2 minutes ago, Green Knight said:Vizago, for 2 pts (plus say two Deadman's Switch) you can set up your two gunrunners with cloak, before shifting them over to a third ship (Kavil or whoever).
You now have two well protected quads that are VERY flexible in positioning the round they decloak.
Exactly what I’ve been doing with Palob in a Kavil, Palob, 2 Quad list.
On 12/4/2018 at 9:08 AM, Maui. said:He's using Cikatro Vizago.
...ok, so what does that mean? I know Vizago permits you to swap illicits but can you swap for an illicit that's limited when it was already on another ship? The way you guys are talking it sounds like that's the case which is abusive by my standards. The whole idea is that ONE ship can have a cloaking device, not one ship AT A TIME. The rules may permit it for now, but that's some serious BS.
7 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:...ok, so what does that mean? I know Vizago permits you to swap illicits but can you swap for an illicit that's limited when it was already on another ship? The way you guys are talking it sounds like that's the case which is abusive by my standards. The whole idea is that ONE ship can have a cloaking device, not one ship AT A TIME. The rules may permit it for now, but that's some serious BS.
List building restrictions only matter during the list building stage. Cikatro lets you swap illicits between ships, which lets you get up to all sorts of shenanigans since the list building restrictions are no longer in place. Not only can you "perma-cloak" by removing the cloaking device from the cloaked ship (so it doesn't have to roll to lose the cloak token each turn), you can also do things like put a cloaking device on a large base ship, or a rigged cargo chute on a small base, or otherwise thumb your nose at the rules like a good scum list should.
1 hour ago, Bad Idea Comics said:...ok, so what does that mean? I know Vizago permits you to swap illicits but can you swap for an illicit that's limited when it was already on another ship? The way you guys are talking it sounds like that's the case which is abusive by my standards. The whole idea is that ONE ship can have a cloaking device, not one ship AT A TIME. The rules may permit it for now, but that's some serious BS.
Vizago works differently than in 1e. Where in 1e he let you swap an illicit on a ship with one outside the game, in 2e he swaps illicit upgrades between two friendly ships.
This leads to the following sequence:
>QJ #1 Cloaks
>Vizago swaps the Cloaking Device from QJ 1 with the Deadman Switch on QJ #2
>QJ #2 Cloaks
>Vizago swaps the Cloacking Device fro QJ 2 with the Deadman Switch on Palob (Or other third ship)
1 hour ago, Bad Idea Comics said:...ok, so what does that mean? I know Vizago permits you to swap illicits but can you swap for an illicit that's limited when it was already on another ship? The way you guys are talking it sounds like that's the case which is abusive by my standards. The whole idea is that ONE ship can have a cloaking device, not one ship AT A TIME. The rules may permit it for now, but that's some serious BS.
Not only is legal but it is also FAQed to be legal. Check the last page (P.23) of the rules reference.
3 hours ago, Innese said:Vizago works differently than in 1e. Where in 1e he let you swap an illicit on a ship with one outside the game, in 2e he swaps illicit upgrades between two friendly ships.
This leads to the following sequence:
>QJ #1 Cloaks
>Vizago swaps the Cloaking Device from QJ 1 with the Deadman Switch on QJ #2
>QJ #2 Cloaks
>Vizago swaps the Cloacking Device fro QJ 2 with the Deadman Switch on Palob (Or other third ship)
so with a single CD you can use it one 3 diff ships as long as they have an elicit to swap with it?
1 minute ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:so with a single CD you can use it one 3 diff ships as long as they have an elicit to swap with it?
2 ships (Cloaking Device only has 2 charges). Gets even more fun if you can add Jabba to the mix though. Then it is repeatable.
Innese's swap sequence leaves both of the Quads cloaked with Deadman's Switches and Palob with an empty device.
3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:2 ships (Cloaking Device only has 2 charges). Gets even more fun if you can add Jabba to the mix though. Then it is repeatable.
im liking the idea of two cloaked gunrunners but this only works if u dont roll focus on either cloak roll eh? Adding Jabba for insurance really pushes ur entire list into running a large ship that can support him. Things start getn squishy for points then so u have to decide if thats worth it. def worth testing.
