from Magic the Gathering, is just a deformation everybody is tempted to apply because he knows the popular Collectible Card Game (which I also used to play more than 12 years ago). In Talisman things are simpler: who casts first, resolves first. Not many doubts about it, what else should you do, if Spells don't allow you to do something different?

because sometimes there are so many rules that is easy to forget something, even if a simple but SO important rule like "who cast first resolves first".

sincerily, I forgot it! we play the same way, but only for our interpretation.

time to read rules and official & personal faqs again...