I loved my old 1e f/o swarm, they were simple, quite strong and swift and they had surprising synergy between them. So let's try the new TIE f/o's.

What do you think about this list? It's build around Static's ability to turn all hits into crits and to turn Scorch always out of the stress...

(35) "Scorch"
(4) Juke
(5) Targeting Synchronizer
(2) Electronic Baffle
Points 46

(35) "Static"
(1) Crack Shot
(5) Pattern Analyzer
Points 41

(32) "Muse"
(4) Juke
(5) Targeting Synchronizer
Points 41

(28) Zeta Squadron Pilot
(5) Targeting Synchronizer
Points 33

(28) Zeta Squadron Pilot
(5) Targeting Synchronizer
Points 33

Total points: 194

I think you may have misunderstood what Targetting Synchroniser does.

14 minutes ago, Sonikgav said:

I think you may have misunderstood what Targetting Synchronised does.

Probably drawing from how it worked in 1.0 so missed that it doesn't permit the "shared" Lock to be spent anymore.

Targeting Synchronizer: Requires the ship to have the Lock action. Ability wording: While a friendly ship at range 1-2 performs an attack against a target you have locked, that ship ignores the Lock attack requirement.

Basically it lets one ship lock a target and other ships using ordnance to not need a lock of their own.

Useful if you're using a Lot of Low Initiative alpha strike Ordnance, otherwise, not so much.

21 hours ago, Sonikgav said:

I think you may have misunderstood what Targetting Synchroniser does.

It seems so... Let's get to squad builder again

"Null" (31)
Squad Leader (4)
Biohexacrypt Codes (1)
Shield Upgrade (8) / Stealth Device (8)

"Static" (35)
Crack Shot (1)
Pattern Analyzer (5)

"Scorch" (35)
Juke (4)
Electronic Baffle (2)

"Muse" (32)
Juke (4)

Lieutenant Rivas (30)

Total: 192

https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v5!s!290:131,202,165:;264:116,206,-1:;262:123,-1,106:;235:123,-1,-1:;265:-1,-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

I came up with this variant on your team, what do you think? Null replaces one of the generics and plays support. Lock on to Static T1, and then you use Null's I7 Coordinate to ensure Static engages with Focus + Target Lock. Then just keep refreshing Static's TL as long as Static is alive, then move on to giving Scorch and Muse Target Locks (atleast while Rivas is alive). Shield Upgrade is for trying to help Null stay at I7 as long as possible. Rivas replaces the other generic and capitalizes on his pilot ability for efficiency. When an enemy receives a red or orange token at range 1-2 (which will happen when you Target Lock), he can get a free lock on that ship for double mods.

Options to drop : Shield Upgrade / Stealth Device due to price, Electronic Baffle is a good idea on Scorch but potentially a little redundant with Muse around, Jukes could be dropped to cheaper EPTs like Predator, Crack Shot or Fanatical.
Options to add :
- Electronic Baffle + Fanatical on Scorch: If you're thinking you'll end up using Baffle then Fanatical is a cheaper alternative to Juke that synergizes with the fact you're stripping your shield. Also an option on your fifth FO if you replace Rivas with an EPT pilot.
- Advanced Optics: Forcing a hit result on blanks could up the firepower of the list a little (priority should be Rivas > Scorch > Muse). Bad on Null and Static, Null's job is to support with Coordinate and Static is already forcing crits (plus Pattern Analyzer is more important for.
- Stealth Device / Shield Upgrade / Hull Upgrade: If there's points to spare, might as well.
Rivas Alternatives : Rivas is efficient, but is the most replaceable on this list if you want to explore other Pilot options, and the named ones all look perfectly fine.
- TN-3465: Add an HP Upgrade and chew her up and spit her out for front loaded attacks, also a way to mod Null's dice.
- Longshot: Range 3 bonus dice + EPT slot for just 3 more points is good if you want all 5 FOs to have EPTs. If points are too tight, Omega Squadron Ace is 2pts cheaper.
- Commander Malarus: Self sufficient I5 Ace, though probably least attractive on this list since she'd require a bid to compete with other aces.
- Midnight: Provides an I6 Ace and a secondary target for Null's coordinates.
- Zeta Squadron Survivor (with SFG): Tanky 3 dice primary for more firepower, and should mostly be able to stay in formation if needed.
- Quickdraw (without SFG): Might seem like blasphemy, but Gunnerless Quickdraw is an alternative to Midnight as an I6 ace for just 1pt more. Probably worse due to 1 less green dice and Midnight's ability, but the rear arc, possible bonus attacks and +2 Shields making her less reliant on green dice is something.
- Quickdraw (with SFG): Drop Shield Upgrade on Null and you can squeeze in SFG Quickdraw by dropping Scorch or Muse instead of Rivas. Double modded Static + Scorch + SFG Quickdraw is quite a bit of firepower, but leaves you with little bid or space for upgrades. Keeping Muse over Scorch is a bit less powerful but leaves more options open and provides stress removal, which should be important considering Null's Red coordinate.

