Haven't seen any info about the ramming rules for Huge ships. Are they the same as for other ships? (I would think a ssd would crush a small ship completely, what with it's huge size, just like xwing epic scale)

If not, it seems an easy method like Rieekan and plonking 1 cr90 or other cheap ship in the front of the ssd every round during engagement would keep it stuck in place and allow the rest of the Rieekan fleet to flank and break the ssd.

So far I didn't see anything, but I could imagine non-huge ships are like flotillas when ramming or getting rammed by a huge ship. Or maybe (like in X-Wing) they just crush ships (below XY in size). Hopefully we'll see soon.

I was thinking of the scene of Rogue One when the Devastator exited Hyperspace and an unlucky Rebel Transport crashed into it, bursting like a melon...

Maybe if a huge ship rams something smaller there could be a new mechanism introduced? Perhaps the smaller ship has to make a speed 1 move backwards?

That would avoid the rather insane scenario of a small base ship blocking a huge for multiple turns.

We do know that at least some ships that ram them take a normal face down, if the leaks are to be believed, as the Eclipse title makes them take it face up. Apart from that nothing is known and due to playtester NDAs I doubt we'll find out until we get an article.

2 hours ago, Muelmuel said:

Haven't seen any info about the ramming rules for Huge ships. Are they the same as for other ships? (I would think a ssd would crush a small ship completely, what with it's huge size, just like xwing epic scale)

If not, it seems an easy method like Rieekan and plonking 1 cr90 or other cheap ship in the front of the ssd every round during engagement would keep it stuck in place and allow the rest of the Rieekan fleet to flank and break the ssd.

Of course, by that same token a single A-Wing would potentially destroy the SSD by ramming it.

16 minutes ago, Crewgar said:

Apart from that nothing is known and due to playtester NDAs I doubt we'll find out until we get an article.

Or Ackbar Forbid, release.

I like the non-huge ship flotilla ram idea. Simple, logical, easy to remember.

2 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

That would avoid the rather insane scenario of a small base ship blocking a huge for multiple turns.

Nah it very accurately represents the crew of the huge ship being frozen in terror at the prospect of the tiny ship jumping into them at light speed and destroying their entire fleet. 😐

The ramming mechanic is pretty silly in this game if you want to try and apply canon to it.

We have (in film):

-Two ISDs mindbogglingly run into each other chasing the Falcon. No damage is described, but the officers getting jostled looks like what would happen in any tanker/cargo ship crash video I’ve seen.

-Awing runs into SSD. Everything involved dies.

-Hammerhead bangs into ISD while going fairly slow. No real damage to either.

-ISD sweeps into another ISD while being pushed by hammerhead. Everything dies.

-Flotilla rams Devastator and explodes like a rotting deer. ISD takes no damage.

-Raddus rams the First order. Everything dies

So by canon.... I have no idea what should represent ramming for an SSD in Armada. Maybe roll a D4 after any ram, including squads

-On a 1, nothing gets hurt

-On a 2, the ISD lives

-On a 3 or 4, everything dies

17 hours ago, Bakura83 said:

Nah it very accurately represents the crew of the huge ship being frozen in terror at the prospect of the tiny ship jumping into them at light speed and destroying their entire fleet. 😐

Funny. But too soon. Too soon. Disney still owns Star Wars and will likely continue to ruin the legacy one bad movie by another.

Come to think of it...I'm ok with a wing taking out the bridge, but ssd suddenly plummeting into ds?

Rian level horrible.

17 hours ago, Bakura83 said:

Nah it very accurately represents the crew of the huge ship being frozen in terror at the prospect of the tiny ship jumping into them at light speed and destroying their entire fleet. 😐

16 minutes ago, Cpt. Caine said:

Funny. But too soon. Too soon. Disney still owns Star Wars and will likely continue to ruin the legacy one bad movie by another.

22 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

Maybe if a huge ship rams something smaller there could be a new mechanism introduced? Perhaps the smaller ship has to make a speed 1 move backwards?

That would avoid the rather insane scenario of a small base ship blocking a huge for multiple turns.

I like this thought but this comes with the question of what happens when there are other ships behind the small ship which it will overlap when retreating backwards?

I'll I agree that the scenario of a small base ship blocking a huge is silly. It also allows for Rieekan shenanigans although I agree we havent seen it play out on the table yet. I'm thinking maybe destroy the small ship, but perhaps ssd eats a faceup or 2 facedown, and drops speed by 1. Or does ram damage depending on ship size(3 for small, 2 for medium, 1 for large)

25 minutes ago, Astrodar said:

Why do weirdos keep telling me to stop beating a dead horse??? Who would ever beat a live horse - that’s so cruel!? Beating a dead horse is good harmless fun with no one getting hurt.

On 12/1/2018 at 5:50 PM, ISD Avenger said:

Maybe if a huge ship rams something smaller there could be a new mechanism introduced? Perhaps the smaller ship has to make a speed 1 move backwards?

That would avoid the rather insane scenario of a small base ship blocking a huge for multiple turns.

given that:

a) it should be rather hard for anything to actually collide with the SSD given how big and slow it is

b) small ships should not really be able to block something as large as an SSD

c) the SSD shouldn't really take damage for bumping into small ships

... then perhaps a good solution is that when the SSD overlaps a flotilla it works a similar way to how ships overlap squadrons. The other player gets to place the flotilla touching the hull-to-hull but facing in the same direction. Perhaps this could apply to small ships too but medium or large ships collide as normal.

If it’s steered from the back base and given a nav command (or better yet JJ,) blocking it with a small base might actually be rather hard to pull off.

In my eyes the SSD (or huge ships in general) need their own rules for overlapping. Not only for overlapping another ship, because it would be ridiculous to stop a Super Star Destroyer with a Flotilla. I think a huge ship should be immune to all effects of overlapping obstacles. Its will happen too often that it will overlap multiple obstacles. And you can easily glide for three or more rounds over the same obstacle. IMO it would be weird if a huge ship has bigger problems with asteroids or benefits more from a station than a small ship.

But my biggest concern is how would you redeploy a squadron after overlapping it. Imagine you overlap a B-wing at the one end of the base. Then you could redeploy it at the far end. That's a distance more than the length of a range ruler! That's a jump with light speed for a squadron with speed 2.

While playing with a proxy we decided that all rules for overlapping squadrons and deployment would always only apply to one plastic base, that are tied together by the ship token. For deployment and movement we used the rear base. When overlapping a squadron you would have to redeploy touching the plastic base that actually overlaped. But I'm really curious how FFG will decide these and other questions.

1 hour ago, Triangular said:

For deployment and movement we used the rear base. When overlapping a squadron you would have to redeploy touching the plastic base that actually overlaped. But I'm really curious how FFG will decide these and other questions.

That's a very sensible suggestion. I'm very curious to see what FFG have already planned.

6 hours ago, Triangular said:

IMO it would be weird if a huge ship has bigger problems with asteroids or benefits more from a station than a small ship.

So they don't necessarily. A huge ship has a bigger problem avoiding the asteroids, and an easier time landing on the station, but harmed less by an asteroid than a small ship, and is benefited by the station less than a small ship.

On 12/2/2018 at 9:37 AM, Green Knight said:

Come to think of it...I'm ok with a wing taking out the bridge, but ssd suddenly plummeting into ds?

I hate to be a broken record, so I'll keep this as brief as possible.

In RotJ , the battle with the SSD was supposed to be another major plotpoint that kicks off when Ackar says "concentrate all firepower on that SSD!" The original scripts, storyboards, and even some filmed deleted or unfinished scenes were made to fill in this plotline. But because the Battle of Endor spacefight was already the most complicated scenes ever put to film (something like over 100 layers of film for some scenes) and the movie was already long, it was largely scrapped (just like the Jerjerrod's moral dilemma plotline was scrapped).


But basically, to be very brief, the battle of the SSD looks like this:

• Madine leads a taskforce of at least Mon Cala cruisers against the SSD, these eventually knock out the bridge and dorsal deflectors after intense volleys
• Green squadron then strafes and destroys the port sensor array
• Blue squadron then strafes and destroys the starboard sensor array
• Meanwhile, the Mon Cals begin targeting dorsal batteries on the SSD
• With sensors (and therefore targeting data) greatly reduced and the dorsal guns lessened, Green Squadron begins an attack run close to the surface of the SSD to approach its bridge for missile/torpedo volleys, now hoping to a get a few through the otherwise nearly impenetrable anti-squadron armament (now that the Empire had started taking fighter assaults more seriously, post Yavin).
• Piett basically orders a blind intensification of dorsal batteries to screen off the fighters' approach, since targeting data from the sensor arrays is lost
• This blindfire volley is still sufficient firepower to kill most of the approaching fighters
• Arvel's A-Wing gets damaged and enters into a death-spiral. Arvel is able to maintain enough control of his A-Wing to steer it into the bridge of the SSD, destroying the command and main-bridge controls (though his original goal was, like the other fighters, to just fire a bunch of missiles into the transparisteel of the recessed bridge views).
• With the main bridge knocked out, Blue Squadron begins attacking the ventral-most engine ports, knocking a few of them out. This then starts carrying the SSD "downwards" toward the DSII as the dorsal engines are still firing without compensation from the ventral.
• The remaining Mon Cals that had been assualting the SSD use their tractor beans in a concerted effort to give the SSD an additional 'shove' toward the DSII
• By the time control has been re-established by an auxiliary bridge of the SSD, the momentum of the ship is too much to stop or redirect, colliding the ship into the DSII and destroying it

This whole series of events was ultimately an intentional attack plan of the Rebels, since they knew using the SSD's proximity to the DSII would be the fastest and probably only effective way to destroy it. In open space, a tactic like this would simply not be an option.

But there was a much "grander" series of events planned for the destruction of the SSD, but due to story-telling and practical limitations, most of it happens off screen with just the basic most snippets ending up in the film.

24 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I hate to be a broken record, so I'll keep this as brief as possible.

In RotJ , the battle with the SSD was supposed to be another major plotpoint that kicks off when Ackar says "concentrate all firepower on that SSD!" The original scripts, storyboards, and even some filmed deleted or unfinished scenes were made to fill in this plotline. But because the Battle of Endor spacefight was already the most complicated scenes ever put to film (something like over 100 layers of film for some scenes) and the movie was already long, it was largely scrapped (just like the Jerjerrod's moral dilemma plotline was scrapped).


But basically, to be very brief, the battle of the SSD looks like this:

• Madine leads a taskforce of at least Mon Cala cruisers against the SSD, these eventually knock out the bridge and dorsal deflectors after intense volleys
• Green squadron then strafes and destroys the port sensor array
• Blue squadron then strafes and destroys the starboard sensor array
• Meanwhile, the Mon Cals begin targeting dorsal batteries on the SSD
• With sensors (and therefore targeting data) greatly reduced and the dorsal guns lessened, Green Squadron begins an attack run close to the surface of the SSD to approach its bridge for missile/torpedo volleys, now hoping to a get a few through the otherwise nearly impenetrable anti-squadron armament (now that the Empire had started taking fighter assaults more seriously, post Yavin).
• Piett basically orders a blind intensification of dorsal batteries to screen off the fighters' approach, since targeting data from the sensor arrays is lost
• This blindfire volley is still sufficient firepower to kill most of the approaching fighters
• Arvel's A-Wing gets damaged and enters into a death-spiral. Arvel is able to maintain enough control of his A-Wing to steer it into the bridge of the SSD, destroying the command and main-bridge controls (though his original goal was, like the other fighters, to just fire a bunch of missiles into the transparisteel of the recessed bridge views).
• With the main bridge knocked out, Blue Squadron begins attacking the ventral-most engine ports, knocking a few of them out. This then starts carrying the SSD "downwards" toward the DSII as the dorsal engines are still firing without compensation from the ventral.
• The remaining Mon Cals that had been assualting the SSD use their tractor beans in a concerted effort to give the SSD an additional 'shove' toward the DSII
• By the time control has been re-established by an auxiliary bridge of the SSD, the momentum of the ship is too much to stop or redirect, colliding the ship into the DSII and destroying it

This whole series of events was ultimately an intentional attack plan of the Rebels, since they knew using the SSD's proximity to the DSII would be the fastest and probably only effective way to destroy it. In open space, a tactic like this would simply not be an option.

But there was a much "grander" series of events planned for the destruction of the SSD, but due to story-telling and practical limitations, most of it happens off screen with just the basic most snippets ending up in the film.

source? (I'd love to read the novel that goes through all this lol)

6 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

source? (I'd love to read the novel that goes through all this lol)

As far as I know, there is no novelization of this and it's never been organized and put together in one place, but it's something I've pieced together from a variety of sources over the years given my interest in space combat in Star Wars, with the Battle of Endor being for a long time the only example of it.

A good starting point is YouTube, in that you can find deleted scenes from RotJ. These include amongst them some additional pilot footage (namely a Sullustan and Mon Cal in B-Wing cockpits) and scenes of Madine swiveling around on the captain's chair of a Mon Cal as he directs his task force during the would-have-been battle with the SSD. You can also find additional rough and unfinished pilot footage from RotJ.

Other sources have included things like a random behind the scenes specials of RotJ or special effects, snippets of original story drafts or storyboards (which I found by chance while on a forum about custom-building Rebel Flight Suit Costumes and Helmets ... I was trying to figure out some custom movie-accurate paintschemes for X-Wing), and old technical manuals that identify the domes on top of Star Destroyers not as shield generators/projectors (as they are now) but as specifically sensor and targeting array domes).

Even some scenes that did make it into the film contain some hints about this. In scenes from the Executor's bridge when the battle has really gotten underway, you can see a slew of Mon Cals filling the view, typically in between the SSD and the other ISDs. This would have been Madine's task force assaulting the SSD. You can also see when Arvel's A-Wing crashes into the bridge of the SSD that both arrays are flaming and destroyed, even though we only ever see A-Wings destroy the port array. Most importantly, as the Executor is crashing into the DSII, you can see flames protruding from underneath it by the engines... this is likely the damage done to particular engine ports to steer the SSD into the DSII.

1 hour ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I hate to be a broken record, so I'll keep this as brief as possible.

In RotJ , the battle with the SSD was supposed to be another major plotpoint that kicks off when Ackar says "concentrate all firepower on that SSD!" The original scripts, storyboards, and even some filmed deleted or unfinished scenes were made to fill in this plotline. But because the Battle of Endor spacefight was already the most complicated scenes ever put to film (something like over 100 layers of film for some scenes) and the movie was already long, it was largely scrapped (just like the Jerjerrod's moral dilemma plotline was scrapped).


But basically, to be very brief, the battle of the SSD looks like this:

• Madine leads a taskforce of at least Mon Cala cruisers against the SSD, these eventually knock out the bridge and dorsal deflectors after intense volleys
• Green squadron then strafes and destroys the port sensor array
• Blue squadron then strafes and destroys the starboard sensor array
• Meanwhile, the Mon Cals begin targeting dorsal batteries on the SSD
• With sensors (and therefore targeting data) greatly reduced and the dorsal guns lessened, Green Squadron begins an attack run close to the surface of the SSD to approach its bridge for missile/torpedo volleys, now hoping to a get a few through the otherwise nearly impenetrable anti-squadron armament (now that the Empire had started taking fighter assaults more seriously, post Yavin).
• Piett basically orders a blind intensification of dorsal batteries to screen off the fighters' approach, since targeting data from the sensor arrays is lost
• This blindfire volley is still sufficient firepower to kill most of the approaching fighters
• Arvel's A-Wing gets damaged and enters into a death-spiral. Arvel is able to maintain enough control of his A-Wing to steer it into the bridge of the SSD, destroying the command and main-bridge controls (though his original goal was, like the other fighters, to just fire a bunch of missiles into the transparisteel of the recessed bridge views).
• With the main bridge knocked out, Blue Squadron begins attacking the ventral-most engine ports, knocking a few of them out. This then starts carrying the SSD "downwards" toward the DSII as the dorsal engines are still firing without compensation from the ventral.
• The remaining Mon Cals that had been assualting the SSD use their tractor beans in a concerted effort to give the SSD an additional 'shove' toward the DSII
• By the time control has been re-established by an auxiliary bridge of the SSD, the momentum of the ship is too much to stop or redirect, colliding the ship into the DSII and destroying it

This whole series of events was ultimately an intentional attack plan of the Rebels, since they knew using the SSD's proximity to the DSII would be the fastest and probably only effective way to destroy it. In open space, a tactic like this would simply not be an option.

