First thing first... Hi all and thx in advance for any kind answear..

Now a question tham may seem silly (and probably is) but that have plagued me for a few days (just got my hand on the new edition core rulebook)..

Is damage from kiho that directly inflict damage (such as way of the earthquake both enhancement and burst effect as well as fire/earth/water fist burst effect) subjected to the opponet resistance or does it bypass it?

By going many time trough the manual I see no reason why it should bypass the resistance, but at the same time by going to the presented enemy at the end of the core manual I've seen the most of them (actualy all but humble paesnt, shcolary shugenja, seasoned courtier and the small animals) have a phisical resistance of 2 or higher... even conlfict rank 1 enemy such as goblins have a phisical resistance of 3...

This obviously translate in all those kiho dealing little to no damage (actualy for a newly created character all those kiho means 0 damage against a goblin ^^' and even one with capped ring can only deal 2 damage agaist the most vile and yet less treatening monster out there)... let alone when facing higher conflict rank enemies, at that point even having a ring at 5 will result in 1 or no damage at all.

So... am I missing something and kiho actualy bypass the opponent resistance (really doubtlfull especially since freezing the lifblood burst effect specifically state that it's damage bypass resistance while no other kiho have such a specification) or am I understimating those meager damge/overstimating the phisical resistence of the potential enemies?

Once again thx in advance for any answear ^^

In general there's two types of damages and resistances: physical and supernatural (pg 238). They prevent physical and supernatural damage respectively. Havent tested kihos in my game (no monk) but now that you mention it, most damage (f.e. fire kihos) seems to be physical, which can be prevented by mundane armour.

Take into account that people dont normally wear armour (that's something they do in times of war, etc) so they usually move around in normal clothes (armour 1). Also most kihos give you some other bonus BESIDES the damage. But yeh, the ring based damaged looks pretty weak in many kihos. Perhaps it should have been supernatural damage. I dunno. Some parts of the system seem poorly tested.

Indeed, most of the damaging Kihos deal plain physical damage... but they might be more interesting for the other effects they have.

This said...

• The various "Fist" kihos, while not changing the damage type (except the Fire one), let you make regular attacks with an enhancement, which means you can pile up bonus successes for extra damage, as with any attack. Earth Fist gives your punches more raw damage than a Katana (assuming Earth 3+); Air strikes at a distance, but will rely on bonus successes to do much harm. Water actually does bypass resistance too, quite a lot of it. Fire is different: you get to - usually - face less resistance as your unarmed attacks deal supernatural damage AND you can also add more successes, but the real fun part is when you start dealing critical hits with this one.
• Some Kihos, rather that dealing damage, directly deal Fatigue: Grasp the Earth Dragon; Breaking Blow when the target does not want to damage their gear; Freezing the Lifeblood's enhancement effect... This is NOT damage; the fatigue amount is directly added and I don't think it can be resisted/defended against.
• Then you do have some Kihos dishing out supernatural damage: the Body is an Anvil is a personal favorite of mine Way of the Falling Star's burst effect also hits quite hard (Fire + Fitness, supernatural), even if the enhancement effect is not that great. As noted, Freezing the Lifeblood's burst effect both deals supernatural damage AND ignores resistance, but that's quite unique.
• There is a discussion about Death Touch in this forum... mostly good for the burst effect.
• At Rank 5, Way of the Edgeless Sword is just devastating. And the Kami forbid that a master Tattooed Monk combines it with another Kiho!

anybody who says the Togashi Monk is not one of the strongest school, if not the strongest school, in the core book is out of their mind.

On 12/7/2018 at 9:38 PM, Franwax said:

On 12/7/2018 at 10:08 PM, Avatar111 said:

anybody who says the Togashi Monk is not one of the strongest school, if not the strongest school, in the core book is out of their mind.

So, i´ve played with a monk and i didn´t see any of this.
Did we do something wrong?

A bunch of undead enemies ambushed us, they were 2 range bands away.
I jumped on to one of them, moved in and activated a kiho, let´s say it´s earthen fist just as an example. Now, if i get this right, i get bonus success and deal 2/3 damage to one of the enemies. Now my turn ends, because i cannot activate the kiho and then attack on my same turn. So it´s enemies turn, 3 of them pile up on me and start hitting me. I have the 1 resistance from the kiho but i have no armor, so each deals about 2/3 fatigue. Next turn is up, now i have to decide if i strike with a regular punch or kick with that extra 2/3 damage from my earth ring, or, activate another kiho?

if i go with regular strikes, it´s like striking with a katana (a little more damage maybe), but i only use one kiho for the whole fight. If i activate another kiho, then i´m just play with the burst effects, which by themselves are not that great. I don´t feel monks are so powerfull after all. We have a shujenga that blasted 3 undead with an invocation and we are at the same level.

The only way i see a monk as really powerfull is if kihos can be used with attack actions in the same turn, but i don´t think that´s the case.

4 hours ago, Keima87 said:

So, i´ve played with a monk and i didn´t see any of this.
Did we do something wrong?

No, probably not. However... a starting togashi with a good roll ((3&3)k3) can barely activate the burst reliably. Using the same ring, however, he can reliably hit for 2-5 damage unarmed, or critical fairly regularly. A swordsman is going to do more damage per turn.

The togashi advantage, however, scales with school rank in two dimensions. Most kihō are TN 2. That is still true for the favored tattoo-linked kihō. Burst effects, however, are easier by SR Bonus Successes. A typical roll on a strong combination of ring and skill (3&3k3) at rank 2 is reliably triggering kiho's bursts. At SR 3, all but one burst effect is automatic on the tattoo-linked kihō, and there are three that are linked. (Then again, by rank 3, the character is likely to have a ring at four and no rings at 1...)

On your damage resistance, don’t forget to count your simple clothing from your starting gear: that’s one more, so with earthen fist, you have 2 resistance.

Otherwise, yeah I think the idea is to pick one Kiho and get some mileage out of the enhancement effect for a few turn before switching if necessary. One way to go would be to activate Earthen fist, then switch to Fire Stance and compound the high base damage with Strife-bonus successes. If you expect to get hit a lot, open with the Body is an Anvil or Way of the earthquake.

Finally, while some burst effects are not that great (I am not impressed by Earthen fist, at least in terms of damage), some are positively nasty. Freezing the lifeblood is one example. You can also think of your Monk as a supporter who will slap conditional effects on your enemies for others to exploit.