I think Biohexacrypt/Leader Null is a great buy - you really, really need a free action from somewhere to make Static pop, and Null gets it at Initiative 7 from anywhere on the map (you can still co-ordinate anyone else normally if you really want to).

Because Null can stay well out of threat zone, I think toughness-boosting mods are probably a waste. By comparison, Static is going to want to go in close to get the bonus range 1 dice (since it's an automatic crit) and hence thicker shields are a good call there. Crack Shot is a good call since it's as close to an "extra extra" die at range 1 as you can get.

I think Null is probably best in a list with both Omega veterans - you then have two people who really benefit from bonus actions.

Wau, this seems like extraordinary list you have posted here!

There could be a problem with PS's, as there are multiple different of them and to properly fly all of them could be tricky, especially if they are flown in a formation. Nevertheless, it seems that formation is not too necesserly, only in case of Scorch and Muse.

To Null and his TL of Static - it still has to stay in range with Static to repeatedly lock him, hasn't he? So he should have that Shield upgrade in any case to make sure he stays in the game longer, as I think...

9 hours ago, Enigami said:

which  should be important considering Null's Red coordina  te. 

How does Null have a red coordinate? Biohex offers way to change how coordinate is done but it does not add the action to that ship’s bar.

Squad Leader Talent adds a red coordinate action to Null

Initiatives are somewhat of a problem, yes. You could go with Backdraft over Rivas for I2/I4x3/I7, or get I2x2/I4x2/I7 with the TIE/sf generic or TN-3465. Since bids probably don't mean much without I5/I6, going for shields on both Null and Static is probably a good idea if you're going with Rivas or TN.

And yes, Target Lock unfortunately gets spent when you use the biohexacrypt codes, so Null only has one use of Range 3+ coordinate and thus will need to be near Static.

So, I was finally able to try the F/O swarm and I'm quite dissapointed with the lack of firepower on Static - 2-3 dices seems not too much for such a complicate cooperation with Null. It's probably not possible to add some more dices as it was possible in the 1ed, is it? Because it seems to me that maybe there are better aces than Static to replace him...

13 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

So, I was finally able to try the F/O swarm and I'm quite dissapointed with the lack of firepower on Static - 2-3 dices seems not too much for such a complicate cooperation with Null. It's probably not possible to add some more dices as it was possible in the 1ed, is it? Because it seems to me that maybe there are better aces than Static to replace him...

This was exactly my thought when I saw the ability hadn't changed. Omega Ace worked because (old style) Advanced Optics and Opportunist/Swarm Leader were a thing.

Now, you need someone else's help to get target lock & focus at the same time, and you're limited to 2 dice (3 at the outside). Assuming 1 damage is dodged, blocked, redirected or splashes on a shield token, and you've got a single critical. Not bad, but nothing to write home about.

