3 minutes ago, Phelan Boots said:

Ignoring the fact that you could take Predator and Heroic at the same time, if you so desired for some reason, Heroic has a chance of triggering on every attack or defense the ship makes during the game. When an A-Wing blanks out on defense it usually doesn’t last much longer. With an extra Talent slot, and only costing one point, if Heroic only triggers once, it’s earned its points.

This may be true, if it saves you its worth the point and with little to compete in ept slots it might just be worth it.

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

Juke+Heroic for the win on generics... maybe even Tallie, too.

I was coming in here just to mention that combo ~ Tallie with it seems fun

With Resistance Green Experts being the same 34 points as current Rebel A-Wings, who don't have the mobile arc or the 2nd Talent slot, yeah, I think Rebel A-Wing prices might come down.

//

Heroic is between 1/4th and 1/6th as good as Predator on 2 red dice. But it doesn't have arc restrictions, and works on every attack. It also provides a defensive benefit. On 3-green dice, 0.059 Evades without focus, 0.1 Evades with focus. That's between 1/6th and 1/5th as good as Elusive.

So it's a talent which is 1/5th the strength of Elusive, and 1/5th the strength of Predator. (3+2)/5 = 1. That's priced really fairly.

But it's also better than Elusive or Predator in that it can trigger on every single attack, and every single defense. You don't have only one charge per red move. You don't have to get a bullseye. Considering that I can also run Predator or Crack Shot on my A-Wings, I think that sounds OK.

//

On an X-Wing, Heroic is 1/3rd of Elusive on defense, but only 1/16th of Predator. But it'll work every time you need to defend. Three ships attack you? You'll get three triggers. I recall from an old thread that @DerRitter ran a sim, an X-Wing with Heroic or without defending against a single 3-red dice each turn. The Heroic X-Wing lasted, on average, an extra attack longer than the non-heroic X-Wing. It was like 5 vs 6 attacks without focus, or 7 vs 8 with focus.

For 1 point, live through 1 more attack.

That's really strong.

//

But Heroic is super deceptive. When you reroll that 4-dice X-Wing attack from full blank into a full crits, that'll really mess with your mind.

It does seem like they are trying to get Rebel Players to quit their faction and move to the Resistance.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

With Resistance Green Experts being the same 34 points as current Rebel A-Wings, who don't have the mobile arc or the 2nd Talent slot, yeah, I think Rebel A-Wing prices might come down.

32-33 I think for a Rebel green taking into account both the arc option on the Resistance green and the ability to tune the talent build in a way that off sets the loss of front arc attack dependent talents on the RZ-2.

Here's the other thing.

Tallie is 35 points. Add Heroic for 36. Cripes that's low . Zippy little Init 5 Arc dodger. She only has a pea-shooter, but she's only 36 points. There's probably a decent 3 T-70 + Tallie list to be made.

Nien, Ello, Tallie (all Heroic), and some 4th ship? That'd be 3x Init 5.

Kare Kun, Snap Wexley, Tallie (all Heroic), and a Black Ace? That'd leave 4 points for other upgrades, and a lot of decent Init 4 hitters in the X-Wings.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's the other thing.

Tallie is 35 points. Add Heroic for 36. Cripes that's low . Zippy little Init 5 Arc dodger. She only has a pea-shooter, but she's only 36 points. There's probably a decent 3 T-70 + Tallie list to be made.

Nien, Ello, Tallie (all Heroic), and some 4th ship? That'd be 3x Init 5.

Kare Kun, Snap Wexley, Tallie (all Heroic), and a Black Ace? That'd leave 4 points for other upgrades, and a lot of decent Init 4 hitters in the X-Wings.

14 hours ago, Icelom said:

I am betting on an a-wing i will trigger predator a lot more then heroic on offense... Ideally i never trigger it on defense, but maybe that is the decider.

Ideally.

But then, this card is essentially your "get out of jail free".

