So the Quick Build entries for Kullbee Sperado and Leevan Tenza in the .pdf on FFG's website appear to be way underpriced. Both of them are priced at 2 Threat. This doesn't seem right. First, when you add up the points values, they appear to come to 75 and 71, respectively. That's closer to what you normally see for ships worth 3 Threat. Example: Both Porkins and Horton come in at 3 Threat and would cost 72 and 63 points, respectively. Most of the the 2 Threat X-wings clock in around the 50-point mark.

I've used these guys in a couple of quick build games (both escalation and regular) and these guys seem way too good for 2 threat. They have good pretty good abilities and are loaded to the gills with all sorts of goodies. Consider any of the other 2-Threat X-Wings, and there's a huge disparity in points and power.

Has there been an errata to this that I missed?

Best way to handle Quick Build is to treat it like the super-casual format it is and try not to think about it too hard. There's a 70+ point Phantom listed as 2-threat in the Imperial one, too.

Most quick builds have more than 25 points per threat, but generally they aren't fully optimised builds (R2 + dead man) so it doesn't matter. There are some woefully overcosted builds as well (Lothal rebel). FFG have errata'd exactly one problem build, which was two threat for two gunrunners (it is now 3) but they don't seem interested in doing more than that.

I understand that the Quick Builds are casual, and that many of them aren't anywhere near fully optimized, but the examples I brought up in the OP are SO much better than all of the other 2-Threat X-Wings that I can scarcely imagine why anybody would play anything other than Kullbee and Leevan if they're looking for a 2 Threat ship. All the bells and whistles (Fun abilities, elites, Afterburners, Dead Man's, and R2!) make them very fun to play. However, I would be concerned that I'm getting a bit too much of an advantage when playing against "normal" powered ships at that threat level.

Unless they go back and revise the threat costs (which they should imo), I think the solution is to probably have a gentleman's agreement with other players that they should be considered 3 Threat... or 2 only if you are also playing with one of the other Quick Builds that is overpriced (Cassian U-Wing is a bit underwhelming, for example).

On a points/threat basis they're really good but I think its easy to overvalue a lot of those toys, and they also don't create many internal squad synergies.

We played Quick Build at the weekend and it seemed to be more about finding synergetic pairings than it was just picking three 'best ships' and running them together (successful lists had Captain Jonus rerolls, or a Dengar/Manaroo pairing for example). If you do the maths analysis of points per threat a lot of the time it's on;y telling you that points per threat is a bad way of trying to evaluate squadbuilding.

FWIW, if I'd run Rebels I was probably going to run Kullbee as my 3rd ship, but it's because I wasn't happy with the synergies within that squad that I ultimately went Imperial.

Points per Threat by Pilot

The ships up the far right of 'points per threat' at Kullbee, Leevan, and the Sigma Squadron Ace in the Phantom.

3 hours ago, SOTL said:

Points per Threat by Pilot

The ships up the far right of 'points per threat' at Kullbee, Leevan, and the Sigma Squadron Ace in the Phantom.

What are the outliers on the low side?

Uh. I know Viktor Hel is down there. I think it's like Sarco Plank and Unkar Plutt too.

Sarco, Viktor and Unkar sound right. Rebel Han and the Lothal rebel are pretty low as well

Well, that graph shows exactly how crazy those pilots are compared to the rest of the pack. If they were 3 Threat they'd be right in the middle of the pack.

I understand that points/threat alone do not translate into raw power, especially when you are considering squad synergy. I understand that putting a really expensive upgrade (or three) on a ship that can't squeeze every last drop out of it will result in a ship that is stronger on paper than it is in practice. And yet I still maintain that Leevan and Kullbee are overpriced. The difference is just that severe, as you can see by that chart.

Look at the Cavern Angels Zealot w/R2 and Deadman's. The Zealot has no synergistic abilities (in fact it has none at all) and it's Initiative 1. Why does this have the same threat as something that's HALF AGAIN more points? The 2-Threat X-Wings that ARE synergistic are Garven, Biggs, and Edrio. Garven and Biggs are almost naked. Edrio's highly synergistic but also highly selective about who he can fly with to gain any value from his ability whatsoever. He basically needs his brother or somebody with Coordinate who moves before him.

I really do think it's a typo.

20 minutes ago, MikeEvans said:

I really do think it's a typo.

