So we are getting more obstacles in Wave 3, but in Wave 2 we get something that can literally move through asteroids. We can add obstacles with rigged cargo shoot, but seismic charge can remove obstacles.
I am wondering are obstacles having a greater effect or less of an effect in 2nd edition?
They feel much more impactful in second edition.
When you can actively build to ignore, add, remove them it can drastically change how you approach the game from both sides of the board.
The more interactions or even none interactions (ignoring) there are with obstacles the more important their placement and how you approach them. Until the time we have both 200pts of fleets ignoring obstacles (for every factor of the game) they are going to become much more meaningful in the game.
The battlefield being more dynamic is a good thing imo.
The effect is most definitely greater, but also very different to 1st edition. There are more things that interact with obstacles in meaningful ways, as @Icelom says above. In 1st edition they were pretty much just there purely to get in the way, or to be ignored by Dash. Now you can build lists around them if you want, or use Collision Detector to give yourself options with them. I think it's one of the areas 2nd edition has really improved upon.
Personally, I always liked the rule that allowed to use epic ships as obstacles, plus there are a number of different shaped obstacles (which came for mission play use) that never were allowed for tournament play.
What a waste of resources, IMO.
47 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:Personally, I always liked the rule that allowed to use epic ships as obstacles
In casual play, I often slap a GR-75 in the middle of the board 
CR-90 is just too big and annoying to move your hands around. Same goes for the Imp ships really. And the C-ROC doesn't look so good IMHO.
I agree with the general consensus, it’s much more interesting in a good way. And adding third type of obstacle just around the time we get a ship that can ignore strictly asteroids doesn’t seem coincidental. It’s good game design, giving us more options.
I’m extremely curious what Vultures have to do to flip their config card, because it’s a tad weird to me that they seem capable of parking on debris fields and the new could type, not just asteroids, as would be a bit more thematic, I feel.
1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:I agree with the general consensus, it’s much more interesting in a good way. And adding third type of obstacle just around the time we get a ship that can ignore strictly asteroids doesn’t seem coincidental. It’s good game design, giving us more options.
I’m extremely curious what Vultures have to do to flip their config card, because it’s a tad weird to me that they seem capable of parking on debris fields and the new could type, not just asteroids, as would be a bit more thematic, I feel.
It's an interesting design space for sure. I think the TIE is the first card that actually specifies an obstacle type, but both Sloane, Lando's Falcon and even Recoil strongly suggest what sort of obstacles you should bring (or avoid).
They have more of an impact, but there's still only 6 on the board.
In trials with my son, we figured that obstacles don't really matter until you have 10+ on the board or you have ways to mess with them (seismic, tractors, etc).
1 hour ago, drjkel said:10+ on the board
clustering rocks tightly and fighting amongst them will also make the rocks relevant
1 hour ago, drjkel said:ways to mess with them
Any ship can mess with other ships in rocks by blocking them onto rocks, using rocks to prevent enemies flanking them, or simply by being in the way of the one path through the rock that the enemy really wants
Well between more pilot and ship abilities that trigger off of obstacles, bombs that work off of obstacles, addition of new wave 3 obstacles, more crew that interact with obstacles, built in rules to lock obstacles, and the general lack of free modifiers....
yeah, I’m gonna say they are a bigger deal in 2.0. Hands down.
11 hours ago, gadwag said:clustering rocks tightly and fighting amongst them will also make the rocks relevant
Any ship can mess with other ships in rocks by blocking them onto rocks, using rocks to prevent enemies flanking them, or simply by being in the way of the one path through the rock that the enemy really wants
I know people are all rah-rah-rah about the masterful high level X-wing, but there's no magic involved and both players have agency to avoid horrible situations. Clusters of rocks are more easily avoided and blocks are rarely a shocking surprise, worst case, it's not the move you thought more likely to happen.
Our "way more rock" practice is something we did at home to better prep for tournaments. Once 10+ rocks don't phase you, the 6 on the board in a normal tournament match really feels like a wide open starmap.
Another fun exercise was to litter the field with as many rocks as possible (we kept the "range 1 from each other" and changed it to "range 1 from the edge") and try to go diagonally across the map with a large-base unmaneuverable ship (we used a YV-666) with a point gained for every move necessary and another for any rock hit. The goal is (obviously) to get the lowest possible score. I think our record was 10.
Another thing that makes rocks feel more impactful is the fact that very few ships can actually combine barrel roll and boost in the same turn. Some bad planning or a good block from an opponent might force a pilot like Fenn to spend 2 or sometimes even 3 turns before he can safely return to the fight.
9 hours ago, drjkel said:Our "way more rock" practice is something we did at home to better prep for tournaments.
I thought you had just adopted more rocks as your regular play format because 6 was too few. Practicing with tons of rocks sounds like a great idea!
There's way more interaction with obstacles than we ever saw in 1.0, so I'll lean towards "more". I think the devs are trying to create something of an obstacle META game. We do have Dash continuing to ignore obstacles as always, but we also have a lot of obstacle play going on in Scum thanks to Han, Beckett, and the mining tie's. The Vultures can do some pretty new and exciting stuff with them as well. Then we have Trick Shot acting as a cheap incentive to work around obstacles and Seismic's and Collision Detector adding a good bit of counter play against obstacle based strategies. It feels like after the next couple waves, you may need to put some thought into which rocks you bring, or you might accidentally play right into someones game-plan. Watch out for Beckett, at just two points he'll likely become a popular option for either Han and some Mining Ties, or those same Ties with a Quad or two dropping Siesmic's or Proton's.
Edited by Hippie Moosen2 hours ago, Hippie Moosen said:There's way more interaction with obstacles than we ever saw in 1.0, so I'll lean towards "more". I think the devs are trying to create something of an obstacle META game. We do have Dash continuing to ignore obstacles as always, but we also have a lot of obstacle play going on in Scum thanks to Han, Beckett, and the mining tie's. The Vultures can do some pretty new and exciting stuff with them as well. Then we have Trick Shot acting as a cheap incentive to work around obstacles and Seismic's and Collision Detector adding a good bit of counter play against obstacle based strategies. It feels like after the next couple waves, you may need to put some thought into which rocks you bring, or you might accidentally play right into someones game-plan. Watch out for Beckett, at just two points he'll likely become a popular option for either Han and some Mining Ties, or those same Ties with a Quad or two dropping Siesmic's or Proton's.
Well 1st edition meta did have that Turn 0 strategy. So obstacle placement was a big deal. The selection didn't change until the TFA core which had different selection of asteroids from ones just slightly bigger or smaller than the Big One and then you had pebbles the smallest one and another smaller than the smallest asteroid if you want to reduce the area obstacles covered. The Debris Clouds didn't seem to make that much of a difference. I swear I saw more rigged cargo chute tokens on the table than the Wave 5 obstacles.
11 hours ago, gadwag said:I thought you had just adopted more rocks as your regular play format because 6 was too few. Practicing with tons of rocks sounds like a great idea!
My oldest (turning 9 next week) was X-wing crazy from the TFA release to the 2.0 announcement, we played a lot at home and had monthly tournaments. I'm trying to convince him to give 2.0 a try. If he doesn't play, it's hard to justify spending a day on X-wing when all 3 boys are home (#2 doesn't like X-wing, but has taken a liking to campaign IA and #3 is 5, he's learning).
Here's an ace-off practice. He was probably running over 100pts there and not a single rock was touched that match:
