Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I couldn't find it. Can Ebb be used to oppose an adversary's check?

E.g. Player 1 rolls his force die to attempt to use Bind on Player 2. Player 2 opposes the check, but doesn't have as much skill as Player 1 who has maxed out his Dicipline, so he says he wants to use Ebb to give Player 1 two auto failure and two auto threat to the roll. Is this allowed?

The reason for my confusion is in the wording of Ebb/Flow which says "When the user makes a skill check , he may roll an Ebb power check as part of the roll."

Now is there a difference between a "skill check" and an "opposed check"? Cause if they're two sides of the same coin so to speak, then he should be able to use it, but if they're different then he wouldn't. And half my players think an opposed check is a type of skill check, and the other half say normal skill checks are not the same as opposed checks...

Opinions? (Or better yet a quote from a book that I overlooked!) 😅

Thanks in advance!

As long as the player with the Ebb/Flow power is the one actively making the roll, then they can add their Force dice as per the power.

Opposed checks are themselves a type of skill check, much as a combat check or a social check are skill checks. So again, as long as the player is the one actively making the roll, then Ebb/Flow applies.

The caveat to this is that it won't help if the player is being targeted by an opposed check, and it's the NPC that is rolling the dice. Since the PC's not the one making the check, Ebb/Flow doesn't apply.

The other thing to bear in mind (and this has been clarified by the devs) is that you can't use Force dice for multiple Force powers/talents/effects in the same roll. So for instance, if your player has Influence and the affect emotions/belief Control upgrade as well as Ebb/Flow, then they couldn't gain the benefits of Ebb/Flow when making the opposed Discipline check to alter a target's emotions/beliefs, as that's trying to use two different Force effects in the same roll. Generally, most GMs have the player declare which Force power/talent they are using before they roll (in this instance, the player declares they are using Influence) and disallow players to swap any Force points generated to a different effect (in this case, if the Discipline check failed, the player couldn't then use the Force points they generated to fuel Ebb/Flow).

That seems to fit the wording well. Thank you so much for clarifying!

My only worry is that if the one "activly making the roll" can use it but "it won't help the player being targeted", then that would create a power inbalance in favour of the attacker. If the attacker tries to wrestle the defender to the ground, and is allowed to uses his Ebb/Flow to boost his skill check, but the defender isn't allowed to use Ebb/Flow to contest it, then the attacker will usually win. (And yes I'm talking about PC vs PC, as my players constantly spar.)

Any way to balance this out? (Or did I misunderstand what you said?)

2 hours ago, Vanahemir said:

That seems to fit the wording well. Thank you so much for clarifying!

My only worry is that if the one "activly making the roll" can use it but "it won't help the player being targeted", then that would create a power inbalance in favour of the attacker. If the attacker tries to wrestle the defender to the ground, and is allowed to uses his Ebb/Flow to boost his skill check, but the defender isn't allowed to use Ebb/Flow to contest it, then the attacker will usually win. (And yes I'm talking about PC vs PC, as my players constantly spar.)

Any way to balance this out? (Or did I misunderstand what you said?)

You didn't misunderstand what I said.

However, the very core of the combat system was deliberately designed to favor the acting party i.e. the attacker over the defender unless the dice pools are severely lopsided in the defender's favor. This was done to avoid having combats that drag out for several rounds, which is generally at odd with how must small-scale combats in Star Wars (outside of lightsaber duels) tend to go, as well as ensure that the players always feel an element of risk during fights; from an opportunity I had to speak with Jay Little a few years go, one thing he's very much not in favor of is the players having an absolute sense of invulnerability or that they have no risk of failure, as in his experiences that leads to boring sessions and worse yet bored players.

So it's fine that Ebb/Flow is of no use when defending/opposing a skill check, as the power as written is already incredibly useful to PCs; I've got a Soresu Defender that practically swears by the Flow portion of the power to help keep his strain threshold from redlining during fights, as the GM is not shy about having the bad guys shoot the nutjob who's openly brandishing a lightsaber.

🤣 Soresu Defender vs GM, love it!

That is a logical reason, I will explain it to my players. We did have a battle drag out a bit for that reason last week, so I'm sure they'll see the wisdom in not allowing it to drag on again. Thank you so much!