Basically the title : what happens when all your cards are not in either the discard or in the deck?

I've had this situation yesterday, where I had about 28 cards in hand and the rest in archive/in play, and I had to draw 4 each time I play a logos card with Library Access.

Atttachment is my hand during the turn - which made us question the deckout, because lul Library access.

Thanks !

You get to make a post here and let us know how you did it and for us to tell you where you messed up the rules

https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/a6442925-6a98-4729-bb73-17ccce808b6d

Library Access + Nepenthes seeds drawing 3 each time I play a logos spell, and then refreshing the deck and drawing Library again for a total of 4 draws per spell.

Yes, the deck is that stupid.

haha nice, you broke the game

Page 5 da rulez

“Play:” ability and, after resolving as much of the ability as possible, places the card in their discard pile.

with no cards left to draw you do....nothing

I agree I wouldn't draw anymore, but in some games you either take a penalty for having an empty deck, or possibly lose. In keyforge that is not explicit, and I was wondering if anything happens in that case. So far my only answer seems to be "nothing happens you keep playing", but I'd like a confirmation on that.

5 minutes ago, Ichi Sumeragi said:

I agree I wouldn't draw anymore, but in some games you either take a penalty for having an empty deck, or possibly lose. In keyforge that is not explicit, and I was wondering if anything happens in that case. So far my only answer seems to be "nothing happens you keep playing", but I'd like a confirmation in that.

Strange but, here we go

Page 5 of da rulez

STEP 5: DRAW CARDS
The active player draws cards from the top of their deck until they have six cards in their hand. After a player completes this step, their turn ends.

• If the active player has more than six cards in hand, they do not discard down to six.
• If a player needs to draw cards (during this step or at any other time) and cannot because their deck is empty, that player shuffles their discard pile to reset their deck, and then continues to draw.
• When a player’s turn ends, if that player has enough Æmber in their pool to afford a key, the player announces “Check!” so that their opponent knows the forging of a key at the start of that player’s next turn is imminent.

This isn't a game where you can be 'decked' the only 'penalty' you gots is not being able to draw anymore cards until you can get a discard pile again.

Alright, sounds a tiny bit odd that they didn't specifically address it but I'm fine with that reasoning (solve as much as possible and draw if you can).

Nevermind. I was looking at a foreign version of the card...

Your opponent concedes is what happens.

You're never going to leave the state of "whole deck in hand" so you can overwhelm your opponent with raw numbers.

4 minutes ago, Polaritie said:

Your opponent concedes is what happens.

You're never going to leave the state of "whole deck in hand" so you can overwhelm your opponent with raw numbers.

You do realize that takes 2 different factions to do?

He has to Choose Untamed in order to play Nepenthe Seed

Then he has to Choose Logos on the next turn.

Plus the deck doesn't generate amber all that well.

Enjoy all that chain you are going to get

10 minutes ago, Makelumpycanon said:

Enjoy all that chain you are going to get

Pfth, chains? His whole deck is in his hand! What's left for him to draw? Game's probably going to be over in a turn or two anyway (barring a Gateway or some other board wipe).

3 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Pfth, chains? His whole deck is in his hand! What's left for him to draw? Game's probably going to be over in a turn or two anyway (barring a Gateway or some other board wipe).

If he wins enough and gets 19-24 chain at the start of the game then yeah, he is nerfed unless he gets some fortunate draws. Nothing against the deck btw. Love the combo.

1 minute ago, Makelumpycanon said:

If he wins enough and gets 19-24 chain at the start of the game then yeah, he is nerfed unless he gets some fortunate draws. Nothing against the deck btw. Love the combo.

Oh, THOSE chains. The this-deck-is-too-good-so-we're-going-to-handicap-it chains. My bad.

While the deck doesn't generate a lot of aember without the combo... consider that you have your whole deck in your hand, and if you're picking Logos a turn after you combo, you still get to play 6 times each Logos card because you'll draw them back instantly once your deck is only composed of the one card you play.

Like, 6 Twin Bolts gets you a nice board wipe and 6 aember, same for Labwork, that's already 12 aembers there per turn. I'm not even talking about reaping, should you be able to sustain some Trolls on the board for example.

Also, yes, the combo takes two turns, but you can still play the seeds way before you get your Library, and two turns for drawing your whole deck doesn't sound too bad. If I had to pick this deck's flaws, it's pretty sensible to being slowed down in the early game, sensible to very fast decks, and can be annoyed with artifact control/destruction (because here, controlling the seed is essentially destroying it).

I was worried about this kind of deck cycling as soon as I learned the Chains rule plus how you cannot be decked.
Once you find a source of card draw that is not part of Step 5, you can laugh at all the Chains.

33 minutes ago, Ichi Sumeragi said:

if you're picking Logos a turn after you combo, you still get to play 6 times each Logos card because you'll draw them back instantly once your deck is only composed of the one card you play.

You mean re drawing them because you will play another Library Access first?

That also made me think... The draw from Library A. happens before or after the card you play complete it's effect?

It happens before "play" effects take place if I'm not mistaken, so I'm gonna assume you draw before.

Either way, you can chain the cards as long as you have a Library if you have your deck in your hand :

You play Library - Graveyard only has the Library

Play card A - refresh the deck, draw the library, card A goes into the graveyard - graveyard only has the card A

Play card B - refresh the deck, draw card A, card B goes into the graveyard - graveyard only has the card B

Play card C - refresh the deck, draw card B, card C goes into the graveyard - graveyard only has the card C

and so on.

6 minutes ago, Mushra93 said:

You mean re drawing them because you will play another Library Access first?

That also made me think... The draw from Library A. happens before or after the card you play complete it's effect?

You can’t play the same card more than 6 times in a turn.

4 minutes ago, Derrault said:

You can’t play the same card more than 6 times in a turn.

That was not exactly the question. I was wondering if you draw a card from library access before you resolve the card you just played or after it's fully resolved.

About playing more spells, yeah, there is the rule of 6. But with his whole deck in hand he can basically play every different title/name card 6 times in 1 turn

13 minutes ago, Ichi Sumeragi said:

and so on. 

Yes you can combo into using the same card name 6x times, for all Logos cards.

14 minutes ago, Ichi Sumeragi said:

It happens before "play" effects take place if I'm not mistaken, so I'm gonna assume you draw before.

Really curious about this, though

I found this rule written in this google doc (I don't know where the gdoc is coming from nor where the ruling comes from) but here goes (line 162) :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wkQ6N7cxoTV4gflk7iW1GcHHCN8e-MOkbul1D1QFJdM/edit#gid=0

FAq has the card draw after gaining amber, but before doing anything on the card

When exactly do I draw cards from Library Access' effect?

For each played card, you draw a card from Library Access' effect after gaining the Æmber bonus for that card, but before triggering any "Play:" abilities on that card.

Edit: I am super envious of that deck!

Thanks guys