Hey everyone,

I made a write up on the different Bait and switch effects in the game.
https://callofthearchons.com/2018/11/29/clickbait-and-switch/

I had a lot of fun getting some of my ideas down on "paper" and I was wondering if anyone had any feedback or constructive criticism on how I could make an article like this better?
Thanks!

Nice succinct read. However, if Drumble and Burn the Stockpile make the cut, why don't Gatekeeper and Lomir Flamefist?

My guess would be because burn the stockpile is a massive swing. Losing four amber dropping you assuming at seven to three where as lomir will only drop you to 5 and same with drumble vs gatekeeper where its all versus leaving them with five. Being left with only five in both cases is very easy to come back from where as being at zero or at three is much harder to deal with. Lomir and gatekeeper are still decent just not as good as the other two options.

I asked a few people to see if I missed any, and honestly I definitely missed gatekeeper when I was making the list. I would agree with Rhakog, gatekeeper is mostly all the bad parts of drumble plus some of the bad parts of Doorstep. Flame fist is close, but I think it is too similar to Ritual of Balance, which I also skipped because they don't help you in a catch up scenario most of the time.

Another creature that can do it is Phylyx the Disintegrator which has an action that makes the opponent lose 1 Æmber for each other friendly mars creature you control. I've had this card destroy 5 Æmber once. It is a little bit harder to pull off since you need to already have it on the board to use it.

Although in my case I have it in a deck with a Speed Sigil so it can come out of nowhere.
(Also made this comment on the site but I am waiting to have it approved)

My Deck:

https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/24c49b9b-66f0-4d51-adc3-6a177959d246

I really feel "bait and switch" is a much too powerful card. It is by far the best card in the game and it turns some games so easily that I feel there is a bad design here.

Can anyone tell us how many games were lost because, just after forging a key (first or second one), you opponent played bait and switch ? Instead of being 1 key 0 aember to 0 key 5 aember for example, it is now 1 key 3 aembers to 0 key 2 aembers... GG ! This card should have give CHAINS to the player who plays it... For sure. And I think at least 2 or 3 !

Why does effervescent principle give you a chain when it's much worse than bait and switch ??? Ok ok, I know, there are house's identities but I don't really think it's a satisfying answer. Balance should be the most important thing and I think that FFG forget this sometimes... (Unicorn in L5R first cycle anyone ? Phasma2 Destiny anyone ? And there are many others examples). It's a pity, because as I always repeat it, they make tremendous games and Keyforge is no exception !

This card should really be errated. Give either 2 or 3 chains or have a gametext like "not playable just after you forged a key" to avoid the situations I described. I know some people will answer that you can play around but I will answer them that most of the times, you just really can't ! Most of the time, it's unavoidable... (and even more if your opponent plays well).

This game is so much fun but such a card ruins sometimes an entire game... So FFG please consider to errate this. A lot of good players think Shadows is THE BEST HOUSE in the game and I think it is true... unfortunatly (aside from considering infinite combos Logos or Dis/U¨ntamed can create). And this card a big reason for such a statement.

18 minutes ago, Dimmu222 said:

I really feel "bait and switch" is a much too powerful card. It is by far the best card in the game and it turns some games so easily that I feel there is a bad design here.

Can anyone tell us how many games were lost because, just after forging a key (first or second one), you opponent played bait and switch ? Instead of being 1 key 0 aember to 0 key 5 aember for example, it is now 1 key 3 aembers to 0 key 2 aembers... GG ! This card should have give CHAINS to the player who plays it... For sure. And I think at least 2 or 3 !

Why does effervescent principle give you a chain when it's much worse than bait and switch ??? Ok ok, I know, there are house's identities but I don't really think it's a satisfying answer. Balance should be the most important thing and I think that FFG forget this sometimes... (Unicorn in L5R first cycle anyone ? Phasma2 Destiny anyone ? And there are many others examples). It's a pity, because as I always repeat it, they make tremendous games and Keyforge is no exception !

This card should really be errated. Give either 2 or 3 chains or have a gametext like "not playable just after you forged a key" to avoid the situations I described. I know some people will answer that you can play around but I will answer them that most of the times, you just really can't ! Most of the time, it's unavoidable... (and even more if your opponent plays well).

This game is so much fun but such a card ruins sometimes an entire game... So FFG please consider to errate this. A lot of good players think Shadows is THE BEST HOUSE in the game and I think it is true... unfortunatly (aside from considering infinite combos Logos or Dis/U¨ntamed can create). And this card a big reason for such a statement.

Bait and Switch is probably OP when playing with reasonable decks. When People are playing with the best decks (~0,15%), decks can win within one turn, so Bait and Switch (and Shadows) loses some power. The problem is pretty much that especially in Sealed strong Bait and Switch decks will be very prevelant, while decks that can realiable beat them won't.

