10 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

For a long time I took the canon seriously. I don't anymore.

Well yeah, why should we when Disney won’t?

On 12/7/2018 at 3:03 AM, TauntaunScout said:

Thanks for the clarification.

And yet they were still around in ROTJ... Why have a simple and consistent approach when retcons and rationalizations are to be made? Thanks, Hollywood!

I can't make out much of the Death Trooper's cards in the pics. Seems like there's an awful lot of them which is nice. I wonder if/when we'll cap out all the grenades for the game. I don't know why, I just like grenades.

I can't help feeling like after snow, sand, space, and scout troopers that death troopers are specialized for deployment to cemeteries and funeral homes though.

I think others have mentioned it, but the troops you mention were only piloting the at-st.

The imperial Army consists of different jobs, as it were, and stormtroopers are the infantry, the foot based troop.

Death troopers are trained to take down vampires and undead, with the former being currently legends still, and the latter being canon thanks to the nightsisters in Clone Wars, obviously. 😜

44 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

I think others have mentioned it, but the troops you mention were only piloting the at-st. 😜

Yeah. And as I mentioned: except when they were sold and packaged for a game with the blessings of Lucasfilm. No one told us it was "legends" back then...

2 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Yeah. And as I mentioned: except when they were sold and packaged for a game with the blessings of Lucasfilm. No one told us it was "legends" back then...

I'm sorry i may be missing something but isn't that the same armor that Veers and mudtroopers wear? So it looks like they are kinda already in the game.

On 12/7/2018 at 3:03 AM, TauntaunScout said:

Thanks for the clarification.

And yet they were still around in ROTJ... Why have a simple and consistent approach when retcons and rationalizations are to be made? Thanks, Hollywood!

I can't make out much of the Death Trooper's cards in the pics. Seems like there's an awful lot of them which is nice. I wonder if/when we'll cap out all the grenades for the game. I don't know why, I just like grenades.

I can't help feeling like after snow, sand, space, and scout troopers that death troopers are specialized for deployment to cemeteries and funeral homes though.

It’s little different from having regular troops and conscripts.

Stormtroopers with all the nice gear are the regular troops, “mudtroopers” are the conscripts.

2 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Yeah. And as I mentioned: except when they were sold and packaged for a game with the blessings of Lucasfilm. No one told us it was "legends" back then...

In the quote of yours, in my previous post, the army troops mentioned as being at Endor, are either piloting AT-ST, or (and I honestly don't remember off hand) standing in formation when the Emperor arrives, and possibly some with Vader’s arrival. They are NEVER seen in another role. What we DO see is Stormtroopers being in the infantry role.

Now here is the thing with The west end game stuff.. there is nothing in them at the time published that says they are “canon” at all either. The writers creating, did many VERY dumb things in my opinion. They were creating things based on their knowledge base (limited or elaborate based on the individual I'm sure) and also going by single lines.

“A legion of my best troops..” = Stormtroopers as elite troops only.

“Many bothans died..”. Means all bothans are spies. Etc.

The latter is a common thing in fantasy and sci-fi, that of an alien species being genetically defined by one trait - Klingons are warriors for example. It isn't particularly well thought out, but works for quick snippets we see in the shows.

WEG is very steeped in nostalgia for many. Much to my chagrin, as I personally feel it was a mediocre system and the amount I hear “but weg did it” on these and even the WotC forums, makes me wish I could round up every existing copy and burn them. Suffice to say I'm not a fan. The only saving grace is that WEG I heard beat out palladium for the RPG rights, so at least there is that.

So.. back to these army troops, I think Solo did a fantastic job of incorporating the (IMO only , stupid and superfluous army trooper) by combinig the old weg lore and the more common stormtroopers are the most common infantry as seen in every videogame, movie, comic and everything besides weg products.

I feel much of this argument is based on the “it was done this way before..” mindset. Just because something was done one way previously doesn't necessarily make it better (remember in much of the world slavery is considered wrong, but it used to be legal. Things change), nor does something being new make it better.

In the case of the mudtrooper/army trooper, Solo found a terrific middle ground. These troops do exist, and are being phased out, and consist of the imperial warmachines dregs. Game wise this will make them a not quite as effective troop as a stormtrooper, which, makes them have the same position and role that weg had in minds, just nowhere near as numerous.

21 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

In the quote of yours, in my previous post, the army troops mentioned as being at Endor, are either piloting AT-ST, or (and I honestly don't remember off hand) standing in formation when the Emperor arrives, and possibly some with Vader’s arrival. They are NEVER seen in another role. What we DO see is Stormtroopers being in the infantry role.

