3 minutes ago, ColinEdwards said:

Yeah, but if you take Fastred (or Damrod for traps), you don't have all-hobbit or (hobbit-ranger), which removes some of the stuff you can do - like Shirefolk. (I think Shirefolk is a great card: but does it work well with Bilbo + Dwarves or anything thematic?)

I wasn't advocating Bilbo in that deck -- but honestly, I've got to say Fastred/LeEomer/TaBilbo would be great fun. Fastred pops an enemy back in staging, then the following questing phase Bilbo can steal its threat and ding it, while Eomer quests and kills it. Plus Bilbo's the right sphere to play weapons and armor on Fastred and LeEomer. Total awesomeness.

Shirefolk is only for all-Hobbit decks -- but the *existence* of Shirefolk means that *any* Hobbit deck has reasonable expectation of low threat, even if they're using either version of 9-threat Bilbo. I don't think Bilbo had to be priced so high -- I'm just saying that even at nine threat, either version is going to be an asset in an all hobbit deck.

Just now, Seastan said:

Beravor is the 10th most common hero in the game according to RingsDB usage.

I think she's great - if you are working with the core set. 10th most common in decks using cards past Numenor?

6 minutes ago, Kjeld said:

It's really ridiculous how Bilbo -- one of the most famous and iconic of all Hobbits -- gets the complete shaft in this game. He's outperformed by all but SpPippin and Fatty! I mean, flippin' Folco Boffin has a 2-2-0-2 stat line, and an incredible utility ability as well! Sometimes I just don't get the LotR LCG design team at all...

Folco Boffin is a much more attractive hero for a threat-conscious hobbit deck maker -- but honestly, I'm glad Bilbo's big ability isn't to go away!

3 minutes ago, ColinEdwards said:

I think she's great - if you are working with the core set. 10th most common in decks using cards past Numenor?

Sounds plausible to me. I've done a lot of deck analysis for my Stereotypical deck series, and Beravor is usually the most picked utility hero in Lore -- that's not enough to actually be selected for a stereotypical deck, though, since thematic picks usually outnumber utility picks.

7 minutes ago, Seastan said:

Beravor is the 10th most common hero in the game according to RingsDB usage.

Where can I see such stats? Hall of Beorn has 472 votes on Beravor, but RingsDB has about 680 decks with Beravor.

7 minutes ago, ColinEdwards said:

I think she's great - if you are working with the core set. 10th most common in decks using cards past Numenor?

She's still fantastic, even more now that we have more readying options than ever. In a deck that can pump out allies like crazy with just a couple attachments, like Dale, drawing 2 extra cards per turn is more useful than the 3rd hero stats honestly.

Quote

Fastred

Yeah the interaction between Fastred and Bilbo is going to be fun to play around, but I'm surprised we got this far into the thread without anyone mentioning the other obvious card to keep enemies in the staging area: Spirit Pippin! 😁

1 minute ago, dalestephenson said:

Sounds plausible to me. I've done a lot of deck analysis for my Stereotypical deck series, and Beravor is usually the most picked utility hero in Lore -- that's not enough to actually be selected for a stereotypical deck, though, since thematic picks usually outnumber utility picks. 

I actually mean that as a serious question; I think up through the end of Kazad-Dum, she was a very common choice and a lot of the decks date back to that period. Let's say "In decks using cards post-Celebrimbor's Secret", how common is she? (I think she slowed down in inclusion post-Numenor, but post-Galadriel: it's been AGES since I have seen her.)

2 minutes ago, Amicus Draconis said:

Where can I see such stats? Hall of Beorn has 472 votes on Beravor, but RingsDB has about 680 decks with Beravor.

I used Hall of Beorn and sorted by popularity: http://hallofbeorn.com/LotR?CardType=Hero&Sort=Popularity&View=Card_Text

HoB updates the usage from RingsDB every so often.

8 minutes ago, Seastan said:

I used Hall of Beorn and sorted by popularity: http://hallofbeorn.com/LotR?CardType=Hero&Sort=Popularity&View=Card_Text

HoB updates the usage from RingsDB every so often.

I used that as well, though I hoped, there was a way in RingsDB to show rankings. At any rate, while Tactics Éowyn is ranked at #4 in HoB, she has less than 640 decks on RingsDB, compared to Beravor's 680. Though it is possible, that HoB only counts unique decks.

9 minutes ago, Seastan said:

Yeah the interaction between Fastred and Bilbo is going to be fun to play around, but I'm surprised we got this far into the thread without anyone mentioning the other obvious card to keep enemies in the staging area: Spirit Pippin! 😁

I know you're joking, but I bet that there's a solid Bilbo, SpMerry, SpPippin deck out there.

2 minutes ago, Amicus Draconis said:

I used that as well, though I hoped, there was a way in RingsDB to show rankings. At any rate, while Tactics Éowyn is ranked at #4 in HoB, she has less than 640 decks on RingsDB, compared to Beravor's 680.