To make matters worse, throwing TN-3465 into the squad and getting her in close (which is where a TIE/fo naturally wants to be) lets anyone in the squad turn a hit into a crit on spec, and at 4 points less than static - meaning instead of Pattern Analyser Static you could have shield upgrade TN-3465, letting you trigger her ability twice before you're taking face-up damage cards.

Static might work in conjunction with Kylo Ren, just because I'll show you the dark side dramatically increases the value of a reliable critical. But since they've given him the ability to carry torpedoes, which deliver an automatic critical and a whole bundle of normal damage to help it get through, it's not really needed there either.

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

This was exactly my thought when I saw the ability hadn't changed. Omega Ace worked because (old style) Advanced Optics and Opportunist/Swarm Leader were a thing.

Exactly, 5 dices were something heavy for oponent to count with, but this version is... well, not useless, but definitely nothing to use it like a hammer in the face, like before... I'd probably replace it with something else, maybe Midnight, or Longshot...

11 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

Exactly, 5 dices were something heavy for oponent to count with, but this version is... well, not useless, but definitely nothing to use it like a hammer in the face, like before... I'd probably replace it with something else, maybe Midnight, or Longshot...

You can't go wrong with Midnight. Longshot is cheap, but there's a reason - yes, Longshot gets a 3-dice primary at range 3, but a range 3 primary shot is nothing to write home about since the enemy is getting a bonus green die too.

Suggestion:

• Midnight
  • Fanatical
  • Hull Upgrade
• Scorch
  • Fanatical
  • Hull Upgrade
• Muse
  • Squad Leader
  • Pattern Analyser
• Lieutenant Rivas
• TN-3465

Gives you 5 TIE fighters, two of them are half-decent combatants, a reliable squad leader to co-ordinate every turn without needing to worry too much about the stress, a cheap mini-ace who gets free target locks, and TN-3465 to act as a blocker and to turn regular hits into criticals on something more valuable than she is.

40 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Suggestion:

• Midnight
  • Fanatical
  • Hull Upgrade
• Scorch
  • Fanatical
  • Hull Upgrade
• Muse
  • Squad Leader
  • Pattern Analyser
• Lieutenant Rivas
• TN-3465

Seems promising! I need to try it ASAP Especially that combo on Muse is interesting, however I'm not sure if her low PS wouldn't be a problem... but that's also problem of damage Null, I suppose....

Longshots ability is a problem, I know, but maybe with a Juke it could do something useful. Or, at least, it can harass from beyond, to let opponent be always under fire.

That came up my mind - to fly those TIE's in couples and have one behind. Null+Midnight and Scorch+Muse, while Longshots will be shooting through asteroid field with 4 dices...

(31) " Null "

(4) Squad Leader

(1) Biohexacrypt Codes

Points 36

(35) " Scorch "

(2) Electronic Baffle

(2) Fanatical

(4) Advanced Optics

Points 43

(32) " Muse "

(4) Juke

Points 36

(44) " Midnight "

(2) Fanatical

(4) Advanced Optics

Points 50

(33) " Longshot "

(1) Trick Shot

Points 34

Total points: 199

Edit: maybe switch Juke for SqLead on Muse, to ensure Scorch to have fully tl/fo modified shot?

And I'm always wondering if its better to have Juke or Fanatical+AdvS...

There's just variant with SquaL on Muse and shielded Null to keep his high PS as long as possible...

(31) " Null "

(8) Shield Upgrade

Points 39

(35) " Scorch "

(2) Fanatical

(4) Advanced Optics

Points 41

(32) " Muse "

(4) Squad Leader

Points 36

(44) " Midnight "

(2) Fanatical

(4) Advanced Optics

Points 50

(33) " Longshot "

(1) Trick Shot

Points 34

Total points: 200

19 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

(33) " Longshot "

(1) Trick Shot

I think that's possibly the best use for him; cheap and expendable, but enough of a lurking threat that you can't ignore him. That still means you're throwing 4 red dice versus 4 green dice (if shooting at an agility 2 target), but the bigger the stack of dice, the more the tyranny of numbers should come into play and the slight advantage of red over green should work in your favour. This way, Longshot can fly slow, and lurk in the centre of the board (or wherever the densest asteroids are), whilst the other wingman pairs actively go after the enemy.