Hence my arrival at the opinion (for many reasons) that they should use Navy Troops instead for adding variety to Legion, and that we should end the thread derailment. But no one seems to care. They just want to keep hammering away at the "army isn't real anymore" thing. This is where I get to feeling like SW is followed like a top-down religion and people get really irritated by any perceived heresies against the approved teachings.

21 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

dumb things

I really don't like using words like that to articulate ideas on forums, it gets out of control quickly. WEG wasn't perfect, nothing is. But for me, the worst of what WEG wrote wasn't as bad as what some novelists were allowed to do around that time (and which remains canon), and not nearly as problematic as details that would be included soon in The Phantom Menace . Hence I stopped worrying about what was and wasn't official. When Disney pushed the reset button, what little care for canon I still had, was deleted.

My opinion on them (army or navy) being a good release choice isn't based on what we used to do, but rather, what we could do with them that is currently impossible (or at least difficult and costs more money) with nothing but assorted varieties of stormtroopers. This is a game inextricably tied to stories and models and they would be very versatile models for telling stories. With Deathtroopers we'll have 4 varieties of stormtrooper spread across 6 products, plus red guards. I don't see why it's so crazy to think something non-stormtrooper would be healthier for the imperial squad next release.

22 hours ago, VadersToothbrush said:

isn't that the same armor that Veers and mudtroopers wear? So it looks like they are kinda already in the game.

Similar helmet, no body armor. They were apparently based on the ROTJ AT-ST drivers. I don't see how they're in the game unless you mean one commander model is in the game. Navy troops would be highly versatile, if we got them then what would be even better than army troops would be a model that could be painted as TIE fighter pilots or ESB AT-AT crewmen!

I'm not terribly concerned about it because if the game lasts long enough, it's ALL going to be made.

On 12/8/2018 at 8:47 AM, VadersToothbrush said:

I'm sorry i may be missing something but isn't that the same armor that Veers and mudtroopers wear? So it looks like they are kinda already in the game.

It's quite different. They have no armor and their helmets are similarly shaped to the Aleraanians.

Fleet troopers are a legit choice. I'd like to see them. We see them in all three of the OT films.

They're in the Detention Block scene in the beginning, they're all over ESB (they even drag Needa's body away) and they're manning the shield Generator controls on the Death Star, there's some in the bunker when the rebels take it, some that show up with the stormtroopers when the emperor's trap is sprung and there's a whole group of them at the feet of the AT-ST outside the bunker (all in black, wider, black helmets rather than celestra grey jumpsuits and eshin grey "veers" helmets. @TauntaunScout is on it with these as a suggestion. I've been expecting them as well.

5 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

We see them in all three of the OT films.

@TauntaunScout

They are at lest as legit as the "Rebel Fleet Troops" from a movie purist perspective, I'd say moreso. And it would be really nice to get 3 corps per faction so a legal army can be created without collecting duplicate things.

Also they can be used for this. Just sayin'.

10 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

Fleet troopers are a legit choice. I'd like to see them. We see them in all three of the OT films.

Just to make sure. By Fleet Troopers you mean the Imperial Navy Troopers, correct?

4 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Also they can be used for this. Just sayin'.

What does that symbol even mean?

On 12/3/2018 at 11:19 AM, LennoxPoodle said:

Jeez, these sculpts are beautiful. I think no character model is as good as Krennic so far.

Except for Han, I'd agree. Krennic is great, but Han is still hands-down my favorite sculpt.

On 12/7/2018 at 9:34 PM, ScummyRebel said:

Well yeah, why should we when Disney won’t?

What do you mean? Disney has been very adamant about curating the canon as they purge the inconsistent old EU and unify everything under a new story management team so that it fits seemlessly and smoothly together.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

What do you mean? Disney has been very adamant about curating the canon as they purge the inconsistent old EU and unify everything under a new story management team so that it fits seemlessly and smoothly together.

Not gonna touch that with a ten foot pole.

1 hour ago, Indy_com said:

What does that symbol even mean?

If anyone knows without looking it up (honor system) I'll mail them free legion stuff.

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, TauntaunScout said:

If anyone knows without looking it up (honor system) I'll mail them free legion stuff.

I think it's more fun to make up guesses.

I'm going with The Black 69ers , a renegade group of former Imperial recruits who jumped ship and became outlaw guns-for-hire!!

On 12/11/2018 at 6:49 PM, TauntaunScout said:

If anyone knows without looking it up (honor system) I'll mail them free legion stuff.

it means the image no longer exists or is unavailable.

it's actually multiple white symbols on a black square.

Did I win?

3 hours ago, Geressen said:

it means the image no longer exists or is unavailable.