That's why I wrote " aside from considering infinite combos Logos or Dis/U¨ntamed can create ". There are may be more but my reasoning is in a game with very good decks (not broken ones).

2 minutes ago, Dimmu222 said:

That's why I wrote " aside from considering infinite combos Logos or Dis/U¨ntamed can create ". There are may be more but my reasoning is in a game with very good decks (not broken ones).

Even with "normal" decks there are cards that can soften the impact of Bait and Switch. I personally think that Untamed has a higher powerlevel ceiling than Shadows due to 2 Key-Charge effects, Hunting Witches and Mimikry. But you have to be lucky to get a very strong Untamed side, while Shadow sides are almost always at least above average.

3 minutes ago, Ignithas said:

Even with "normal" decks there are cards that can soften the impact of Bait and Switch. I personally think that Untamed has a higher powerlevel ceiling than Shadows due to 2 Key-Charge effects, Hunting Witches and Mimikry. But you have to be lucky to get a very strong Untamed side, while Shadow sides are almost always at least above average.

What you say is may be true but is much more unstable than playing a bait and switch. There's a lot of setup to do what you describe here. Bait and switch is only one card, not a combo of multiple cards

Bait and switch is good for sure, but is limited to one copy per deck, which is why I think Effervescent gives chains (you can have many of them). That being said I'm fairly confident that Shatter Storm is the most powerful aember swing in the game from the perspective of someone who just forged a key.

2 minutes ago, Dimmu222 said:

What you say is may be true but is much more unstable than playing a bait and switch. There's a lot of setup to do what you describe here. Bait and switch is only one card, not a combo of multiple cards

I haven't lost a game because of Bait and Switch. It's annoying, but plan ahead and you should be fine.

16 hours ago, Apophenia said:

Another creature that can do it is Phylyx the Disintegrator which has an action that makes the opponent lose 1 Æmber for each other friendly mars creature you control. I've had this card destroy 5 Æmber once. It is a little bit harder to pull off since you need to already have it on the board to use it.

Although in my case I have it in a deck with a Speed Sigil so it can come out of nowhere.
(Also made this comment on the site but I am waiting to have it approved)

My Deck:

https://www.keyforgegame.com/deck-details/24c49b9b-66f0-4d51-adc3-6a177959d246

Ah sorry about that, I'm kind of new to wordpress, didn't know I needed to approve comments, it should be there now.
I really like Phylyx, but I think that it falls into a different category of card and requires more set up than these other ones. Very solid aember denial plan, especially in conjunction with Grabber Jammers and such.

6 minutes ago, 10Ten said:

I haven't lost a game because of Bait and Switch. It's annoying, but plan ahead and you should be fine.

Yes, and Santa Claus really does come down the chimney ! Play against better players, guy

9 minutes ago, Dave Cordeiro said:

Bait and switch is good for sure, but is limited to one copy per deck, which is why I think Effervescen  t  gives chains (you can have many of them). That being said I'm fairly confident that Shatter Storm  is the most powerful aember swing in the game from the perspective of someone who just forged a key.

Most of the time I think that Bait and Switch is better than Shatter Storm, especially if you consider the houses they are in.

1 minute ago, Dimmu222 said:

Yes, and Santa Claus really does come down the chimney ! Play against better players, guy

Seems a trifle uncalled for there dontcha think Dim?

58 minutes ago, Dimmu222 said:

Yes, and Santa Claus really does come down the chimney ! Play against better players, guy

This is kind of a ridiculous comment. I have also never lost because of bait and switch. In fact I have never lost because of stealing. While I have lost games none were because the opponent played a bait and switch, and I've had some games where yes, it is a big swing losing 4 or more Æmber to it.

I have a deck with Bait and Switch, Faygin and three Urchins...I’m 3-8 with it because the rest of the deck is reasonable (sanctum) and straight up bad (mars). Bait and Switch does not win games on it’s own.

one of the games I did win, was because my opponent played an Ether Spider, that was fun 😊

Too powerful? Or the right powerful 😀

Depends on who is facing up against it I suppose. What I like about this card, is while it is good, it still takes some effort to get the most use out of it. I like to try and hold it until I forge a key, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. But playing it to steal only 2 aember always feels a little underwhelming. Some of the other options are a little more consistent or at least simple to execute. Still one of the best cards though.

Mimicry is a common enough card and a better one, because it can be a bait and switch if your opponent uses bait and switch.

It does feel bad to get B&S played on you because you really have no way to defend against it, if the person really wants to use it.

Bait and Switch is good but really overrated. A ton of hype but doesn't win games on its own, therefor not overpowered. It can be annoying but its best at delaying your opponent and needs help to win from there.