But there was a much "grander" series of events planned for the destruction of the SSD, but due to story-telling and practical limitations, most of it happens off screen with just the basic most snippets ending up in the film.

One of a billion reasons why EU material is needed to flesh out, extrapolate and otherwise soften the edges on a media limited to 1-2 hours of runtime. Some of it is available in the Dark Saber trilogy where Madine features if I recall correctly.

Of course, as good of an explanation and plot-hole-closing this is (thanks for the rundown, I hadn't seen it this succintly put before) - earlier posts in the thread already established why the entire battle makes no sense given first tier Disney Wars canon - the Rebellion could simply have had a Nebulon-B Frigate or so hyperspace directly into the Executor. Problem fixed.

In fact, there is about zero rationale for an inferior fighting force to engage in symmetrical space battles (mind you, engaging in symmetrical battle is the last and final phase of an insurrection in Mao's original envisioning that has been the basis of real life guerrilla warfare doctrine ever since - even if it has often been made irrelevant due to the superior force withdrawing due to domestic politics) in the Star Wars universe given that the Magic Hyperspace weapon apparantly exists.

Oh good, more complaining about The Last Jedi. Just what I wanted today.

2 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I hate to be a broken record, so I'll keep this as brief as possible.

In RotJ , the battle with the SSD was supposed to be another major plotpoint that kicks off when Ackar says "concentrate all firepower on that SSD!" The original scripts, storyboards, and even some filmed deleted or unfinished scenes were made to fill in this plotline. But because the Battle of Endor spacefight was already the most complicated scenes ever put to film (something like over 100 layers of film for some scenes) and the movie was already long, it was largely scrapped (just like the Jerjerrod's moral dilemma plotline was scrapped).


But basically, to be very brief, the battle of the SSD looks like this:

• Madine leads a taskforce of at least Mon Cala cruisers against the SSD, these eventually knock out the bridge and dorsal deflectors after intense volleys
• Green squadron then strafes and destroys the port sensor array
• Blue squadron then strafes and destroys the starboard sensor array
• Meanwhile, the Mon Cals begin targeting dorsal batteries on the SSD
• With sensors (and therefore targeting data) greatly reduced and the dorsal guns lessened, Green Squadron begins an attack run close to the surface of the SSD to approach its bridge for missile/torpedo volleys, now hoping to a get a few through the otherwise nearly impenetrable anti-squadron armament (now that the Empire had started taking fighter assaults more seriously, post Yavin).
• Piett basically orders a blind intensification of dorsal batteries to screen off the fighters' approach, since targeting data from the sensor arrays is lost
• This blindfire volley is still sufficient firepower to kill most of the approaching fighters
• Arvel's A-Wing gets damaged and enters into a death-spiral. Arvel is able to maintain enough control of his A-Wing to steer it into the bridge of the SSD, destroying the command and main-bridge controls (though his original goal was, like the other fighters, to just fire a bunch of missiles into the transparisteel of the recessed bridge views).
• With the main bridge knocked out, Blue Squadron begins attacking the ventral-most engine ports, knocking a few of them out. This then starts carrying the SSD "downwards" toward the DSII as the dorsal engines are still firing without compensation from the ventral.
• The remaining Mon Cals that had been assualting the SSD use their tractor beans in a concerted effort to give the SSD an additional 'shove' toward the DSII
• By the time control has been re-established by an auxiliary bridge of the SSD, the momentum of the ship is too much to stop or redirect, colliding the ship into the DSII and destroying it

This whole series of events was ultimately an intentional attack plan of the Rebels, since they knew using the SSD's proximity to the DSII would be the fastest and probably only effective way to destroy it. In open space, a tactic like this would simply not be an option.

But there was a much "grander" series of events planned for the destruction of the SSD, but due to story-telling and practical limitations, most of it happens off screen with just the basic most snippets ending up in the film.

Why go through all that effort when they could just call up a hammerhead corvette?