Whoops.

imperial intelligence or Imperial Security Bureu is my guess.

I think fleet troopers would fit in with ISB.

or its the coruscnt 69 sports team. they were going to play finals against Alderaan when tht terrible mining accident happened. but that championship was theirs.

On 12/15/2018 at 9:46 PM, Geressen said:

imperial intelligence or Imperial Security Bureu is my guess.

Close! I think there is no interest in this so I'll end it. It's the Santhe corporatation's private security forces. It was a repaint of Imperial Navy troops that, I think, never existed outside of SW miniatures! Later it was adapted out of the wargame and into RPG sourcebooks and such. That street usually only goes the other way, which made them unusual.

1 minute ago, TauntaunScout said:

Close! I think there is no interest in this so I'll end it. It's the Santhe corporatation's private security forces. It was a repaint of Imperial Navy troops that, I think, never existed outside of SW miniatures! Later it was adapted out of the wargame and into RPG sourcebooks and such. That street usually only goes the other way, which made them unusual.

never heard of em.

3 hours ago, Geressen said:

never heard of em.

They are obscure. Unless you're an old WEG gamer, or a very dedicated SW miniature gaming hobbyist who researches all the roots and branches of this endeavor.

1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

They are obscure. Unless you're an old WEG  gamer

It's just hard for me to remember things that came out when I was -4 years old.

never got into too much WotC stuff, might change for D&D sometimes.

11 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Close! I think there is no interest in this so I'll end it. It's the Santhe corporatation's private security forces. It was a repaint of Imperial Navy troops that, I think, never existed outside of SW miniatures! Later it was adapted out of the wargame and into RPG sourcebooks and such. That street usually only goes the other way, which made them unusual.

Dammit, i got here too late. I actually knew that! So close to free legion stuff.

You guys are all forgetting anout the medic in personel expansions. Sure death troopers are expensive but they are strong. You could have a stormtrooper unit with medic hanging not far behind death troopers to heal them if necesery and that healing would really be efficient (at least more tuan healjng regular stormies) and all of the sudden thise scary troopers your opponent sacriviced so many resources to damage are back and ready to kick some more . Also about that fleet trooper comparison. Fleets are highly spevialised close range unit and in battlefield scenario death troopers would deal damage to them before fleets have any chance to return fire and then with 4v4 scenario deaths would win just because they tank more. Also with krennic in list one of those squads have always a free order and that makes them better than scouts.

6 hours ago, Warlordus said:

You guys are all forgetting anout the medic in personel expansions. Sure death troopers are expensive but they are strong. You could have a stormtrooper unit with medic hanging not far behind death troopers to heal them if necesery and that healing would really be efficient (at least more tuan healjng regular stormies) and all of the sudden thise scary troopers your opponent sacriviced so many resources to damage are back and ready to kick some more . Also about that fleet trooper comparison. Fleets are highly spevialised close range unit and in battlefield scenario death troopers would deal damage to them before fleets have any chance to return fire and then with 4v4 scenario deaths would win just because they tank more. Also with krennic in list one of those squads have always a free order and that makes them better than scouts.

1. The same argument with medics goes both ways and that unit of fleets could easily also have a medic built in it that can heal it.

2. Deathtroopers can take more hits, but pierce ridiculously good to the point I consider it overpowered. That extra toughness isn't gonna help against it. In a 5v4 scenario where the deathtroopers have their heavy and the fleets have 3+1 scattergun, that fleet group on average will put out 3.91 damage on the attack. Death troopers save 66% of the time so they will save on average 2.58 hits. I don't know what pierce does specifically to odds, but I do know that it will drop that save down to at least 1.58 if not lower. That attack removes 2-3 deathtroopers from the pool leaving you with the heavy and the leader. Assuming that the heavy is identical to the dlt and the leader will use his built in 2 white weapon, that's 2.5 damage on average. Fleets save 33% of the time which brings the damage to 1.68, killing 1-2 fleets. I always assumed worst case with both units so the fleets are left with unit leader and heavy vs unit leader on deaths and their heavy. It's gonna come down to who activates first, but the fleets already deal on average more damage than the deathtroopers can take once pierce is taken into account. Death troopers go first and the fleets have a real shot at saving the leader. Victory fleets even when fleets are down one man. Throw in medics, and the victory for them is even better since the medic will be built into the squad of fleets.

3. Krennic needs to be within range 2 to give that free order and when that order is really gonna matter is when deathtroopers are in firing range of a target they want to hit. Krennic is the least survivable named commander to date, if he is that close to the fight, he's gonna die. Also see paragraph up above for an even worse outcome for deathtroopers vs scout troopers as the scouts roll better and WILL have heavy cover