signoftheserpent said:

Not in those exact words but basically yes. Usually they believe, stubbornly so I might add, that they have done nothing wrong and seem to possess the mindset that their fun is the only fun that matters or that their way is the only way to play the game. Don't believe me, I have a list of freeform RP forums you can swing by, they're the worst for this sort of thing.

Finally, your arguement falls flat at one thing. This is ultimately a group activity. For better or worse, if the group is not having fun then something is wrong and it needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, group > one player. Fortunately, the OP actually managed to fix the problem in the most civil way possible. And one that actually makes the most sense within the context of the game I might add.

going back to the OP... Why is the engineer trying to be a combat god? Seriously, why? I'm all for being half-way competent in a field outside of your speciality but that? No, no, no... I'm suddenly grateful my group's own powergamer isn't quite as savvy.

Sigh... Signoftheserpent, I'll reveal you one of the hidden and biggest facts of human nature: for every rule made there are at least five ways to exploit it. If you don't believe me, just hang out with some lawyers for a time...

Now, about some more misconceptions you seem to have: the dices are not in the game because without them the system has no reason to exist. The dice are there, and are rolled, because they are aleatoric, which means no one can be blamed because of their results, translated into actions thanks to the rules. It wouldn't be the first time my RP group spends two complete sessions of four hours each without rolling a single dice, because if you are cautious enough (and if the adventure doesn't demand you to engange in combat personally) you can make them irrelevant. Following the Chess analogy earlier mentioned, a CheckMate doesn't allow for other options.

By the waym you completely ignored what I said about how a player obsessed with the rules (that is a munchkin for me, not someone who seems to take pleasure making the biggest badass to show off, make the other players completely irrelevant, ruin the fun for everybody, and complain each time his character cannot be on the spotlight doing his awesome only thing he can do) forces the GM to scale the encounters to his level of power, forcing the other PC's to be optimized just to survive... efectively kidnapping all the group, and more than probably ruining the fun of everybody (by accident).

This issue is mentioned in a lot of games, in several sidebars. I don't remember if DH or RT adresses it, but I'm sure other games I played (and directed) do, giving advices like "talk with the player out of the game", "try to solve it in-game" (if you wanna have that beautifull best-crafted 55% energy shield, you better make sure no one can pickpocket it from you...), etc...

There are many reasons and justifications why one should make a character that is good at two things instead of one. Powergamer will try to make his character to usually be the one to be able to win in every single fight happening to stumble on his way, but a min/maxer is a more crafty one. He makes sure that when dice wont favour him, he can still "win" as much as there is to win in a common group activity by creating the most flexible and statistically above average as possible character. And one thing about minimizing the weaknesses is to not leave any weaknesses at all.

Exploiterator is a dream come true in that regard, a low willpower can be mitigated by taking out your brain, turning yourself into machine and becoming fearless, low social skills doesnt matter diddly squat in a trader game if the role you have adopted is the mechanic/fixer/the guy that gets it working. Now this leaves us with whats left in a roleplaying game usually from mechanical point of view, combat. Inevitably there will be combat, against warp creatures, mutants, pirates or whatnots. A roleplayer might have used his mechanical advantages in character creation to becoming good with his chosen profession, to justify himself for taking that profession to begin with (or to blow all his skillpoints and stuff all over the place on a random roll of dice and call it roleplaying *sigh*) and then give a smattering of points/talents/traits to something that gives a justification to hold a gun in combat all in favour of a backstory. With exploiterator there is a possibility for getting both unnatural intelligence and unnatural strenght, both feats that have an exponentially increasing rewards they give and both affecting attributes that favour the chosen profession and combat (almost forgot, you can actually intimidate with feats of strenght making it not totally an social pariah.).

Min/maxer makes the best of what he can, then applies a backstory. With some skill in telling tales it isnt too hard to weave an entertaining and as near realistic life to a character as possible, and often times its easier to weave a story based on attributes than to weave a story and then try to apply attributes upon it, depending on the game system.

A roleplaying game is about spotlights, granted. Everyone wants to shine in a way or other, but this particular player is the shy and staying on the background kind of guy who doesnt wield his numerical superiority like a jackhammer trying to steal the spotlight as many times as possible. So in combat situations, he most often tends to use his characters in a supportive roles letting others be heroes. This is all fine and good with me, and challenging the group is a no problem at all in either social, explorative or combat related tasks. One reason to play this game is fun, and I dare say that we as a group have fun. Otherwise a bunch of hairy men wouldnt be gathering together, now would they?

