Now that Clone Wars content is coming I’m curious as to what things will be considered too large for Legion.

I’ve heard that the AT-AT will not be added to Legion because it’s just too big and that the AT-ST and Airspeeder are not to correct scale either (not sure if any of that is true, but that’s the rumours I’ve heard, true or not).

There are a number of Clone Wars larger vehicles that I’d love to see, namely:

the LAAT http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Low_Altitude_Assault_Transport/infantry,

the AAT http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Armored_Assault_Tank,

and last, but definitely not least, the AT-TE http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Tactical_Enforcer

According to the wiki page (not sure if it’s correct), the AT-AT (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armored_Transport/Legends) is 20m in length. The problem is that the LAAT is 28.8m in length, more than eight meters longer than the AT-AT. If the LAAT is not included (and I don’t want to throw a tantrum here, but I will if I have to 🤪🤯), that would just be wrong on so many levels and begs the question, why even go with Clone Wars then? Before you answer that rhetorical question, let me also point out that the AT-TE is 22.02m in length, which is 2 meters longer than the AT-AT. Does that mean that we’re not getting that either? For that matter the AAT is 9.19m, but will they say it’s too large in overall dimensions (width and height)?

I guess the main question is, what’s FF’s criteria for exclusion to Legion? Is there an overall size? Specific length? Not sure I like a sliding scale, but is it better to have a sliding scale and have some of these included, or should we just make due with what there is left (under the size limits)?

Are there vehicles or units you would like to see that might end up getting excluded because of size? Love to hear what you guys think.

I can't speak for the at-st but when the airspeeder was announced, I ave several other people on the forum did quite a bit of image searching and photo comparisons and the airspeeder is right on scale. Pretty much perfect with the ones in the movie.

I seriously doubt manufacturing and implementing a **** huge model into their games is a problem considering the soon to be released SSD in Armada. The thing is like 2 feet long, on a 3 foot wide table... So FFG doesn't mind making huge models and putting them in the games. It's more a matter of what would work for legion, what would function and add depth and enjoyment to the game. So, sure, add an AT-AT, a LAAT, a AT-TE. Why not. GW puts massive tanks and aircraft into their games, why not Legion which is obviously meant to be the SW equivalent ground battle miniatures game. Your just gonna need scenarios and maps designed around them. ****, 40k players have been lining 2 dozen tanks across the board including superheavy ones longer than a foot on a 4x4 for decades. This is a miniatures game. Sure, it's an infantry game first, and I rather like that. But vehicles are a huge part of the SW universe, and people wanna buy big toys and use them. And FFG has already indulged that desire time and again. I think they are coming, and judging by how fast releases are coming for Legion it might be rather soon, like, a year or 2.

7 minutes ago, VadersToothbrush said:

I seriously doubt manufacturing and implementing a **** huge model into their games is a problem considering the soon to be released SSD in Armada. The thing is like 2 feet long, on a 3 foot wide table... So FFG doesn't mind making huge models and putting them in the games. It's more a matter of what would work for legion, what would function and add depth and enjoyment to the game. So, sure, add an AT-AT, a LAAT, a AT-TE. Why not. GW puts massive tanks and aircraft into their games, why not Legion which is obviously meant to be the SW equivalent ground battle miniatures game. Your just gonna need scenarios and maps designed around them. ****, 40k players have been lining 2 dozen tanks across the board including superheavy ones longer than a foot on a 4x4 for decades. This is a miniatures game. Sure, it's an infantry game first, and I rather like that. But vehicles are a huge part of the SW universe, and people wanna buy big toys and use them. And FFG has already indulged that desire time and again. I think they are coming, and judging by how fast releases are coming for Legion it might be rather soon, like, a year or 2.

Keep in mind that I'm going to be talking specifically about the AT-AT and AT-TE with this

Armada is played in a 2 dimensional space with obstacles consisting of cardboard cutouts of asteriods, debris, etc. You don't need to worry about how much space something is going to take up like that, only that it will fit in the first place.

Legion has 3 dimensional terrain and elevation changes. The larger the units that get put in, especially ground based units, the more the movement in the game is going to feel like a chore. Furthermore, legion is designed around building an army and the objectives for a game are random. I really doubt that they'd be usable in a normal game and they'd have to be a special scenario, which would limit play of them similar to epic x-wing. The AT-AT would end up being twice as tall as the AT-ST model and well over a foot long. The only way that'll work is with the front legs being on one base and the back on another. If the map you're playing on is even remotely hilly, good luck placing that after a movement.

As for OP the LAAT would work betterish than large ground vehicles, but the problem I have with it is that's a big ol chuck of plastic held up...somehow. That base will have to be massive if you want it to be stable, or it's gonna fall and it's gonna break something. I personally think the cutoff should be at the AAT size, if even that for 800 point games. If it is 9ish meters long (not counting the barrel), the base for one would need to be bigger than the current huge base. I can't really give an in game reason for why clone wars at all as I'm really not familiar with EU on that end

I’d buy them, does that answer the question?

Yeah, those are all great considerations and problems that those big vehicles will have. But 40k included them anyways, and I think FFG and legion will anyways. People are begging for them here on the forums and buying old kenner and hasbro toys and putting them in their games all over the internet. And the game is barely a year old and they are going crazy for the at-at's and stuff. No way FFG is leaving that sweet dough on the table. Furthermore, it'd be great fun. Yeah, moving them around is gonna be a huge chore, but after seeing a dude play a game with THREE tau mantas in a single game, i have come to realize there are gamers out there, not all, not the majority, probably not even alot, but enough to justify making them who will go after the enormous battles and models and use them despite how obnoxious they are to physically transport and play with. Because it's awesome. Silly? Yes. Overkill? Yes. But darn cool to look at. Bigger table sizes and scenarios are going to be required, but thats not really too far either. I mean, again, relating it back to 40k apocalypse battles have been massively popular for a decade. Even X-wing, ffg's most venerable star wars mini game has their own massive battle system to use multiple foot long+ corvettes in. So it'll come I think. And im sorry for relating alot back to 40k, but it's got alot to tell about where miniatures games CAN go in terms of obnoxiously large models and scale of battles in a 28mm game. Titans have multiple legs each with a base, and thunderhawks are way bigger than LAATs. Heck, they made METAL thunderhawks back in the day. Yeah, a twenty five pound brick. On a flying stand. Oof.

TLDR; your right, your gonna need special scenarios and game modes. But I think thats coming, though not the 40k route of just cranking the standard game size up to over 9000 because FFG seems to have better game design and straight up self control.

Man, whoever tacked the 30 meters on the LAAT/i should be fired. In Legends sources they were under 20 meters, while the carrier variant was noticeably larger. Guess somebody decided they were the same size. So for a size comparison, that's like 5.5 Snowspeeders long, which is probably not practical for normal Legion, I expect it'll be a few years before we get to "epic" 200 dollar models like the AT-AT and the apparently fat-butt LAAT/i. At least the LAAT/le is only like two snowspeeders long... As is the AAT - that might be a bit awkward with current base sizes though.

I think the 10 meter mark is probably acceptable if FFG makes like one more base size up, and I hope they do because I really want to see some ground vehicle variety. Flying vehicles have more leeway if they make a strong enough stand, the Droid HMP gunship for instance could be pretty good if raised high enough up.

I think we've hit the size cap for a little while. Snowspeeders and AT-ST's are probably about as big as this game will go for now. It was advertised as an infantry game so vehicles will probably kept in a support role anyways.

Implementing a larger scale, while possible, would be a substantial undertaking both model and rules wise. Considering how much work is left for the GCW factions and how much the clone wars factions will likely involve to stand up effectively, I wouldn't expect anything larger than what we currently have for some time.

Since the WH40K comparison have been brought up, I will just add 2-3 words:

WAR-LORD-TITAN

I think we will see AAT for CIS and the Republic repulsor tanks for the Clones.

The Rogue one Occupier tank is a foregone conclusion since we’ve entered R1 space.

I think that’s around the limit. Laat would be bonkers cool though, even if it’s just as terrain.

We're gonna see an AT-AT. Move along.

The question for me isn't what is to big, can the rules be changed or a game mode added that makes it overall enjoyable. For instance if an AT-AT model came out, I would totally buy it and spend hundreds on it.....but based on the game and table size it doesn't work. We would need double the table size to make it work, we would need new command cards or things like smoke grenades to give a counter to long range units. We would need transports for our 1 movement speed units, etc.

12 minutes ago, Uetur said:

The question for me isn't what is to big, can the rules be changed or a game mode added that makes it overall enjoyable. For instance if an AT-AT model came out, I would totally buy it and spend hundreds on it.....but based on the game and table size it doesn't work. We would need double the table size to make it work, we would need new command cards or things like smoke grenades to give a counter to long range units. We would need transports for our 1 movement speed units, etc.

Many large sw vehicles are transports, like the at-at, laat, at-te, U-wing, shuttles, so transports kinda go hand in hand with bigger models. And Grand Army is already in the game.

I think the LAAT would work in Legion. It would be akin to the Stormraven in 40k

Again... Legion has been out for 8 months. 40k has been out for what, 35 years give or take? I don't think we have to give it as much time as that. I'm sure they'll start coming out with large scale models relatively soon probably a couple years or so. I don't play Armada but I'm definitely going to buy an SSD. And I'll sign up and jump on an AT-AT as soon as it comes out believe me.... Or announced really.

there are lots of things to take into account with the AT-AT. The first is the scale of the model. I feel that this is the easiest of the issues to overcome. The next is the base, there would need to be some sort of new type of base created as a single circular base would take up too much room on the battlefield. If they do decide to make it in scale with everything else each foot could get a large base. I don't think a single base would work as it would get in the way of the terrain on the board. The last consideration is how do you make it feel right. The only things we see kill one are a snowspeeder with a tow cable, Luke with a grenade, several orbital bombardments (Battlefield II in the battle of Jaku). We already have cards in game that represent all of those things and the damage they produce can't even take out an infantry squad with the exception of Luke. Getting the feel of the AT-AT right would be the hardest thing.

2 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

there are lots of things to take into account with the AT-AT. The first is the scale of the model. I feel that this is the easiest of the issues to overcome. The next is the base, there would need to be some sort of new type of base created as a single circular base would take up too much room on the battlefield. If they do decide to make it in scale with everything else each foot could get a large base. I don't think a single base would work as it would get in the way of the terrain on the board. The last consideration is how do you make it feel right. The only things we see kill one are a snowspeeder with a tow cable, Luke with a grenade, several orbital bombardments (Battlefield II in the battle of Jaku). We already have cards in game that represent all of those things and the damage they produce can't even take out an infantry squad with the exception of Luke. Getting the feel of the AT-AT right would be the hardest thing.

The cargo versions of it got taken out by the U-Wing turret Gunners in rogue one, I think. But I digress; you have a great point. I think with a little planning these are pretty workable. I really like this to get an AT-AT out on the field just so I could use it as fortification or terrain for a scenario even.

Most likely, an AT-AT, and any other large walker, would likely get an oval shaped base of some kind. Or possibly have two bases, one for the front feet and one for the back, with space in the middle for open ground.

It would also likely have special rules regarding its movement. Like the ability to walk sideways, as well as walk over obstacles of certain heights.

42 minutes ago, Obvious_Ninja said:

The cargo versions of it got taken out by the U-Wing turret Gunners in rogue one, I think. But I digress; you have a great point. I think with a little planning these are pretty workable. I really like this to get an AT-AT out on the field just so I could use it as fortification or terrain for a scenario even.

Yeah, though the cargo version was less armoured and larger. The cargo version would be the easiest one to implement from a gameplay prospective.

The cargo version, the at-act is also massive which I recently found out, its not a standard at-at. It stands about 100m tall versus the at-at at 75m ish. They'd probably wanna implement the at-at first, if they wanna make the at-act at all. You need the at-at for hoth and the at-act isn't REALLY a combat vehicle and is really big, for a vehicle that will kinda be redundant and expensive. But hey, it looks awesome so more power to them. The at-at isn't WAY too big either.

Here is someone using a scale at-at in a game of legion.

Height and length aren’t that big a deal, depending on speed (I’d say make it fast enough to cross the play area lengthwise once), but the feet would probably need to be based independently and self-articulating such that the AT-AT could stand on nearly any surface (maybe even, gasp, no base at all, just the feet).

For the AT-AT I personally like the idea of two bases (each being a kind of lozenge large base) with some degree of leg articulation that could help with 3D terrain. Two bases and a move 1 ruler also keeps the speed reasonable.

So I got tired of speculating about this and threw together a digram to explore sizes...

Basically I think the AT-AT can look correct on the the table as short as 20m which also seems playable with special rules.

Going down from the there the Republic AT-TE walker gets the 'correct' 9m height if we shrink it to 18m long. Should look okay with figures... base and movement could be trickier with this one tho' than the AT-AT.

The LAAT Gunship official scales make no sense. Comparing to screen cap pictures of troopers in the front door, I'd say a reasonable (and playable Legion scale) is closer to 16m long... and on a stable base (maybe the same one used for 1/2 of the AT-AT feet, seems doable on the table (pity about the overhangs though).

The AAT Droid Tank on the other hand seems puny at the official 9m long scale. At 11m it seems better sized and quite reasonable to put on an existing large base.

The problem is an official book says 28 is the length of the LAAT/i (which was the legends length of the /c which actually needs to be that long). LFL and Disney are supposed to be very picky about sticking to new official numbers - which is a shame, the formerly official ~17m version is much more the size of HIND gunship, which I'm pretty sure influenced the aesthetics. If FFG can actually make it that small (or Lucasfilm contradicts itself) it'd be more manageable. Thoughts on the droid equivalent, the HMP Gunship which is 12.4 meters long, only ~3m tall?

1 hour ago, CaptainRocket said:

For the AT-AT I personally like the idea of two bases (each being a kind of lozenge large base) with some degree of leg articulation that could help with 3D terrain. Two bases and a move 1 ruler also keeps the speed reasonable.

So I got tired of speculating about this and threw together a digram to explore sizes...

Basically I think the AT-AT can look correct on the the table as short as 20m which also seems playable with special rules.

Going down from the there the Republic AT-TE walker gets the 'correct' 9m height if we shrink it to 18m long. Should look okay with figures... base and movement could be trickier with this one tho' than the AT-AT.

The LAAT Gunship official scales make no sense. Comparing to screen cap pictures of troopers in the front door, I'd say a reasonable (and playable Legion scale) is closer to 16m long... and on a stable base (maybe the same one used for 1/2 of the AT-AT feet, seems doable on the table (pity about the overhangs though).

The AAT Droid Tank on the other hand seems puny at the official 9m long scale. At 11m it seems better sized and quite reasonable to put on an existing large base.

Bearing in mind on the tank, the droids are thinner than humanoids, so cramped quarters should be less of a problem for them physically.