19 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

(44) " Midnight "

(2) Fanatical

(4) Advanced Optics

Looks good, but then that is 50 points. My issue with Advanced Optics is that once fanatical is triggering, it's because your shield is gone - meaning I'd frankly rather be evading every turn to try and keep Midnight alive longer, or rolling at I6 to avoid arcs of fire - and both of those are free options

19 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

(35) " Scorch "

(2) Electronic Baffle

(2) Fanatical

(4) Advanced Optics

Electronic Baffle gives you an option if you absolutely positively must burn off a stress without limiting yourself to a blue move and without using muse's ability. I can't see it coming up often when a TIE/fo is only 3 hull but it's not like it's expensive. It's also - pleasingly - a way to self-trigger fanatical without facing the concentrated enemy attention that would probably splat Scorch in one shooting phase.

Here, I can see advanced optics being of use, but again, I can see just using your action to either evade or lock being perfectly serviceable. He is lower initiative than Midnight, though, and with 3-dice attacks, the fanatical/optics combination is much more valuable, so it's probably more justified than it is on Omega Leader.

19 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

(32) " Muse "

(4) Juke

Um.

Juke....is so so. It's great on pilots who get free evade tokens (because they can trigger it without an action), or high initiative pilots (since they can shoot before anyone forces them to spend the evade defensively). Muse....is neither. Under the circumstances, you might as well take a focus and have some balanced offence/defence for less points. Plus, you're not actually using her ability to remove stress (unless flying buddy-buddy to scorch, I guess).

13 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

Edit: maybe switch Juke for SqLead on Muse, to ensure Scorch to have fully tl/fo modified shot?

Squad Leader is limited to one copy in your squad, so if Muse takes it (benefiting from clearing off the stress from the red action for free) you can't also take it on Null for I7 co-ordinating.

19 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

(31) " Null "

(4) Squad Leader

(1) Biohexacrypt Codes

Nice and simple. Lock either Midnight or Scorch turn 1, and play support buddy as required through the game.

13 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

And I'm always wondering if its better to have Juke or Fanatical+AdvS...

I would say fanatical/advanced optics. The balance of value between Juke and a focus token if you're not being shot at is questionable at best, and that goes double if someone pegs an I5 or I6 torpedo at you and you have to spend your evade before you engage.

Honestly, I think that fanatical/electronic baffle combination is a very nice one. An Omega Squadron Ace so equipped clocks in at a very affordable 35 points

• Midnight
  • Fanatical
  • Pattern Analyser
• Scorch
  • Fanatical
  • Advanced Optics
  • Electronic Baffle
• Omega Squadron Ace
  • Fanatical
  • Electronic Baffle
• Omega Squadron Ace
  • Fanatical
  • Electronic Baffle
• Omega Squadron Ace
  • Fanatical
  • Electronic Baffle

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• Midnight
  • Fanatical
  • Pattern Analyser
• Scorch
  • Fanatical
  • Advanced Optics
  • Electronic Baffle
• Omega Squadron Ace
  • Fanatical
  • Electronic Baffle
• Omega Squadron Ace
  • Fanatical
  • Electronic Baffle
• Omega Squadron Ace
  • Fanatical
  • Electronic Baffle

Nice a simple list, as I can say, reminds me of f/o lists in previous edition. Definitely worth of trying. Yet I'm not fully conviced that the combination Baffle/Fanatical is worthy of volutarily loosing the only shield that TIE's do have. They are still TIE's and without that shield they are super fragile. I put it on Scorch because of his stress triggering ability, in case Muse is gone too early and I'd desperately need that stress gone, but I didn't think of using it offesively . It's interesting idea but I don't kow yet...but the combination on those three Omega's is really nice, it makes them really trigger-happy and I'll definitely try them out. Also, it just came to my mind, they can do quite nice retinue for Upsilon, maybe there will be room even for those AdvO...