Then comes the situations where I as a game master wish to truly challenge and make them weep on their knees. An unbound psyker ravaging the land, a horde of mutants pouring out of the tunnels, an ancient and mechanical deathtrap spelling certain doom for one of the partymembers. A certain partywipe, someone losing a limb, generally feces hitting the propel of a small aeroplane situations. And I know when presenting such an obstacle, "those" are his chances to shine.

This just presents a small problem of the party usually being uncapturable unless I use gm fiat if the exploiterators character is on the scene. And it generally just makes it harder to make them lose, but I still manage a crushing defeat every now and then by applying some tactics from a good ole book written by Sun Tzu!

And sometimes I fail, the big bad evil guy dying under three hours of the first session of the campaing and after shoveling ithem with rewards in the game call it a pub night instead so we can all merrily get blasted and I can figure out a whole new plot. ^.^

Actually, an "impossible to dominate character" can be dealt with in two ways: first is to ask the player to refrain from doing certain things (I really really swear my Werewolf shaman in the OWOD was able to ignore the "Russia lockdown situation" by pure ******* chance, but since I'm the GM there the troubles are not very big), or just keeping that character out of the action (the moment the group splits, the members are attacked. I have decided to use that to keep the Techpriest out of Tattered Fates since I don't wanna think about the implants... That, and the fact that I am going to GM that and I wanna play before the tracking of the kidnapped people).

If you manage to make them part of tthe "GM side" they can be invaluable allies... and there is always the role-play excuse (in one of the first adventure's ending we played, the GM wanted to send us with IG units and inquisitorial stormtroopers and an inquisitor to hunt Genestealers inside tunnels, completely narrratively. I refused, since my techpriest's role is not that).

meh, A farseer using mindwar will make a mess out of him.

If he wants to have a combat character let him, but if you want to let the others in the group shine, find some situations where he's no good, he'll soon branch out. For instance, set a combat on board fast moving vehicles, his Hug of death is not very useful in this regard. You could even out minmax him with an ork warlord in mega armour complete with a power klaw. If the power of his attack is becoming a problem then, as you've seen from the posts above, there is no shortage of ways of dealing with him constructively or destructively.

As a side note, I not sure that the implants count as bionics. My reasoning is that bionics tend to be replacements (heart legs etc) whereas implants tend to be enhancements. I thought the idea of the background was to simulate an old wound, not an systems upgrade.

As a side note, I not sure that the implants count as bionics. My reasoning is that bionics tend to be replacements (heart legs etc) whereas implants tend to be enhancements. I thought the idea of the background was to simulate an old wound, not an systems upgrade.

Why would implants gained at character creation by way of being a tech priest be intended to simulate old war wounds? Why specifically tech priests then, it would make more sense to slap war wounds on the arch militant career. Tech priests augment, replace and upgrade themselves, it's what they do.

If it's the wording "bionic implants" I guess I could understand, but on the other hand the cybernetics section divides the cybernetics into "bionic replacements" and "implants" so it's ambigous.

I just started running a RT trader campaign and right off the bat I had to ask the player with the Navigator to tone down his character a bit. He ended up with 27 hit points, regeneration, and a bunch of other mutations. I explained to him that the character was way too tough in relation to the other characters in the game. Weapons that would hurt his Navigator would destroy the other players. He agreed, and ended up making a new character.

This kind of straightforward talk is far better than arbitrarily taking someone's armor away or designing scenarios tailor made to destroy their character. These kinds of actions breed bad feelings in game groups.

I agree with MD Gibson. It may be difficult to broach the subject with the player, but think of it in terms of potentially causing resentment and irritation when the campaign begins.

Send a few Dark Eldar Wytches after him, as he is exactly the kind of meat they want in the arenas. Excellent Dodge + best quality mono-weapons... guess he's going to start a new career in entertainment.

Just run an adventure that ends up in a scrap yard. Have a giant electromagnet crane hit the Tech Priest and lift him up out of the fight. Give him a big penalty WP test or the magnet becomes like a drug. That way he is strung up 100 meters in the air, out of the fight, and stoned with a new addiction and some IP’s.

Death by massive magnet?

