5 hours ago, themightyhedgehog said:

Except when you fly Landmonition, then lando that shot and admo the evade you used to dodge one hit already...

Admo is always better.

Though, Foresight guarantees the efficacy or its effect (as long as the tokens aren't locked). Lando doesn't guarantee the reroll will be more favourable for you.

38 minutes ago, ManInTheBox said:

Though, Foresight guarantees the efficacy or its effect (as long as the tokens aren't locked). Lando doesn't guarantee the reroll will be more favourable for you.

The comparison is not Lando vs. Foresight. It's Admo vs Foresight, and even at red range, Admo > Foresight against the One Big Shot, because it can't be accuracied. The only advantage Foresight has over Admo there is the double-redirect thing, and it is so very, very uncommon for that to come into play at long range that it's basically irrelevant.*

Also, ****, I can't believe I missed this thread for so long. @Captain Ordo N-11 , this is why Admonition is always better than Foresight :

*edit: nearly the only time it becomes relevant is if the opponent is applying more than 10 damage at long range , after discarding their two most impactful dice. That is a sufficiently uncommon occurrence for me that it's worth disregarding outright; if your experience differs in this respect, I feel bad for you.

On 12/2/2018 at 4:08 AM, BrobaFett said:

Derlin being just damage reduction doesn't save you from crit effects like apt which are crippling to the low hull mc30. Admonition being a dice discard can save you from 3 damage if it discards a hit crit with apt.

Only instance foresite vs admo and foresight wins is against the one big shot at red range, like a cymoon or ackbar mc80. Every other situation admonition is tankier.

15 hours ago, themightyhedgehog said:

Except when you fly Landmonition, then lando that shot and admo the evade you used to dodge one hit already...

Admo is always better. 

8 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

The comparison is not Lando vs. Foresight. It's Admo vs Foresight, and even at red range, Admo > Foresight against the One Big Shot, because it can't be accuracied. The only advantage Foresight has over Admo there is the double-redirect thing, and it is so very, very uncommon for that to come into play at long range that it's basically irrelevant.

I'm aware of that, but it was our spiky friend who brought Lando into the Foresight Vs Admo conversation. I was just providing some context to that comparison.

Not sure if you read my earlier posts but I am and have always been 100% in the Admo camp.

27 minutes ago, ManInTheBox said:

“our spiky friend”

I dig it.

I brought up lando cuz I always put him there... I SUPPOSE you could put him on foresight... but I’ve never heard of landosight like I have of landmonition.

Ok ok, I'm starting to see how Admonition is better and just how good it is. I still think Foresight is decent with Mothma (maybe better than something that goes in the defensive slot, maybe not).

4 minutes ago, Captain Ordo N-11 said:

Ok ok, I'm starting to see how Admonition is better and just how good it is. I still think Foresight is decent with Mothma (maybe better than something that goes in the defensive slot, maybe not).

It comes down to this:

MC30's in general do not befit from ANY defensive slot add-ins. A 4 hull ship can be taken down with the craziest of shots and generally there are better places for the points in a fleet. Also, if you are running multiple MC30's, players tend to spread out the valuable titles and officers that can help them the most. Here is the break down of order of tendencies I have seen:

1. 1xMC30 = Admonition is the unquestioned title to add.

2. 2xMC30 = Admonition on one and Lando on the other if in a non Mothma fleet. If Mothma is there, then it is a tossup between Lando and Foresight. It comes down to how many points you have available in your list. Lando is half the cost of Foresight and a useful alternative when you are trying to find 4pts. to trim in a fleet list.

3. 3xMC30 = Admo, Lando, & Foresight. If you are running 3 MC30's, you are probably running Mothma, or if you aren't...when running 3+ MC30 lists, some prefer at this point to run them with NO titles.

OH....and the last thing, if you are not putting Lando on a MC30 then the next best officer to me is Skilled First Officer. It is the best 1pt. officer in the game. I like to alternate my command dials on a MC30 with Nav and CF. If I need the other one....NO PROBLEM! Just burn SFO and then you get the command you need. You also get to reset your entire command stack afterwards.

4 hours ago, itzSteve said:

It comes down to this:

MC30's in general do not befit from ANY defensive slot add-ins. A 4 hull ship can be taken down with the craziest of shots and generally there are better places for the points in a fleet. Also, if you are running multiple MC30's, players tend to spread out the valuable titles and officers that can help them the most. Here is the break down of order of tendencies I have seen:

1. 1xMC30 = Admonition is the unquestioned title to add.