It's supposed to trigger only on the "oh stink" rolls.

Which may indeed make your day a little more bearable.

Although I agree about predator.

Especially if you've got Juke to boot.

I forget the name but I'm kinda liking the "You still get actions when you bump" pilot.

Fly aggressively, bump into an Ace or large ship, lock it, roll your guns to the rear them wait for them to fly past with a missile shot.

Or even when you find yourself blocked off, bump, roll away and boost past.

What EPTs would work best with this I'm not sure but still worth a look.

2 hours ago, Sonikgav said:

I forget the name but I'm kinda liking the "You still get actions when you bump" pilot.

Fly aggressively, bump into an Ace or large ship, lock it, roll your guns to the rear them wait for them to fly past with a missile shot.

Or even when you find yourself blocked off, bump, roll away and boost past.

What EPTs would work best with this I'm not sure but still worth a look.

Resistance A-wings can't shoot missiles out the booty (that's TIE/sf).

Also, when blocked by a small base ship, you could just boost past, flip your turret, and enjoy your free range 1 shot.

I'm thinking Intimidation would be a good talent for Tallie... bumping at I5 seems like a good way to guarantee something is in her bullseye arc and trigger her ability!

Oh well, at least half my plan works lol

I was actually thinking on this a lot last night, A-wings being my bread and butter, and Tallie being my crush of the century (sorry Sabine).

A few fun combos:

Juke/Crackshot - juke works out the rear arc. Crackshot/Juke for extra fun out the front!

Marksmanship/crackshot - crit goes through, fun times.

Marksmanship/Juke/Procket/Optics - Marks works on prockets. if you can get double green tokens juke works on it too. Then you can continue to double up juke/marks for the rest of the fight

Juke/Heroic - the safe 2 point upgrade for getting out of jail for free and still juking out the rear arc.

L'ulo is living proof that all of the people clamoring for initiative 5 and 3 red dice on the A-Wing were right all along. He's the real deal and is basically like a 1.0 Inquisitor, but for resistance. When I was testing with him, not once did I ever wish that he was instead, a low IV blocker with a Pea Shooter like so many claim that the A Wing should be.

Jake had better go down by at least 5 points come January along with the lot, but I believe that if one wants to fly A-Wings, the resistance will be the only actual choice. I really don't think anything besides support stands any chance at doing anything if it isn't IV 5 or greater and as such, the rebel As are kind of boned.

19 hours ago, Wiredin said:

for 1 point I'll take the free get out of jail card all day long. crack/heroic will most likely be my combo for now. I don't really see any other combos worth they points...

It's just sick.... for 50 points I can take Tallie, i5, with heroic, crackshot, prockets, F-Paint... or for 48 I can take Jake, i4, crackshot, prockets...

hardly seems fair lol

but point rebalance in January. I expect both RZ's to get reworks. no way 34 for i3 generic and 35 for Tallie is going to stay.

Agreed, that isn’t fair. Resistance A-Wings seem great, Rebel ones are utter crap.

Basically, what i always said. They need to reduce points and give them 2 i5 pilots. I nearly was stoned for saying that but it shows i was right and i can’t wait for January and for an expansion with new Rebel A-Pilots

5 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

L'ulo is living proof that all of the people clamoring for initiative 5 and 3 red dice on the A-Wing were right all along. He's the real deal and is basically like a 1.0 Inquisitor, but for resistance. When I was testing with him, not once did I ever wish that he was instead, a low IV blocker with a Pea Shooter like so many claim that the A Wing should be.

Jake had better go down by at least 5 points come January along with the lot, but I believe that if one wants to fly A-Wings, the resistance will be the only actual choice. I really don't think anything besides support stands any chance at doing anything if it isn't IV 5 or greater and as such, the rebel As are kind of boned.

for sure. the Resistance A-wing looks incredibly fun on paper and much superior to the RZ1. I'm not as upset as I originally was that none of the core chassis stats were buffed. That rear arc is actually a huge buff and pretty impressive when you realize things like Juke work with it.