Yeah I'm not sure what Beorn does with the numbers after he gets them to determine popularity.

Going just by # of decks, Beravor is in nearly as many decks post-Galadriel as Tactics Beregond.

2 minutes ago, Onidsen said:

I know you're joking, but I bet that there's a solid Bilbo, SpMerry, SpPippin deck out there.

Actually, I was half-serious.

1 minute ago, Seastan said:

Actually, I was half-serious. 

I was thinking this too, because spirit-Pippin has always been another hero that is a huge missed opportunity.

Thematically though, you want Bilbo to work with Dwarves and Gandalf. If I want a thematic deck, I don't want Bilbo and Pippin, I want Bilbo-Gandalf-Thorin. It feels like there should be something there, and I am just not seeing it.

1 minute ago, Seastan said:

Actually, I was half-serious.

Cool! I've actually been playing a lot with spirit Pippin recently, and I don't think he deserves quite as bad a rap as he's gotten. Still probably the worst hero in the game, but not as bad (in the present card pool! When he was released he may have deserved it) as reviews say.

Actually, I think that Shirefolk might give him a significant boost. I'm currently thinking of adding a thematic saga campaign to my current lineup of projects, and I'm thinking about using him there with Sam and Spirit Merry in the first quest.

1 minute ago, Onidsen said:

Cool! I've actually been playing a lot with spirit Pippin recently, and I don't think he deserves quite as bad a rap as he's gotten. Still probably the worst hero in the game, but not as bad (in the present card pool! When he was released he may have deserved it) as reviews say.

Actually, I think that Shirefolk might give him a significant boost. I'm currently thinking of adding a thematic saga campaign to my current lineup of projects, and I'm thinking about using him there with Sam and Spirit Merry in the first quest.

I'm not ready for spirit pippin. Really

3 minutes ago, ColinEdwards said:

I was thinking this too, because spirit-Pippin has always been another hero that is a huge missed opportunity.

Thematically though, you want Bilbo to work with Dwarves and Gandalf. If I want a thematic deck, I don't want Bilbo and Pippin, I want Bilbo-Gandalf-Thorin. It feels like there should be something there, and I am just not seeing it.

At least Bilbo can kill enemies guarding Orcrist and Glamdring while questing. Apart from that they have not much in common.

Beravor is still great and probably even better now than a couple of cycles ago.

Her missed stat with contemporary allies are often not missed at all. I stopped playing ready effect on her since is often better pay the same cost for an ally of 2 willpower or attack. I don't think she is worth the unexpected courage you can play on your killer attacked or wall defender just for her 2 points of stat.

But her ability still rocks and makes many decks far better. Some recent cards like duneadain pipe increase her value even more.

If you need access to lore or repeatable card draw to make your deck better than I can't think of a better options.

9 hours ago, sappidus said:

FYI, I submitted an official query about this and will post when resolved.

Immunity wins! Tilbo can't be used on "Immune to player card effects" enemies; text of the ruling posted here (for ease of searching it out in the future):

24 minutes ago, Amicus Draconis said:

At least Bilbo can kill enemies guarding Orcrist and Glamdring while questing. Apart from that they have not much in common. 

There is a thematic deck that almost creates itself:

Bilbo - Gandalf - Thorin
Glamdring - Sting - Orcrist - Magic Ring
The dwarf allies

For our scenario, "Gandalf" is a captive in Dol-Guldur and Thorin recruits Bilbo to rescue him and following that they learn Golum was a prisoner too and head off in pursuit.

maybe I am thinking about it the wrong way .... but it feels like "That SHOULD work"

31 minutes ago, sappidus said:

Immunity wins! Tilbo can't be used on "Immune to player card effects" enemies; text of the ruling posted here (for ease of searching it out in the future):

A pity, but at least immune cards cannot guard player cards.

15 hours ago, Kjeld said:

It's really ridiculous how Bilbo -- one of the most famous and iconic of all Hobbits -- gets the complete shaft in this game. He's outperformed by all but SpPippin and Fatty! I mean, flippin' Folco Boffin has a 2-2-0-2 stat line, and an incredible utility ability as well! Sometimes I just don't get the LotR LCG design team at all...

Keep in mind that Bilbo is now 111 years old in the events of this game.

7 minutes ago, Wandalf the Gizzard said:

Keep in mind that Bilbo is now 111 years old in the events of this game.

Not that his saga counterpart fared much better as stats went.

1 hour ago, Wandalf the Gizzard said:

Keep in mind that Bilbo is now 111 years old in the events of this game.

I think this is supposed to represent him in the Hobbit timeline though. I mean, it would make little sense to have a young Bilbo running around with Sam and Merry, but then again you can have Thorin and Thorin III in the same deck, same as with the Bard's. I think Caleb just wanted to make a new Bilbo that depicted him in his most iconic role, the protagonist of The Hobbit, and I applaud him for that. He even gave him the Burglar trait.