So do I, and same goes for the pilots who are woefully overcosted. I recommend you bring it up with FFG (on twitter, or through the rules question contact form, or preferably both) because that's the only way anything is getting done.

In the meantime, the underpriced pilots aren't absurdly powerful so it's not too much of a problem. The real losers are the overcosted ones on the bottom end that will simply never see play.

Good idea. I'll send them a message about it through the rules question contact form. I don't use Twitter, unfortunately.

Braylen Stramm's quick build made me so sad. No advanced sensors and not even a useful cannon

Just don't get hung up on the maths of points value/threat.

The highest rated Scum pilot for that is Latts Razzi (32pts per threat) but that's coming from Boba Fett crew (bad), Bossk gunner (lame), Dengar gunner (eh), Feedback Array (uh? with all those gunners?) and Static Discharge Vanes (on a big ship). So you've got like 30pts of upgrades and you're lucky to get 10pts of value out of them.

The reason I haven't shared the league tables is because I think lazy people would just use it to make bad squads and do badly with them. The joy of quick build is searching through the wacky impossible builds and having fun flying something you WANT to fly.

Look, there's Heff Tobber in a U-Wing with an Ion Cannon Turret AND NO ROTATE ARC ACTION. He's just got a monkey hanging out the window with a machine gun. That's awesome. Fly that! Fly the crazy Falcon. Fly Corran. Fly Cartel Spacers and Constable Zuvio.

Don't fly Latts Razzi just because a spreadsheet told you it was winningest.

Quick nitpick: The Heff Tobber U-Wing build can indeed rotate its turret, because the ion cannon turret upgrade includes a "rotate arc" action on it. Incidentally, that is my favorite quick build card because I love the thematics, and I will play it regardless of its threat level.

I don't think anybody here is obsessed with try-harding at quick build games, and I think everybody understands that points cost does not necessarily equal power, due to many factors. We just think that a couple of the builds are such outliers in terms of both power AND points that there must have been a mistake when they were released.

2 hours ago, MikeEvans said:

I don't think anybody here is obsessed with try-harding at quick build games, and I think everybody understands that points cost does not necessarily equal power, due to many factors. We just think that a couple of the builds are such outliers in terms of both power AND points that there must have been a mistake when they were released.

My post was in part a response to the people who have been PMing me for the secret sauce on what to fly!

Wow, to this day i didn’t know there was actually anyone playing this format. I thought this was just if you want to play before the points of a ship become available in the app or reference...

On all new ships i bought, the first thing i did was throw these cards away... should i have kept them??

49 minutes ago, ForceM said:

Wow, to this day i didn’t know there was actually anyone playing this format. I thought this was just if you want to play before the points of a ship become available in the app or reference...

On all new ships i bought, the first thing i did was throw these cards away... should i have kept them??

For every store that bought a Deluxe Wave Kit, they have to hold a quick build event, a themed event, and their Wave Championship.

So, yes quick build events will be around. The cards themselves are not necessary since there are online lists and most of the ships don't have any physical cards.

On 12/3/2018 at 11:33 AM, SOTL said:

Points per Threat by Pilot

The ships up the far right of 'points per threat' at Kullbee, Leevan, and the Sigma Squadron Ace in the Phantom.

This is really interesting, thanks! Any chance you don't mind posting the raw builds/prices that got you there?

3 hours ago, ForceM said:

Wow, to this day i didn’t know there was actually anyone playing this format. I thought this was just if you want to play before the points of a ship become available in the app or reference...

On all new ships i bought, the first thing i did was throw these cards away... should i have kept them??

It's the actual best format. For real.

16 hours ago, SOTL said:

Look, there's Heff Tobber in a U-Wing with an Ion Cannon Turret AND NO ROTATE ARC ACTION

The Ion Cannon Turret card adds a white Rotate action, just saying. But I get your point.

Threat isn't exactly about points, because many of the ships don't spend their points in optimal ways.

Oh and yeah, Quick Build is Best Build.

Quick build is a great format, and lots of fun. I'm sad that so many people are completely uninterested in it

When they revised the Quick Build list, they bumped Leevan and Kulbee up to their proper threat level of 3, even though some of their upgrades (R2 and Afterburners) were actually lowered in points cost. I'd say this is proof that the original threat level of 2 was either a typo or a mistake.

I am vindicated!!!