8 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:im liking the idea of two cloaked gunrunners but this only works if u dont roll focus on either cloak roll eh? Adding Jabba for insurance really pushes ur entire list into running a large ship that can support him. Things start getn squishy for points then so u have to decide if thats worth it. def worth testing.
If the card isn't equipped you don't make the check at the beginning of the Planning Phase (the new timing for the Cloaking Device check) so they don't loose the token till you want them to. Cik's transfer is end phase still.
10 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:If the card isn't equipped you don't make the check at the beginning of the Planning Phase (the new timing for the Cloaking Device check) so they don't loose the token till you want them to. Cik's transfer is end phase still.
gotchya. this is pretty cool.
7 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:gotchya. this is pretty cool.
I'm a little surprised it hasn't popped up in tourneys. Though Cloak, Cik and 2 Deadman's Switches is 13 points so the more competitive players might not see the point over a bid or other upgrades.
6 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:I'm a little surprised it hasn't popped up in tourneys. Though Cloak, Cik and 2 Deadman's Switches is 13 points so the more competitive players might not see the point over a bid or other upgrades.
yeah, for that much utility its pretty cheap. iv been wanting to play gunrunners with deadmans switches in a drea swarm but two cloaked is pretty sweet. Using cloak this way i could run something like...
| Jakku Gunrunner — Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug | 28 |
| Cloaking Device | 5 |
| Ship Total: 33 | |
| Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3 | |
| Jakku Gunrunner — Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug | 28 |
| Deadman’s Switch | 2 |
| Ship Total: 30 | |
| Half Points: 15 Threshold: 3 | |
| Palob Godalhi — HWK-290 Light Freighter | 38 |
| Deadman’s Switch | 2 |
| Moldy Crow | 12 |
| Ship Total: 52 | |
| Half Points: 26 Threshold: 3 | |
| Kavil — BTL-A4 Y-Wing | 42 |
| Dorsal Turret | 4 |
| Proton Torpedoes | 9 |
| Han Solo | 4 |
| R4 Astromech | 2 |
| Ship Total: 61 | |
| Half Points: 31 Threshold: 4 | |
| L3-37 — Escape Craft | 22 |
| Tactical Officer | 2 |
| Ship Total: 24 | |
| Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2 | |
9 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:yeah, for that much utility its pretty cheap. iv been wanting to play gunrunners with deadmans switches in a drea swarm but two cloaked is pretty sweet. Using cloak this way i could run something like...
Jakku Gunrunner — Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug 28 Cloaking Device 5 Ship Total: 33 Half Points: 17 Threshold: 3 Jakku Gunrunner — Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug 28 Deadman’s Switch 2 Ship Total: 30 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 3 Palob Godalhi — HWK-290 Light Freighter 38 Deadman’s Switch 2 Moldy Crow 12 Ship Total: 52 Half Points: 26 Threshold: 3 Kavil — BTL-A4 Y-Wing 42 Dorsal Turret 4 Proton Torpedoes 9 Han Solo 4 R4 Astromech 2 Ship Total: 61 Half Points: 31 Threshold: 4 L3-37 — Escape Craft 22 Tactical Officer 2 Ship Total: 24 Half Points: 12 Threshold: 2
And being cloaked doesn't prevent them from taking actions or dropping bombs.
4 green tractor demons.
Edit: you need Cikatro Vizago or it won't work.
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3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:And being cloaked doesn't prevent them from taking actions or dropping bombs.
Edit: you need Cikatro Vizago or it won't work.
^ This.
Gunrunners have tractor as an action, so you can stay cloaked and still tractor.
Combined with their I1 this is amazing... especially if u decloak at the right moment. Gunrunners are normally a bit limited in their movement, but with cloak they suddenly have a much bigger threat range.
I learned this the hard way: got my ship suddenly tractored off-table when I was sure it was doing fine...
This is convinced me that cloak does have a role.