2. 2xMC30 = Admonition on one and Lando on the other if in a non Mothma fleet. If Mothma is there, then it is a tossup between Lando and Foresight. It comes down to how many points you have available in your list. Lando is half the cost of Foresight and a useful alternative when you are trying to find 4pts. to trim in a fleet list.

3. 3xMC30 = Admo, Lando, & Foresight. If you are running 3 MC30's, you are probably running Mothma, or if you aren't...when running 3+ MC30 lists, some prefer at this point to run them with NO titles.

OH....and the last thing, if you are not putting Lando on a MC30 then the next best officer to me is Skilled First Officer. It is the best 1pt. officer in the game. I like to alternate my command dials on a MC30 with Nav and CF. If I need the other one....NO PROBLEM! Just burn SFO and then you get the command you need. You also get to reset your entire command stack afterwards.

I asked people's opinions of exactly this ranking recently in another thread and got some good opinions but this is what I was trying to get all along. Thanks!

13 hours ago, ManInTheBox said:

Not sure if you read my earlier posts but I am and have always been 100% in the Admo camp.

Definitely lost track of who I was responding to. My only defense is that it was late and I should have already been in bed when I typed that...

Another advantage of Admonition is that once your shields are gone, your redirect tokens still have value. Can't be understated when facing bombers.

44 minutes ago, Matt Antilles said:

Another advantage of Admonition is that once your shields are gone, your redirect tokens still have value. Can't be understated when facing bombers.

Assuming you still have redirect tokens and no shields. With three shields to a side, it’s sometimes better against, say, TIE bombers or Y-wings to Admo-discard a spent redirect and keep the adjacent shields instead of spending the redirect naturally (especially given many bombers can be outrun or forced to hit other arcs.)

On 12/1/2018 at 8:06 AM, Cpt. Caine said:

I'm not an experienced Ackbar player. But in an Ackbar list, looking at the numbers, I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer an MC30 Foresight (69+8 points in the case of a Foresight MC30) over an Assault Frigate Mark IIB (72points + upgrades) as the front ship of a line for redundant tokens, a much better title in an Ackbar list, 2 less hull, better front arc (when people try to close down your line from the front) and 1 less engineering and die in the side.

The single red die of the CR90 makes it vulnerable to obstruction and 3 red dice as its total armament isn't substantial enough. You can put TRCs on both ships to the same effect after all. You may well argue with me that two TRC90s for a price not substantially above the MC30 Foresight is a better deal, but that's a different story I think - and the vulnerability to obstruction is very real for the CR90s still.

I will also note, that as a newer player, I overvalue my defense tokens in general. I've only recently learned to understand that ships generally don't get many chances to shoot at each other, which is why external racks, disposable capacitors and defense token discarding are respectively relatively better or less bad than I first thought. My heuristic at first in Armada was to never ever discard a defense token that wasn't redundant until turn 6, and to generally never discard defense tokens.

I respect your opinion Green Knight, since you're a player I know to be skilled and experienced.

But. Calling Foresight 'ok at best' to me appears really off. I think we all agree it is worse than Admonition (due to its defense token suite, the existence of officers like Walex Blissex , its speed and manoeuvrability profile and the current game states current rather limited number of shots most ships like the MC30 Frigate will end up taking if you fly them decently well), but if you take two MC30s - Foresight for its cost is a good cards by all accounts as far as I can see. And among titles it is better than average at the very least. I guess it depends partly on XI-7s and their presence in the meta. But do you not believe that Foresight is a good title - great with Mon Mothma - whilst Admonition is arguably on of the best titles in the game?

GK is right, and the reason he's right isn't because Foresight is a good title, but instead that the standout titles are so powerful that by comparison Foresight is merely decent.

Admonition can literally do nearly everything that Foresight does, but does it at any range against any incoming damage. Admonition isn't restricted by such minor quibbles as "being too close" or "the enemy rolled an Accuracy result" or "X17s" or "you don't have any shields left." Foresight is indeed more powerful for each individual spending of the token, but Admonition gets to keep spending tokens efficiently long after they typically would provide no benefit. I frequently came up against Admonition while fielding my old Devastator build, and I can attest that the full Devastator payload was almost mandatory to successfully destroy an Admonition at close range where a Foresight would have been easily removed from the board by comparison.