There is no way RZ1's and even the RZ2 generics don't get a price juggle. We got some strange point setups right now.

both i3's are 34 points. Tallie is 35. L'ulo is 38. Jake is 40. Jakes ability, while pretty great and still serviceable at i4, is not worth 40 points when you can take an RZ2 i5 for 5 points less, even with a worse ability.

7 minutes ago, ForceM said:

Agreed, that isn’t fair. Resistance A-Wings seem great, Rebel ones are utter crap.

Basically, what i always said. They need to reduce points and give them 2 i5 pilots. I nearly was stoned for saying that but it shows i was right and i can’t wait for January and for an expansion with new Rebel A-Pilots

it isn't fair...yet!

may be hope that FFG was looking at the A-wing and being all "you know...this **** ain't pulling its weight and we got this hype new faction coming out with something real similar...yeah, let's just preemptively notch the points down and get back to the rebels once we adjust the points for all the other factions"

17 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

With Resistance Green Experts being the same 34 points as current Rebel A-Wings, who don't have the mobile arc or the 2nd Talent slot, yeah, I think Rebel A-Wing prices might come down.

//

Heroic is between 1/4th and 1/6th as good as Predator on 2 red dice. But it doesn't have arc restrictions, and works on every attack. It also provides a defensive benefit. On 3-green dice, 0.059 Evades without focus, 0.1 Evades with focus. That's between 1/6th and 1/5th as good as Elusive.

So it's a talent which is 1/5th the strength of Elusive, and 1/5th the strength of Predator. (3+2)/5 = 1. That's priced really fairly.

But it's also better than Elusive or Predator in that it can trigger on every single attack, and every single defense. You don't have only one charge per red move. You don't have to get a bullseye. Considering that I can also run Predator or Crack Shot on my A-Wings, I think that sounds OK.

//

On an X-Wing, Heroic is 1/3rd of Elusive on defense, but only 1/16th of Predator. But it'll work every time you need to defend. Three ships attack you? You'll get three triggers. I recall from an old thread that @DerRitter ran a sim, an X-Wing with Heroic or without defending against a single 3-red dice each turn. The Heroic X-Wing lasted, on average, an extra attack longer than the non-heroic X-Wing. It was like 5 vs 6 attacks without focus, or 7 vs 8 with focus.

For 1 point, live through 1 more attack.

That's really strong.

//

But Heroic is super deceptive. When you reroll that 4-dice X-Wing attack from full blank into a full crits, that'll really mess with your mind.

I was just lookong for that topic. For 1 point being able to (in average) live 1 attack longer i think is great. If it costed 2 or 3 pts it would be bad. But comparing to other 1pt epts i guess is a good choice (For now)

9 minutes ago, DerRitter said:

I was just lookong for that topic. For 1 point being able to (in average) live 1 attack longer i think is great. If it costed 2 or 3 pts it would be bad. But comparing to other 1pt epts i guess is a good choice (For now)

Shhh don't try to convince them otherwise. Hope and pray that all of your opponents put predator on their RZ-2s. Do you really want your enemies to have a continuous get out of jail free card or would you rather them have a pricier EPT that basically doesn't trigger ever? Predator is a trap, regardless of what the math says because there are no numbers to plug for bullseye.

2 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

Shhh don't try to convince them otherwise. Hope and pray that all of your opponents put predator on their RZ-2s. Do you really want your enemies to have a continuous get out of jail free card or would you rather them have a pricier EPT that basically doesn't trigger ever? Predator is a trap, regardless of what the math says because there are no numbers to plug for bullseye.

oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks Predator is a trap.

16 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

oh good, I'm not the only one who thinks Predator is a trap.

