I was just watching the First Earth Stream of the French Nationals. I noticed at the beginning of one of the games, a tournament official took both players phones (I'm guessing to prevent cheating)
I've never seen this in the US. Is this common in Europe or elsewhere? Does anyone have any background on this?
Yep, it's to prevent cheating and players on stream from gaining access to outside information.
I don't know of specific incidents, but I recall the casters at a UK event (Nerf Herder) talking about how it'd be pretty easy to set up Vassal on a computer, get the angles and placements right, and then map out all the positions for your maneuvers.
One of the latest iphone updates also has a reasonably accurate measuring app, using your camera.
9 minutes ago, It’s One Of Ours said:One of the latest iphone updates also has a reasonably accurate measuring app, using your camera.
"reasonably".... I think it measures to the nearest half an inch
3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:"reasonably".... I think it measures to the nearest half an inch
That is pretty dang accurate for what we're doing. Half a 1 straight I think.
Well if it is already being streamed (ie Gold Squadron Podcast), then there really is no reason to have other phones recording it.
I suspect the biggest reason is so that the player’s buddy who is watching the stream can’t hurry and text him “hey he just dialed in such-and-such move. If you do so-and-so then you can block/arc-dodge him.” Stuff like that. I e never heard of it happening, but an ounce of prevention and all of that.
I heard about a player who received a sms from a stream watcher to notice a mistake. I was very surprised to give my phone at french nats because what about the others 178 players in direct contact with public ?
To be honest, if some streamer would ask me to give him my phone, I would not want that and ask him to stop streaming me immediately.
Strange enough that people even consider someone else cheating with his phone ... what is this?
24 minutes ago, NABLA_OPERATOR said:To be honest, if some streamer would ask me to give him my phone, I would not want that and ask him to stop streaming me immediately.
Strange enough that people even consider someone else cheating with his phone ... what is this?
People cheat, it happens. I'd rather a tiny prevention measure such as no smart phones then nothing.
27 minutes ago, NABLA_OPERATOR said:To be honest, if some streamer would ask me to give him my phone, I would not want that and ask him to stop streaming me immediately.
Strange enough that people even consider someone else cheating with his phone ... what is this?
I would think that if you’re truly uncomfortable giving a stranger your phone, there could always be some sort of compromise. Put your phone in a backpack that you can’t access during the match or something like that. Just don’t bring your phone.
Idk, there are options.
I was playing on stream at Nerf Herder, and if I'd looked at my phone I'd have seen Paul Heaver telling me what move to dial in.
2 minutes ago, SOTL said:I was playing on stream at Nerf Herder, and if I'd looked at my phone I'd have seen Paul Heaver telling me what move to dial in.
Wait, what?
The how-many-times world champion doesn’t think it unwise to text somebody suggestions during their game?
23 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:Wait, what?
The how-many-times world champion doesn’t think it unwise to text somebody suggestions during their game?
Paul knows better than to text, he just calls 
47 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:Wait, what?
The how-many-times world champion doesn’t think it unwise to text somebody suggestions during their game?
On the twitch chat. Removing phones makes it easy to police. Without it I could easily check and see what everyone is saying I should do.
1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:I would think that if you’re truly uncomfortable giving a stranger your phone, there could always be some sort of compromise. Put your phone in a backpack that you can’t access during the match or something like that. Just don’t bring your phone.
Idk, there are options.
I would be extremely uncomfortable giving my phone to someone I didn't know - it's a quite expensive device that could be easily lost, stolen or accidentally damaged. I also don't think that "don't bring your phone" is in any way a realistic option these days.
Realistically, what are the odds of someone cheating? You need to weigh that up against any preventative measures you might be taking. If people are aiming to cheat, they're vastly more likely to do it via weighted dice, slightly manipulated templates, or stacked damage decks than relying on getting on stream and then having a buddy maybe be able to make out tiny details like what move has been dialled in and text that across in a reasonable timeframe. If you're worried about that kind of thing, it should be pretty easy to set a 30 second delay on a stream that would completely counter any shenanigans like that.
Likewise, I'd assume any measurement apps would be really quite obvious if they were being used. You can get some impressive results from smartphone apps, but they're far from instant. Someone angling there camera at the table then waiting for the app to catch up would be less than subtle...
Edited by Jarval4 minutes ago, SOTL said:On the twitch chat. Removing phones makes it easy to police. Without it I could easily check and see what everyone is saying I should do.
Pop in a 30 second to 1 minute broadcast delay on the stream, and problem solved.
10 minutes maybe. You need to cover over the whole end of one turn and override the whole of the next planning phase.
Or take people's phones away from them, which is fine.
18 minutes ago, SOTL said:10 minutes maybe. You need to cover over the whole end of one turn and override the whole of the next planning phase.
Or take people's phones away from them, which is fine.
I'm not sure that I'd particularly trust a Twitch chat's opinion of what I should do in a game... 
As I said above, I'd be *deeply* unhappy about anyone wanting to take my phone away. A simple rule of "don't use your phone at the streaming table" should suffice. I'm a massive supporter of streamed X-Wing (having done a fair amount of it at my FLGS), but someone wanting to take my phone would absolutely stop me from being willing to go on stream.
As I've said above, realistically what is the risk of people having their phone while playing at the stream table when compared to the other myriad ways people might choose to cheat if they want to?
I get what people saying about their phones,
Need to implement a 'NO PHONES OUT AT THE TABLE', they stay in pockets or bags. You shouldn't be on your phone anyway,
31 minutes ago, Jarval said:I'm not sure that I'd particularly trust a Twitch chat's opinion of what I should do in a game...
Depends on whether it's Paul Heaver commenting in the chat, no?
I lost my semifinal. If I'd had my phone, and looked at it, I would certainly have won.
22 minutes ago, Sk3tch said:I get what people saying about their phones,
Need to implement a 'NO PHONES OUT AT THE TABLE', they stay in pockets or bags. You shouldn't be on your phone anyway,
This I'd be fine with - my phone staying in my pocket for the game isn't an issue, I'm just not at all keen on the idea of having to hand it over to someone else just to play on stream.
Its a reasonable request given how awesome Tech is. Seems you could very easily have someone feeding info through text to speech or even a phone call when someone thinks you're listening to music. Even an image of a right turn arrow flashing across your notification screen might turn a game if you weren't otherwise thinking of that.
3 hours ago, Sk3tch said:I get what people saying about their phones,
Need to implement a 'NO PHONES OUT AT THE TABLE', they stay in pockets or bags. You shouldn't be on your phone anyway,
So you run a morse code app on your phone so your at-home support team can buzz your leg with the opponent's move.
To be fair, this isn't anything new. There was an incident at the 2015 Gencon when a player's friend was standing behind his opponent, and the player continued checking his phone throughout the game. It was suspected that the player was receiving texts about what what move the opponent had just dialed in, sent from his friend standing behind the opponent.
Basically be suspicious of people on their phones a bunch during a game if you have any reason to think they've got friends watching either in-person or on-stream. That said, you can't expect people to surrender their phones or not check them at all. Many of us have lives far more important than an X-Wing tournament, and if a child or spouse or employer needs us for an emergency, we need to be able to respond quickly. I've had to drop from an Armada tourney mid-match to go help with a family emergency. If the choice is surrender your phone or don't play on stream, you can bet I'd request to play off-stream. I don't see the point of playing on stream anyways... all you do is open yourself up to endless scrutiny from the Monday Morning Quarterbacks, risk getting accused of cheating by the community witch-hunters if you have a string of unusually warm dice or accidentally forget a trigger, and all to just generate free content for the streamers to then benefit from and commodify in a variety of ways without any compensation for you.