14 hours ago, MadMystic said:

I'm not fully conviced that the combination Baffle/Fanatical is worthy of volutarily loosing the only shield that TIE's do have. They are still TIE's  and without that shield they a  re super  fragile.  I put  it on Scorch because of his stress triggering ability, in case Muse is gone too early and I'd desperately need t  hat s  tress gone, but I didn't think of using  it offesively  . It's interesting idea but I don't kow yet...

I know. I'm not totally sold on the idea myself. It was just an interesting notion that popped into my head. Fanatical is powerful and cheap, and TIE/fo only have 1 shield. Assuming you start evading instead of focusing after triggering it, you're basically in the same state as you were - focus on your attack roll, unmodified defence roll + 1 extra hit stopped (from an evade rather than a shield).

The fact that it gives you a lot of options coming out of a Segnor loop (speed 1 turn, for example, or another segnor's loop, this time with modified attack dice) was more appealing than the idea of voluntarily burning off your shields in order to trigger fanatical; it's just that you shouldn't be hesitant to use the baffle if you end a turn stressed (or locked, potentially - remember target lock is a red token too, and if it's a choice between dropping the shield or eating a proton torpedo, I know which option I'd go for)

A squad which uses this to allow it to pull some silly manoeuvres:

• Omega Squadron Ace x 4
  • Fanatical
  • Advanced Optics
  • Electronic Baffle
• Commander Malarus
  • Elusive

Looks like Omega Ace with Fan/AdvO/Elba is going to be my new grey

55 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

remember target lock is a red token too, and if it's a choice between dropping the shield or eating a proton torpedo, I know which option I'd go for

I didn't realize that at all! I need to re-read all the cards, as I still think in intentions of 1.ed. But Elba is becoming more interesting with this possibility...

27 minutes ago, MadMystic said:

I didn't realize that at all! I need to re-read all the cards, as I still think in intentions of 1.ed. But Elba is becoming more interesting with this possibility...

Yup. Ion, Stress and Lock are all red tokens, and valid targets for Electronic Baffle.

I had a similar reaction with Lieutenant Rivas. "Red or Orange Token" means it triggers when an enemy ship gets stressed or is locked by another ship or becomes ionized or gets jammed or tractored or disarmed from a SLAM or reload action.

It's a ludicrously powerful ability which is only balanced because it's strapped to an Initiative 1 TIE fighter.

I know this changes the archetype a little, but I think the inclusion of Stridan with Hux is better than strictly FO Fighters by themselves. An Upsilon can help with setting these guys up for success and offers quite a punch as well as staying power at 12 hit points.

Upsilon -class Shuttle - •Major Stridan - 73

•Major Stridan - Stentorian Commander (63)

•General Hux (10)

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Muse” - 34

•“Muse” - Epsilon Leader (32)

Fanatical (2)

TIE/fo Fighter - •“Static” - 37

•“Static” - Omega Ace (35)

Fanatical (2)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 28

Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (28)

TIE/fo Fighter - Epsilon Squadron Cadet - 28

Epsilon Squadron Cadet - (28)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Epsilons in front can set up blocks for the group and are first line of cheap expendable fighters. Static can get his PA to trigger every turn from Stridan Hux coordinating the TLs. Muse for stress help. And Stridan slow rolls in trying to keep something in arc for shots.

My one observation - if Static is using her ability - and frankly if she's not you might as well have another Epsilon Cadet - then you don't need attack dice modification. Hence, Fanatical seems a bit redundant. Not sure what else I'd use the 2 points on - maybe electronic baffle for the shuttle to hux-proof it a bit?