And if people want to talk math, then mathematically putting M9-G8 on your least threatening T-70 and then just slapping that lock onto L'ulo is better for the points. You're paying 2 for the tiny bullseye (which you won't get because you're not Soontir) or 7 for the entire arc. For 5 points more, I'd rather have a reroll that can actually be used in the game consistently.

Edit: I just realized that there actually is math to determine the efficiency of predator vs M9-G8. All one would have to do is compare the area of the bullyseye to the area of the full arc. I have a BA, not a BS, so someone else will have to figure it out though.

Edit 2: Just found the math that space owls did. When it comes down to M9-G8 vs Predator, you are paying only 5 points more for 82% more rerolls. As it works out, you are paying 1 point per 9% chance of reroll with predator versus 1 point per 14.28% chance of reroll with M9-G8. If you can fit M9-G8 in your list, it is objectively better than predator for helping L'ulo.

12 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

Shhh don't try to convince them otherwise. Hope and pray that all of your opponents put predator on their RZ-2s. Do you really want your enemies to have a continuous get out of jail free card or would you rather them have a pricier EPT that basically doesn't trigger ever? Predator is a trap, regardless of what the math says because there are no numbers to plug for bullseye.

Predator might be OK... as the 2nd Talent. But on a ship as squishy as the A-Wing, I'm kinda thinking Crack Shot. It's like predator, but Frontloaded. It still takes like 2 Predator attacks to get the same value as one Crack Shot, at twice the price.

8 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Predator might be OK... as the 2nd Talent. But on a ship as squishy as the A-Wing, I'm kinda thinking Crack Shot. It's like predator, but Frontloaded. It still takes like 2 Predator attacks to get the same value as one Crack Shot, at twice the price.

that is exactly why I always took CS on my RZ1s instead of pred.

19 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

How many times does a 1pt EPT have to add or prevent damage to be worth it? I mean, EPT's right now are a pile of hot garbage, so I'd rank this as easily the best.

More than once. Both Crack Shot and Heroic are kinda bad, unfortunately (which makes me super sad, because I love the idea of heroic). I absolutely love Trick Shot on certain ships though, I usually get 2-3 dice per game from it which amounts to upwards of 2 extra damage after mods.

I kinda wish FFG gave us the bad faction EPTs (Ruthless and Heroic) for free. Having them as an "it's there if you ever need it" without having to put points in them would actually be a really nice theme thing.

18 minutes ago, ThinkingB said:

And if people want to talk math, then mathematically putting M9-G8 on your least threatening T-70 and then just slapping that lock onto L'ulo is better for the points. You're paying 2 for the tiny bullseye (which you won't get because you're not Soontir) or 7 for the entire arc. For 5 points more, I'd rather have a reroll that can actually be used in the game consistently.

Edit: I just realized that there actually is math to determine the efficiency of predator vs M9-G8. All one would have to do is compare the area of the bullyseye to the area of the full arc. I have a BA, not a BS, so someone else will have to figure it out though.

Edit 2: Just found the math that space owls did. When it comes down to M9-G8 vs Predator, you are paying only 5 points more for 82% more rerolls. As it works out, you are paying 1 point per 9% chance of reroll with predator versus 1 point per 14.28% chance of reroll with M9-G8. If you can fit M9-G8 in your list, it is objectively better than predator for helping L'ulo.

Eh...

Predator is going to trigger a lot less than M9-G8, but I think there are issues with just comparing areas covered by bullseye vs regular arcs, and using that ratio. Ships in X-Wing aren't randomly placed, and movement actions should also be taken into account.

The extreme case is Soontir Fel. He clearly is able to activate his bullseye arc far more often than merely coverage area would suggest. A-Wings are going to be somewhere in the middle.

//

I'm still putting Heroic as my #1 pick, though. It's basically 1/5th the mathematical effectiveness as Predator+Elusive, Lone Wolf, but without position requirements, and with unlimited charges, for 1 point, compared to 4-5 for the others.