Epic win! ^.~

I am compelled to ask if the OP actually read the grapple rules. Grapple, in any system, is generally a convoluted mechanic, however, in RT/DH it's really pretty easy. You get to make either a weaponskill test as a standard action attack, or as part of a charge (read as, you only ever get one of these in a round). Now, said techpriest wrestler sure may have a 100 strength and unnatural strength x2 because of power armor, mutation, and best quality muscle grafts. In order to do any damage, his opponent needs to not dodge or parry... in my experience as a GM, that's like not saving your dodge/parry to avoid the guy with the krak missle launcher, it doesn't happen. Let's keep going for arguement's sake, and say that the Tech-wrestler actually gets ahold of his opponent, now, he wants to do damage to him. The damage on that is 1d5 -3 + SB Primative, so, it would be 1d5+15 Primative (-3, 8 SB x2, +2 more from power armor). Now, if this is a schmuck, with no armor, you bet, that guy is snapped in half, but honestly, a powersword in his hands would be more effective... by alot. Now, let's say this ISN'T just some shmoe in no armor... let's say it's an Ork Freeboota out of the back of the book. That ork will, at most, take 2 points of damage (toughness bonus 8, body armor 5x2 because the attack is primative), plus more if he's lucky and righteous furies, all the while, he's grappling, and that ork's friends get a +20 to hit him with their chainaxes. The OP doesn't realize that, a +0 contortionist check gets you out of the grapple (it's a basic skill so anyone can try it and totally ignore the Tech-Wrestler's 100 str). This damage wont' even scratch the armor of the stock space marine... or another party member with power armor.

Add to this, the ease that some classes or adversaries get counter-attack, and you will actually see the Tech-Wrestler is not just a one trick pony, but a one trick, easily avoidable pony. Add to the fact he's massive and taking extra damage from... well anything, since he's easier to hit by alot and really, this is NOT a broken mechanic. You don't even HAVE to tell him to roll something new. Sure, he can dominate and 1 shot flunkies, but so can any other character in RT. He can't strangle greater daemons, let alone a Bloodletter (TB8, AB 12 from his normal brass armor value of 6).

Sure, he can grapple and holds something for an almost indefinite amount of time with his inordinately high strength, however... that's it, and again, that's assuming that his one target doesn't simply dodge or parry, AND that he makes his weaponskill test.

MILLANDSON said:

What this guy says 10000%. Power gamers ruin good role-playing period.

MILLANDSON said:

Problem is, though, that you know this person and are probably friends with this person if they are a member of your group. I think some of the less overtly confrontational methods, such as just straight-up talking to the guy, are less likely to make him go on the defensive or hack him off.

For something that is "munchkin" and "powergamed" it's... incredibly ineffective and a massive waste of xp without appropriate melee combat skills (dual wielding, multi-attack, etc). If there's a reason to talk to this player, it's to point that out to him. One melee attack is almost retardedly easy to avoid/negate, and that is all this massive strength gets him, 1 attack with a powerfist, 1 attempt at a grapple (that will do no more than an armsmaster w/an autogun or bolter, either way, to an unarmored shmuck target, it's dead).

Rakshasa said:

Not in my case, where I generally roleplay at my university's RP society (which I used to run) and has about 70 members. Plenty of other people for me to invite to the game who I know can roleplay without being a munchkin, and no need to spare his feelings about it.

Of course, for my close personal games (such as my Rogue Trader playtest group) I only play with my close friends, all of which I've played with for many years and all of which share my views on munchkins/powergamers, so this situation wouldn't come up.

Rakshasa said:

The group i game in everyone knows why we all game.If someone decided to be a power gamer for what ever reason then they would simply have to find another group.This issue has never been a problem so far.

MILLANDSON said:

I'm not 100% sure why you feel there's no need to spare someone's feelings on the issue. It just seems to me that a civil "look, this isn't how we generally play this sort of a game", followed by a short - if possibly patronising - discussion about what the group usually expects and how that is fun for them might be a better long term solution than a method that could come across as needlessly belligerent.

Even if, to use your example, the game is taking place at a University Roleplaying Society, the player you've given the high hat to is still going to be around at the Society (if you're lucky - if not, they're probably just going to leave and do something else). The posturing might sound good at the time, and might make a point, but it will in some likelihood lead to long-term problems.

I don't see the problem, his character is obviously a power gaming twink, shoot him with a missile launcher, or have him get one-shotted by a Vindicare, or have a Psykana Templar Calix evicerate him with a Force Weapon, or have the Ordo Hereticus take him for mandatory mutation screening and "cleansing". Do anything else you please that results in his munchkin-arse getting nuked, thus giving him exactly what he deserves and an opportunity to make a character that isn't so absurd at the same time!

Or you could just take him aside and say "look, your character is stupid, you're ruining the game, stop being a child and make a new, not-stupid character."

Just remember, Explorators aren't broken, they arn't the problem, your player is the problem.