As was mentioned before you can also shift the cloak to a large ship. So if you have say only 1 Gunrunner, Kavil and a Large ship, you can do something similar. I guess you could even keep Ketsu cloaked with tractoring... but meh.
so this could by good tech versus imperial aces? phantoms might be a lil nervous to get in too close vs a cloaked gunrunner
2 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:so this could by good tech versus imperial aces? phantoms might be a lil nervous to get in too close vs a cloaked gunrunner
My Whisper got chucked of the board...
Just now, Green Knight said:My Whisper got chucked of the board...
yikes. thats convinced me this is exactly what i need to combat imperials.i like how its a lil off the radar and not being used in many tournament squads ive seen.
22 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:yikes. thats convinced me this is exactly what i need to combat imperials.i like how its a lil off the radar and not being used in many tournament squads ive seen.
I won't fall for that ploy again, but really cloak + gunrunner ❤️
Actually, I'd think that TIE Phantoms are among the ships that care about Gunrunners the least, as the Quaddie has to correctly guess the direction of the decloak before it can successfully tug a Phantom.
2 hours ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:yikes. thats convinced me this is exactly what i need to combat imperials.i like how its a lil off the radar and not being used in many tournament squads ive seen.
I haven’t lost a single game (7-0 across 2 tournaments, 11-0 total) since I started running the 2 cloaking QJs w/ Kavil & Palob.
6 hours ago, Maui. said:Actually, I'd think that TIE Phantoms are among the ships that care about Gunrunners the least, as the Quaddie has to correctly guess the direction of the decloak before it can successfully tug a Phantom.
play skill is a factor. so is experience. as noted here by others the first time u play against this with phantoms u r going to be the most vulnerable to tactical errors. like any list tho, u can play around its strengths and exploit its weaknesses once u know what they are and have played against it. any edge nomater how small vs imperial aces running whisper is worth considering for a Scum player
For the record I stoped flying my Boba list mentioned earlier and I am flying double Phantoms (Whisper-Echo) with Vermeil.
No scum list with a cloaking device can ever give you the repositioning abilities phantoms do. Cloaking dev is a one time trick in most games, and does not give you the option to auto-cloack again at the end of the turn. Again although whisper is very popular recently because of Vader crew, most people that started using her in 2.0 don't know how to make max out of her abilities. Additionally, if you have consistently flow phantoms from 1.0 you will have probably noticed that the added maneuver on their dial makes Echo arguably the best phantom in the game right now.
Again like any other list being able to prioritize targets and take down early in the game what hurts them most in the late game is what makes the difference when flying them. If you would go against a scum list, Palob has to have the highest bounty on his head if present. The rest would be easy to take down once you ve taken down the guy that can shut down their repositioning ability by stealing their evade.
1 hour ago, tsondaboy said:For the record I stoped flying my Boba list mentioned earlier and I am flying double Phantoms (Whisper-Echo) with Vermeil.
No scum list with a cloaking device can ever give you the repositioning abilities phantoms do. Cloaking dev is a one time trick in most games, and does not give you the option to auto-cloack again at the end of the turn. Again although whisper is very popular recently because of Vader crew, most people that started using her in 2.0 don't know how to make max out of her abilities. Additionally, if you have consistently flow phantoms from 1.0 you will have probably noticed that the added maneuver on their dial makes Echo arguably the best phantom in the game right now.
Again like any other list being able to prioritize targets and take down early in the game what hurts them most in the late game is what makes the difference when flying them. If you would go against a scum list, Palob has to have the highest bounty on his head if present. The rest would be easy to take down once you ve taken down the guy that can shut down their repositioning ability by stealing their evade.
great insight. thanks for sharing this. so if a scum player is flying 2 cloaked gunrunners in tight formation with palob, what do you do then? he knows u want to take out Palob so he is baiting you to come for him. Meanwhile Kavil is rolling 4 dice moded as soon as you slip into range.
I can’t wait to try this list:
Kavil:
Palob Godalhi
Jakku Gunrunner
Jakku Gunrunner
TOTAL POINTS: 196
I only threw Deadman’s Switch on Kavil in the event I want to do a second round of shenanigans and keep Palob perma-cloaked but I’m leaning towards dropping it and going with a 6 point bid.